United777
Topic Author
Posts: 2196
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 8:04 am

Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:10 pm

Why does it seem like Northwest Airlines has the oldest fleet out of all the other major US airlines such as UA, AA, CO and DL? In the mid to late 90's it seemed like all the major US airlines were re-newing the fleet and retiring the old aircraft. UA, AA, CO and DL all ordered the 777-200/-200ER and new 737NG, 767s and 757s.

I know NWA has a lot of Airbus and Boeing airplanes on order from the 757-300 and Airbus A320 family and the A330-300. It still seems like it going to be so many years until NWA fleet looks as new as the other major airlines. Is it because NWA has a bigger fleet?

When does NWA plan to retire all of it's DC-10's and 747-classics?
 
United777
Topic Author
Posts: 2196
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 8:04 am

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:22 pm

Just wondering when does NWA plan to retire there DC-10, DC-9 and 747-200'S. After that I think NWA will have a pretty good fleet with a mixture of Boeing and Airbus in it.

http://ir.nwa.com/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=NWAC&script=11906&layout=7&item_id='fleet.htm'
 
Airbus Lover
Posts: 3163
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2000 10:29 pm

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:30 pm

Here comes our weekly Northwest fleet replacement topic  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
United777
Topic Author
Posts: 2196
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 8:04 am

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:33 pm

lol-Has there been a lot of topic already on Northwest Airlines fleet replacment.  Laugh out loud  Smile I just want to know when they get rid of the 747-200's and DC-10's since they fly them to SEA a lot.
 
keesje
Posts: 8745
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Tue Mar 04, 2003 5:29 pm

hello folks

Northwest having large fleets of old DC9, DC10's made them a winner for the last few yrs.

After 9-11 they parked financially totally written of DC9's while other had to do the same with brand new Airbusses.

The cost of having/operating the old fleet is very low. NWA thought punctual flights, new cabins & cheap ticket were more important.
















"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
NewSwissair
Posts: 278
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2001 1:46 am

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Tue Mar 04, 2003 7:00 pm

Can anybody list up the whole NW fleet? Any whcih aircraft do they have on order? Thanks.
 
dragogoalie
Posts: 1172
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 3:58 pm

Re:

Tue Mar 04, 2003 7:37 pm

I used to be critical of NWA's old fleet, but one must also point out that they do have an amazing saftey record. If its still working, why get rid of it? I've been flying NWA a lot in recent years, and the closest thing to an emergency that I've had was when we landed in MSP in a DC-9, and upon arrival at the gate, they couldent get the cockpit door open to let the pilots out  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

--dragogoalie-#88--
Formerly known as Jap. Srsly. AUSTRALIA: 2 days!
 
nwa747-400
Posts: 1325
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 2:54 am

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Tue Mar 04, 2003 7:57 pm

Northwest is one of the most conservative airlines when it comes to fleet renewal. They are very good at flying aircraft up until the end of their economic lives. For example, the DC10-40s and 727-200s have now been retired because they no longer made economic sense for the airline to operate.

Northwest is not interested in boasting "the youngest fleet" as some airlines are. What is important to Nortwest is to operate a safe, reliable airline with a conservative cost structure.

Plus, an NW DC9 is in much better shape than many of 737s flying around the country.

The fleet (including orders) can be found at:

http://ir.nwa.com/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=NWAC&script=11906&layout=7&item_id='fleet.htm'

------------------------------------------
Now more than ever, FLY THE RED TAILS!!!
 
Airbus Lover
Posts: 3163
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2000 10:29 pm

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Tue Mar 04, 2003 8:24 pm

Totally agree with Keesje and Nwa747-400
 
b727
Posts: 464
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 3:19 am

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Tue Mar 04, 2003 10:25 pm

I think that it is great that NWA is using their aircraft to its fullest. Also when they do replace the fleet, they will then have the newest fleet in the (US) industry. Way to go NWA I wish USAIR and UNITED could have followed the example of NWA.


B727

Glenn
 
Guest

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Wed Mar 05, 2003 6:05 pm

The A330-200/300 will replace the DC-10 on International segments beginning this fall and concluding in late 2004/early 2005 (but deliveries of the 24 A330 will continue via 2006). Presently, the plan is to keep about a dozen DC-10 aircraft in the fleet for many years serving Hawaii and other high-density domestic routes. But there’s speculation “from the inside” that B753 will be replace the DC-10 to Hawaii (and perhaps an A332 from MSP-HNL) and thus the DC-10 will be flushed from NW’s fleet within a few years.

No replacement fleet types have been selected for the DC-9 or B742. However, NW is exploring its options for the DC-9 and deciding between the A346, B773 or B744 for the B742. Given that the A319 are replacing many short-distance DC-9 flights from DTW (e.g. DTW-LGA, EWR, DCA, etc.) and NW’s interest in increasing the number of fight banks at MEM, it’s quite possible that a combination of RJ and A319 will replace the DC-9. I’d put my money on the A346 to replace the B742 – given that NW’s price sensitive (the A346 could be acquired for significantly less than the B773); NW’s invested significant amounts of money in Airbus maintenance facilities; and the A346 is common with the A330.

Presently, the emphasis is being placed on replacing fleet types that will provide huge benefits – e.g. RJs are replacing Torture Props, A319/A320 the B727, B752/B753 the DC-10-40, A332/A333 the DC-10-30, etc. Even though it could be considered a buyer’s market right now, I expect NW to hold off purchasing new aircraft until the present situation (repressed economy, the possibility of UA’s liquidation, etc.)

Also, to address earlier comments, NW DID initiate a fleet renewal with the rest of the majors in the late 80s – A320 were to replace the B727, A342 the DC-10 and B744 the B742 (a decision would be made later on the DC-9 replacement – probably the A319 eventually). However, NW came close to bankruptcy and cancelled all of their orders. Since then, they’ve returned to financial salability but have invested their money in other projects (e.g. paying off loans, the pilots strike of 1998, being the primary financer of updated/new facilities at MSP and DTW, etc.) Yet NW did place fleet renewal orders during the mid-to-late 90s; the orders were spread out, however. NW will be the only major carrier accepting significant delivery of new planes over the next several years.

In the mean time, NW’s poured money into renovating their DC-9s, older A320 and B752, DC-10 and B742 aircraft – every plane is in respectable condition. Personally, I find it insulting when some teenage who’s only annual (or bi-annual?) plane trip comes on his families vacation to Disney World puts down NWA. Overall, it’s a highly respectable airline.
 
na
Posts: 9153
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Wed Mar 05, 2003 6:56 pm

Adding to that, NWA reports a traffic increase of 7,4% in January compared to 1/2002. Only on the Atlantic routes the load factor is down.
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8004
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:07 am

I'll say this: if UA does collapse expect NW to snap up a lot of the UA 747-400 fleet in a blink of an eye. That solves the 747-200 replacement market right there and NW can use it for expanded transpacific flights--and possibly some transatlantic flights, too.
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3380
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 2:03 am

Ip - from Richard Andersons mouth... the 757 will not be ETOPS certified.
I also find it hard to believe NW will continue with the "we're keeping 12 DC10-30s around for HNL and high density domestic flying" plan. High fuel burn, 3 salaries upfront, over capasity in the market place, all post 9/11 probably will require this pre 9/11 plan to be re-evaluated.



AZJ
 
NWA ARJ
Posts: 481
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 9:54 am

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:06 am

Even though their fleet may be old compared to other airlines I do not see them in as much financial trouble as UA or AA.
Nightmare 68, Fargo Tower, Runway 36, Fly Runway Heading, Mantain 10,000, Cleared For Takeoff, Change To Departure
 
NWA
Posts: 1162
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2001 2:31 am

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:18 am

I just wish NW would get some 777's. :-( I like flying on the older planes. they are proven, and they wont be around much longer. They seem safer to me. not the start a war, but I fell so much better on a 727 than a A320, but I fell darn safe on both of them anyways. none the less, NW is is fair $ situation because of the older fleet. Go NW!
23 victor, turn right heading 210, maintain 3000 till established, cleared ILS runwy 24.
 
Continental
Posts: 5222
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:51 am

I remember posting a topic on the DC-9s once, Embarrassment Anyway, the DC-9s are being replaced slowly, and I don't know what is with the A330 orders now, I have a feeling they'll be around for QUITE some time!

Continental
 
notam-j
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 4:10 pm

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:56 am

Why does it seem like Northwest Airlines has the oldest fleet out of all the other major US airlines...?

Because they do. Among U.S. majors, NW has the highest average aircraft age of over 20 years. However, it seems that they are currently having less financial trouble than some carriers with younger fleets.

http://www.msnbc.com/modules/interactive.asp?id=/news/wld/business/brill/airline_compare_03.htm
If only I had a nickel for every Boeing vs Airbus posting...
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 7:12 am

UA and AA might have got themselves a nice new fleet of aircraft, but gee they won't look so nice parked in the desert waiting for buyers when UA goes belly up and AA follows unless they turn themselves around.

Give NW a break, isn't it great to see a variety of aircraft still in the air? Where else can you see DC-9s and DC-10s these days still in pax configuration?
 
MidnightMike
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:07 am

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:32 am


Oh sure, new planes ar epretty, but hell the 717 is over 20% more fuel efficient to fly than the DC9. With the rising fuel prices
that sure would have come in handy right about now.
NO URLS in signature
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3380
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:51 am

Fuel economy isn't the only cost factor in the daily operations of an airline. The Dc9s are paid for -and cost only $1900/block hour to operate. NW was smart and hedged most of the 2003 fuel - so they aren't paying inflated prices. Put those points together with already lower operating costs because of diligent cost cutting pre and opst 9/11 and it makes PURE sense to be still operating the Dc9s. They're one of if not the most reliable fleet type in the fleet and all have very new interiors.



AZJ
 
hammer
Posts: 638
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 9:02 am

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 3:14 pm

why would NWA go and spend billions of dollars on replacing the DC-9 fleet with 717? That would not be a smart move. The DC-9's are paid for...
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Thu Mar 06, 2003 3:39 pm

I can think of a list of reasons... fuel economy, skyrocketing maintenance costs as the frames continue to age, airframe life, etc.

N
 
GARUDAROD
Posts: 1136
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 4:39 am

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Fri Mar 07, 2003 2:45 am


A point that doesnt seem to come up with NW to get some of the
UA B744's, is that a couple of the aircraft were actually built for NWA
but they deferred them so Boeing sold them to UA. NW would be getting
back some of its original equipment.
As has been mentioned many times, NW spent a lot of money on the
DC9 fleet to update them. When those aircraft went into the shops,
the airframes were basically zeroed out, so they have a long life
left in them. I would say that NWA is probably in the best financial
shape of any of the majors...and wont lose $$$$Millions more trying
to set up a LLC like Song or "Project Starfish"
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
sllevin
Posts: 3312
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Fri Mar 07, 2003 3:18 am

If the 717's only 20-30 percent more fuel than the DC-9, given the mammoth costs of buying new airplanes, NW would be foolish to give up it's DC-9's until Stage IV forces them to do so. Picture that the payments on a 717 would probably be hundreds of thousands of dollars per month -- probably a lot more than the cost in fuel for each DC-9 now.

I, for one, am glad to see at least one airline less interested in "ego" and more interested in "making money" since they have all sucked down my tax dollars since 9/11 in one form or another. I'd like to think that money went to keeping people employed, not boosting anyone's ego for having a "new fleet."

Steve
 
penguinflies
Posts: 932
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 12:00 pm

RE: Northwest Airlines Old Aircraft Fleet?

Thu Mar 13, 2003 3:05 am

I flew on a NW DC-9 today and I was amazed how good looking the plane is. If not for the leg room I would become a loyal NW customer. The staff was much more helpful than my dealings with STL AA/TWA staff. Everyone was cheery for 6am and the DC-9 had the new 717 interior. Everything was clean white with royal blue cloth seats. Only question..are those seats in the DC-9 those slim line seats. They seemed to be not as cushioned. I was on a DC-9 30 with 80 available seats in the main cabin and 16 first class.