TR
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Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Thu Mar 06, 2003 5:51 pm

Danish travel news magazine TakeOff reports Richard Branson has confirmed that Virgin Atlantic was to buy two Corcordes from Air France. The deal however has not yet been completed. I have searched this forum but not been able to find any further info regarding this. Anyone with more knowledge regarding these purchase plans?

I can imagine a stunning seating and comfort configuration of a Virgin Concorde  Wow!

http://www.takeoff.nu
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:06 pm

Oh whatever  Insane

Branson has been after AF Concordes for years (if not decades now)... and with only 5 left in the fleet, I hardly think they're going to "give" one to him.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
GDB
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:24 pm

Branson hype, this idea never got far, as Concordeboy says, no spare aircraft now
.
Just last week Branson said if BA stop running the aircraft, he'd want some, BA replied that the fleet have all been allocated to museums, (they probably were years ago), they added that letting him have them would be like 'running a formula 1 car in a backstreet garage'.
Not as mean minded as it sounds, VS would have to take on Concorde flight crew, engineers and a heap of spares and support, very expensive stuff.

However, if BA were to dump the aircraft before AF, unlikely as that is, if Branson were to get some, he'd need staff, I and most of my colleagues would go, I may not like Branson much, but many of us in BA are fed up with all the bullshitters we have to deal with.

We used to be loyal to both BA and the aircraft, now it's just the aircraft, this is for a whole range of issues, mostly not directly Concorde related, we don't have a problem with BA's CEO, just the vast army of self-justifying and useless management between him and us.
We'd have decent facilities too!

But this is all very unlikely, whenever BA makes the news for negative reasons, Branson has to have his say, even when it's a probable non-story like this.
 
backfire
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Thu Mar 06, 2003 7:40 pm

I hardly think they're going to "give" one to him

Don't see why not. They were practically given to Air France.
 
Alessandro
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:01 pm

All for the publicity, Branson know that AF/BA won´t sell to another airline so
he get free publicity. Clever....
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
Shamrock_747
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Thu Mar 06, 2003 9:03 pm

I wouldn't be suprised if Branson does manage to start flying Concorde under the Virgin banner after BA withdraw the aircraft, whenever that may be.

He has more than enough money to buy the whole operation, give the BA staff enough money to stay on and give the museums large amounts of cash to compensate for not recieving Concorde after BA withdrawl.

However, he may not want to take such a huge financial risk.

Shamrock_747
 
GDB
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Thu Mar 06, 2003 9:33 pm

The problem with that is the fleet would be near to needing very extensive scheduled Major checks, then a re-life programme to take them beyond 2009, no way will he finance that.
 
trintocan
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Fri Mar 07, 2003 4:18 am

Honestly, it is highly unlikely that any airline - VS or otherwise - would purchase Concordes off either BA or AF. Notwithstanding the issues of pride involved where the 2 flag-carriers are concerned, there remains of course the issue of taking over practically an entire operation. Unlike, say, buying 777s or A320s from either airline - where manufacturer support, crew training etc. are readily available - to fly Concorde would require extensive crew training, purchasing of spares' stocks, maintenance equipment and all that - not a cheap venture by any means. To entice crew from either airline to go across too would also be costly - they could demand (and get) any sort of salary they wanted because their skills are at a premium.

Altogether in these difficult times that is a fatal idea for VS.

TrintoCan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
Leezyjet
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Fri Mar 07, 2003 4:22 am

That was old news, he tried to get an AF Concorde at least 5 years ago if not longer, although he has said recently that he is still interested.

Also Fed-Ex have tried to get hold of them in the past too to operate express freight services - like the Russians did with the Tu-144.

I hear that he has a model of a Concorde in VS colours on his desk in the Holland Park Office, though not sure if that is just an Urban Legend.

( Just for interest, one of the VS engineers retired a few weeks ago. He had said that his favorite a/c to work on was the 777, so as a leaving present they had a picture painted of a 777 in the VS colour scheme for him. )

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
aamd11
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Fri Mar 07, 2003 5:07 am

I dont think any other airlines should be allowed to op. the a/c once BA and AF pack it in for good.
They should go to museums, not to another airline.
Branson would love to do it, all the prestige in operating Condorde.
I dont think they should allow it.
BA and AF are the only Concorde operators in the world, thats symbolic of the aircraft; dont let someone else get their fingers in the pie!

A^A MD-11
 
aussiestu
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Fri Mar 07, 2003 5:28 am

I truelly do not believe that either AF or BA would allow Richard Branson to operate Concord. He has tried this before and it failed and this is probably just another news headline that he is heading for. I definitely think that BA would spend its last penny to ensure that he did not get his hands on any Concord. Long may she rule the skies but not in a VS colour scheme!
 
Sukhoi
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Fri Mar 07, 2003 5:37 am

Have to agree with Leezyjet on this one very old news indeed on the AF Concorde story.

VS looked very closely at the 777 a year or so ago  Wink/being sarcastic

Paul
 
AFa340-300E
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Fri Mar 07, 2003 5:56 am

Hello,

There was actually an RFP sent by Virgin to Air France in October 1994. But it was not serious... If Virgin could have operated a Concorde on LHR-JFK for a week he would have done it, but he never intended to 'operate' the airplane. Trust me, that's reliable info.


Best regards,
Alain Mengus
Air Transport Business [ATB]
 
G-CIVP
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Fri Mar 07, 2003 6:33 am

Is there any validity to the story that BA were going to ditch Concorde in 2004? I've heard so many rumours, I don't know what is true, half true or false.....
 
GDB
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:36 am

G-CIVP, here is a recent thread on this subject;
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1033166/

Loads are up and down at the moment, on Wednesday 6th March, both flights were dismal, the BA001 (G-BOAG) had 26 pax, of which 16 were full fare, the BA002 just 20, 14 were full fare.
But the next day Thursday 6th March, the BA001 (OAG again) had 95 pax, 73 were full fare, including UK Foreign Secretary Jack Straw off to the UN (he's used Concorde quite a bit for this recently).
The BA002 had 64 pax, 61 were full fare, delayed due the weather at JFK, which has cancelled quite a few flights tonight.
So today's BA001/002 made very good profits, and more than made up for the previous day, which was unusually bad, even allowing for this being a lean time of year historically on the aircraft.
 
VS11
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:23 pm

The idea of Virgin Atlantic Concordes now does not seem so strange because in the first place Virgin would not buy the Concordes but only lease them, which means lesser financial exposure, and in view of BA willing to retire them earlier than expected, less competition as at some point Virgin may be the only operator from the UK, and if Air France retires them earlier as well then Virgin would be the only operator of the Concorde, which would not be bad at all.
Also, when you think about it, if BA and AF decide to retire the Concordes earlier than expected but still within the life of the aircraft, then by leasing them they would be getting money rather than just giving them away to museums where the Concordes will eventually end up anyway.
And on the fun side, remember how Virgin Atlantic started in the first place - Sir Richard leased one B747 for one year and things worked well so they continued the lease, so why would not that happen with the Concorde - lease one for one year, if things work well or at least not very bad then they could extend the lease. And for the user who said that the Concorde has been exclusively BA or AF - that is not true. Singapore Airlines for one thing has leased the Concorde, and at least one American carrier, I believe did the same - Braniff, although I could be wrong about Braniff.
By the way how is non-revving on the Concorde? Last time I checked ID90s were sold for $660 one way JFK-LHR, and I am still considering it.

Regards,

VS11
 
GDB
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Fri Mar 07, 2003 6:52 pm

SIA did not lease a Concorde, G-BOAD was operated by BA, 3 of the FA's were SIA, one side of the A/C was painted in SIA livery, that's about it.
Braniff also did not 'operate' Concorde, in both cases the aircraft were fully operational with the owners, that would not be the case with a VS Concorde, and believe me, just leasing a Concorde is not just like doing the same with a 747.
I'm not totally ruling it out, but it is most unlikely, it sounds a lot like Branson just mouthing off to the press as usual.
As for ID90's, they are happening, the price you quote sounds about right.

 
gkirk
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Fri Mar 07, 2003 7:07 pm

Bring Concorde back into production!!!  Big thumbs up
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
vc10
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Fri Mar 07, 2003 11:47 pm

GDB,
When Concorde was operated to Singapore, the Flight deck crew were always from BA, but the cabin crew alternated between sectors, so one sector BA cabin crew, the next sector Singapore airlines cabin crew.
Braniff did operate the Concorde between Washington and Dallas. The aircraft were nominally sold to them at Washington and sold back to BA or Air France on their return. Braniff used their own Flight Deck crews, and their own Cabin crews. As their route was all over land they only ever flew the aircraft subsonic and in fact they were not given any training for supersonic flight
regards little vc10
 
9v-svc
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sat Mar 08, 2003 12:23 am

Wow ? VS livery on Concorde ? That is a shocker .


If that news is true , I cant wait to see the aircraft .

Airliners is the wings of my life.
 
BA777
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sat Mar 08, 2003 6:17 am

Would the VS Livery on the concorde be possible? I mean wouldnt the silvery colour absorb heat, like the space shuttles tiles being black, black paint absorbs heat right?

BA777
 
aamd11
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sat Mar 08, 2003 6:26 am

Braniff used their own Flight Deck crews, and their own Cabin crews

I didnt think anyone but AF and BA crews could fly Concorde.
Did they really have their own flight crews?!

Would the VS Livery on the concorde be possible?
For it to be operated as it is today, the best paint to use is white.
Reflects off most heat, if you were to paint it say, Blue (ala Air France CONC in PEPSI colours) you can only fly at M1.7 (not M2 as normal) to reduce effects of absorbed heat on the airframe.

As for VS flying them, i wouldnt let them lease one, let alone buy a fleet of them.
If BA and AF are to retire them soon (i hope not, havent flown one yet and i'd really like to) i think it's best that they get put to rest, they have operated them between them since it was launched, and it should end that way, the two flag carriers of the two nations that accomplished the creation of the world's finest passanger aircract!

A^A MD-11
 
carduelis
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sat Mar 08, 2003 6:49 am

Let's get it straight - Branson is more full of bull than anybody around including various rather senior polititans in US and UK!

He will NEVER be able to touch Concorde, let alone operate the graceful, noble, and only supersonic commercial passenger aircraft in the world!

Branson is, and always will be, full of hype and crap! VS suits him!

Concorde will ALWAYS be THE a/c of BA and AF!

Got it?

If you want to play hypothesis, and live in a dream world, it is up to you, but for the benefit of knwledgeable people around - please get REAL!
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
Thrawn
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sat Mar 08, 2003 7:46 am

So what is wrong with Virgin leasing and flying concorde?
Virgin over the years have been a revolution in air travel, if it was'nt for there innovative approach to the airline industry where would it be today? it certainly woke BA and others up and about time to.

Lets get away from those of you who see concorde as purely BA/AF property, wouldn't you rather see concorde flying even if it was in Virgins colours, at least they might have the balls to turn into a profitable operation again.
Concorde is still a beautiful aircraft in the sky and deserves to be flying not stuck in a museum. its only the beancounters who want to retire her as she isnt making as much profit as she used.

As for Carduelis you most be a Nigel as you are so puffed up with your own BA importance you seem to think of Virgin as a naughty schoolboy who deserves a clip around the ear for daring to speak!!!!!! I think you are the one to get real and wake up to the real world. I challenge you Carduelis to come up with honest a viable account to why Virgin couldn't operate Concorde?

Yes Branson is full of hype at times but you have to give him some credit, Virgin is still around after years of BA trying to run it into the ground like it did Laker,BCal,Dan Air.

I do remember a concorde in Virgin colours once, the one at the entrance to LHR was turned into a Virgin scheme, at the launch of Virgin at LHR, BA were not amused. Funniest thing to happen there in years.




 
777236ER
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sat Mar 08, 2003 8:00 am

So what is wrong with Virgin leasing and flying concorde?

LEASING?

it certainly woke BA and others up and about time to.

It woke BA up in the sense that it was another trans-Atlantic carrier. It wasn't particularly revolutionary. The Branson-lustre has worn off now and it's just another airline.

at least they might have the balls to turn into a profitable operation again

BA Concordes cover most of their costs, if not all. Considering Branson would need to cover the HUGE initial investment of aquiring the Concordes and the maintence facilities (and staff), perform lots of expensive work on the fleet, train crews, somehow ween all the corporate contracts from BA, convince the public that while BA are saying the planes are too old to fly they're actually not and they're perfectly safe, they're already alocated to museums, Branson would have to coordinate with BA and AF regarding spares and so on and so on, I doubt it's actually going to happen.

Concorde is still a beautiful aircraft in the sky and deserves to be flying not stuck in a museum. its only the beancounters who want to retire her as she isnt making as much profit as she used.

If you think Branson started Virgin merely for the joy of flight, think again. He won't fly Concorde if he won't make money.

I challenge you Carduelis to come up with honest a viable account to why Virgin couldn't operate Concorde?

Because they're BA and AF aircraft...

Virgin is still around after years of BA trying to run it into the ground like it did Laker,BCal,Dan Air.

Yeah, as the "flag carrier" that only flies to the most profittable locations using O'Learly style marketing (4 engines 4 longhaul? Please.) only to a lesser degree of success.  Insane
Your bone's got a little machine
 
aamd11
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sat Mar 08, 2003 8:25 am

Well said 777236ER, especially the last part.

Branson would have to buy the entire operation, including the hundreds of support staff (flight, cabin, maintainance crews), unless he was to buy the aircraft, and contract MX out to BA or AF.. it's going to cost him millions (if not billions) to buy the ENTIRE operation... spares dont come cheap, or easily, it is an entire new type to add to the fleet.
It wouldnt be easy to integrate Concorde into the VS fleet, and it would be a while from purchase to actually flying... lost time is no money earned, but spent..
its by no means a simple step, and it probably wont happen.
The risk is too great, one wrong move, and he will be at a loss.

A^A MD-11
 
Thrawn
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sat Mar 08, 2003 8:31 am

LEASING?

Who said anything about having to buy them anyway plenty of airlines don't own there own aircraft/train crews/have maintence facilities etc. You don't have to own an aircraft to operate it. As i remember AF looked on the project of Virgin taking out a LEASE on there concordes but BA put a stop to it.....

woke BA up in the sense that it was another trans-Atlantic carrier

Not just another Transatlantic carrier they are a world leader in innovation look how much other carriers have had to respond with there product, to better Virgin and yes some are doing that now.

Because they're BA and AF aircraft...

What sought of answer is that another Nigel in the making i fear!!!!!!!

Yeah, as the "flag carrier" that only flies to the most profittable locations using O'Learly style marketing (4 engines 4 longhaul? Please.) only to a lesser degree of success.

Now if VS or BM had the access to LHR that BA has then they might be able to expand there route structure and make a far better job of what our supposed flag carrier (yes the same one that wasted all that money on painting the tails on the aircraft different so as to get away from its british image) can do. Im for open skies its about time there was some real competition at LHR. How will BA fare now that they don't have much more to sell.

I would like to see the major British airlines survive this year, know matter what they operate, remember British airlines don't have Chapter 11 protection


 
donder10
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sat Mar 08, 2003 8:44 am

Now if VS or BM had the access to LHR that BA has then they might be able to expand there route structure and make a far better job of what our supposed flag carrier (yes the same one that wasted all that money on painting the tails on the aircraft different so as to get away from its british image) can do. Im for open skies its about time there was some real competition at LHR. How will BA fare now that they don't have much more to sell.

The idea of BM running an operation better than BA makes me smile=>  Smile
BM is single-handedly wrecking itself right now.BA also happens to have one of the best international reputations of any airline.
 
GDB
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sat Mar 08, 2003 9:37 am

Thanks for the clarification vc-10, BA777, G-BOAD had SIA titles on the port side, just the titles, cheatline and tail livery, but otherwise all white, it would have been removed by 1981, the LHR-BAH-SIN sectors ended in 1980.
 
GDB
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sat Mar 08, 2003 9:46 am

A pic of G-BOAD with the SIA titles;
http://www.concordesst.com/pictures/gboad6.jpg
 
AvObserver
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sat Mar 08, 2003 9:57 am

GKirk says...
"Bring Concorde back into production!!!"

What a wonderful, lusting, romantic notion! It's sad it's so at odds with the bitter reality that, regardless of the extraordinary engineering achievement it was and will always be, Concorde was an economic boondoggle kept aloft only by national pride. Talks of a Concorde successor will probably remain just that-in the real world, where R&D costs would not be written off, an SST can't be profitable. Airlines couldn't even justify a transonic airplane with 767-like economics so how could they again go for one with drastically steep cost penalties. This is not a swipe at Britain & France for trying and succeeding (albeit in the operational sense, only) with an SST. The U.S. Boeing 2707 SST, had it flown, would also have failed economically, despite having better proposed economics than Concorde (owing to much larger capacity). There's just no room, for now, in the cost driven world of commercial aviation for high speed. I, too, shed a tear as I say this. Concorde was such a beautiful vision!
 
GDB
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sat Mar 08, 2003 10:16 am

Yes, for a start the production equipment was broken up, as BA found to their cost when they wanted new rudders 10 years ago.
But the 2707 would not have had much more range, would have been a lot nosier on take off (imagine!) and a lot tougher to operate, with the Mach 2.7 speed, when I think of the work Concorde's environmental system, and intake systems have to do, the thought of the titanium B2707 makes me shudder!
(Aluminum melts at Mach 2.6, hence the difficult, expensive titanium of the B2707).
In many ways it would have been a lot more complex an aircraft, so the operating costs would have been a lot higher.
I'm referring to the final tailed delta -300, not the earlier swing-wing proposals, even Boeing realized they were a non-starter.
For all the broken dreams, Concorde's speed was Mach 2.02 for very good reasons.
 
ArgInMIA
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sat Mar 08, 2003 10:39 am

What's the biggest cost of producing a new aircraft? Developing? What about a revamped Concorde? Like a ConcordeNG? I mean.. I'm sure they have the blueprints... And with newer technology I'm sure they can make it more economic to operate
Alto.. Mucho mas alto.. hasta la cumbre
 
aamd11
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sat Mar 08, 2003 10:49 am

A concorde NG would be an entirely new aicracft.
Because the tools use to make the original, arent in existance.
A 737NG was easy, the fuselage was already in production, as were many major components.
ConcordeNG has to be a completely new aircraft, as you need to rebuild all the tools used to make it.
new engines have to be made, new cockipt, everything has to be redsigned but the fuselage, and if you're gonn have to rebuild the tooling anyways, you might as well change that too.

A^A MD-11
 
GDB
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sat Mar 08, 2003 10:52 am

Concorde's engines, while very efficient at Mach 2, are the opposite in other phases of flight.
They do not meet any kind of noise and emission rules, Concorde is exempted only by the tiny size of the fleet.
That is the stopper, there is no suitable modern engine, while various concepts to combine a high-bypass ratio turbofan, with an engine capable of sustained, efficient supersonic flight (we are talking 2-3 hours in supercruise for Concorde's medium range routes, so forget any military engine), nothing really has happened, a R/R engineer told me a few years ago that in all their studies of a new SST engine, they've never managed to beat the Olympus 593 for supersonic performance, it is all about the lower speeds, for take off and landing, that is where the problem is, and an engine for good operation in noise, fuel burn and emissions, is totally different to the requirements of supercruise, a low bypass turbojet.
 
GDB
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sat Mar 08, 2003 11:02 am

Here is the nearest we ever got to a 'ConcordeNG', from the mid 70's.
Some useful improvements, still not good enough for today in environmental impact, capacity and range, if a new SST cannot do trans-pacific with 200-250 pax, forget it.
http://concordesst.com/concordeb.html
But a shame this never happened, what we could have done with 4-5 of these in addition to the 5 originals BA ordered!
Might have sold a few too. though not many, if it had been in production when planned, (early 80's), but there was a recession then too, a few years later perhaps, but too late then production wise in all probability.


 
VS11
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sat Mar 08, 2003 12:01 pm

If there is a will, there is a way.

Virgin does not need to buy the Concorde or "the whole operation". Just as we lease Air Atlanta's Classic 747s together with the flight deck, we could potentially lease the Concorde with the flight deck crew (but certainly not the cabin crew  Smile/happy/getting dizzy ). I am sure there would billions of details to be arranged and obstacles to be overcome but I still believe that if BA wants to retire the Concordes earlier then the idea of VS operating the Concordes would be not out of place.

There are some very ridiculous arguments against Virgin operating the Concorde as it was BA/AF's. Total BS!!! Those two airlines did NOT even want to buy the Concorde, particularly BA. BA had to be politically forced to operate it as they did not want to buy it, and eventually it was simply GIVEN AWAY to them as then BA was still state-owned. The Concorde for all of its technological advancement was a complete political and economic fiasco. None of the airlines that originally wanted to buy it did.

The only reason BA and AF fly it today is that it would have been complete disgrace and embarrassment for the governments of Britain and France if even the national carriers of those countries did not fly the plane that was being developed more than 10 years for the cost of billions of pounds so those governments being the sponsors of the Concorde simply gave it for free to the national carriers.

However, what I find particularly annoying is that some people would rather have the Concorde retired forever than see it flying with Virgin. Why? Virgin has always been full of courage, daring and ambition. What's wrong with that? I realize the British are very resilient to change but why the hate towards someone who has dared to question the status quo and go beyond their confined place?

Anyway I do not wanna go offtopic but it seems to me that to some people the idea of VS operating the Concorde is intolerable just because it is VS but if it were American, United, Lufthansa, SwissAir or any other airline then it is a different story.

Virgin Atlantic is a phenomenal airline and I see the evidence for it every day!!!

Regards,
VS11
 
Shamrock_747
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sat Mar 08, 2003 8:03 pm

BA do not just fly Concorde just for prestiege or to save embarassing the governments. When the plane was first introduced it didn't make money, but when the operation was reshaped in the 1980s and the destinations were cut to just the US and BGI it started making money.

Concorde has been very profitable to BA, but I think once the regular average loads drop below 35 full fare pax the aircraft will be retired. BA simply aren't in a financial postion to operate a fleet of aircraft driving them into further debt. Hopefully that time won't come in the near future.

If Branson were to operate Concorde there is no doubt that the hype and publicity stunts he would create would give near enough full loads on every flight. The question is, would the money he would make from tickets pay off the huge initial investment he would have to make? I don't think it would, considering the aircraft only has a few more years flying before the Re-life 2 modifications would need to be done, which would cost extortionate amounts.

Shamrock_747
 
GDB
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RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sat Mar 08, 2003 8:10 pm

Nonsense, BA has run the Concorde most effectively, we took over the costs in the early 80's, we made it work, we developed the most profitable routes and charters, we've flown it the most so have done the most engineering development, we stuck with it.
It is NOT just another aircraft, run it like that and see how far you get, people with knowledge of it, pilots, engineers etc, are thin on the ground.
Branson is a bullshitter when it comes to Concorde, AF never took him seriously, it's all about headline grabbing, VS has nowhere near the resources to run a Concorde operation and I suspect Branson knows it, that VS Concorde model on his desk is the nearest he'll ever get to one, (though he has flown on BA Concordes a number of times, (on an ID90 ticket I might add), oh yes, he also vandalized the BA model on the entrance into LHR in the early 90's.
Don't believe the hype!

 
GDB
Posts: 12653
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sat Mar 08, 2003 9:00 pm

That's right Shamrock_747, VS would have to take over some BA Concorde's pretty soon for any kind of worthwhile service before re-life 2 in about 2008-9, if it went next year, VS would still have large operating costs for what? 4 years of service.
BA are contracted with their part of the spares/supplier agreement until sometime in 2005.
AF will probably go until the end of 2007, my money is on BA stopping with them.
Managers in BA engineering (the new lot are a right bunch of tossers, ask anyone there, not just Concorde staff) may not like Concorde, they may be making life difficult for us, but the fate of the aircraft is not up to them.
I'd go and work for VS on Concorde, not that I think it's going to happen, but hypothetically, that is just out of disapproval for the current situation in BA Engineering, but these middle managers come and go.
If Concorde is dumped very early by BA, then the whole airline is in deep trouble, and I'd be out of work anyway.
BA Concorde suffered big drops in loads in the last Gulf War, I've just heard the BA273 go, will meet it when it gets back tonight when I'm at work, that is a very profitable Concorde route.
Yesterday was typical for this time of year, a good BA001 (64 pax), the BA002 was crap (21 pax), but when the BA002's are retimed in April (all being well with getting some spares) then the BA002's will pick up, as pax prefer a 08:30 JFK departure, rather than 12:15.
But poor management has caused that retiming, hopefully they'll get what is coming to them in time.
 
gordonroxburgh
Posts: 519
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2000 8:36 pm

RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sun Mar 09, 2003 6:38 am

Not that is is ever going to happen; but here is one of Branson's models he got made a few years back, with the livery he proposed.



I don't think techncially it would have been allowed as the airframe has to be mostly white due to thermal heating. (The Pepsi Conc had to fly to only M1.7 and its wings were still white)

All hype here. everyting that needed to be said has been said, it just would not work.
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Virgin Was To Buy Two AF Concordes

Sun Mar 09, 2003 6:43 am

oh yes, he also vandalized the BA model on the entrance into LHR in the early 90's.
What happened to him when he did this?A visit from his friends in blue?