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Another Concorde Problem Today

Mon Mar 10, 2003 9:24 am

Engine trouble upon take-off from Barbados back to LHR. The bird is waiting there for spare parts to be flown in. Anyone have more info?
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RE: Another Concorde Problem Today

Mon Mar 10, 2003 3:57 pm

That report is not accurate, it never took off (and it takes 4 hrs 10 min to do BGI).
No.3 reheat failed so take off was stopped at 100 kts (t/o speed is 250 kts), the aircraft returned to stand, a new reheat amp. was fitted and another t/o was attempted, again No.3 reheat did not light, this time the t/o was stopped at 30 kts.

At LHR or JFK it would not be a problem. however BGI is a shorter field, with higher temps and near the aircraft's range limit, so as procedure no further t/o attempts.
BA elected not to send people and parts out to BGI, some of the 73 pax came back on a scheduled 777, 52 remaining pax took the aircraft (G-BOAF) the next day on 3 reheats with a reduced fuel load and a fuelling stop at SMA in the Azores.

BGI is an austere field, with limited BA staff and spare part holdings, great flights profit wise, but not the place to get a problem for these reasons.
It is the first time a problem has occurred to stop a flight at BGI since flying resumed in November 2001, it was also that Captain's last flight before retirement.

BGI is a challenge technically, there was not as much as even a slight delay during the 2001/2002 BGI season, but of course that does not make the press, unless a travel journalist is on board for a 'freebie'!

UK Sunday tabloids screamed about a 'safety problem', not so, it may have been if the capt had ignored procedures and actually took off, but they don't do that sort if thing, it made the press as there was a big celeb load, plus much of the press in the UK (who have never liked Concorde) regard the aircraft as a 'scalp' to be had, like a politician or celeb they want sacked.
Hence every small problem is magnified, it has always been this way, you wonder what they would write if they saw the tech logs from any airliner, as most journalists do not know one end of a plane from the other, the only ones they can usually recognise is a Concorde, 747 and a Sptifire.

BGI flights, due to the range and usually rather heavier baggage load, have an 80 pax restriction, but nearly all the pax are full fare and the route is seen by BA as always very profitable both ways.
The report is correct that BGI services are flown on Saturdays between late November or early December, to April, with additional flights on Saturdays in August.
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RE: Another Concorde Problem Today

Mon Mar 10, 2003 3:59 pm

this old bird is slowly falling to pieces, and everybody knows and has gotten used to it, looking at the amount of replies and views this topic got...

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RE: Another Concorde Problem Today

Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:25 pm


Concorde is like any other aircraft. Things fail at the wrong time on all passenger aircrafts. The thing about Concorde is, that when something fails on her, the press immediately seize the opportunity to bash her.
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RE: Another Concorde Problem Today

Mon Mar 10, 2003 6:40 pm

'Falling to pieces' klm-md11? You had better contact BA and tell them that in your expert view, a problem with one box on one of four reheat systems is a major structural problem!
The BA fleet has between 16-22000 hours, less than many airliners, corrosion is prevented by the heat in supercruise, the aircraft are maintained well above the parameters set by the CAA and manufacturers.
But hey, if you want to believe press BS, that's up to you, ever wondered why most incidents on airliners do not get reported, even much more serious ones?
If they were, some papers would be little more than a list of airliner incidents.
You average ignorant reporter just picks sites like pprune and maybe this one, sticks 'Concorde' in the search engine, and off they go.
Even the BBC told the world recently that Concorde flies at 3000 m.p.h. if they cannot get the speed of the most famous aircraft in the world right, why should anything else they say make any sense, this is not restricted to Concorde, as a quick look around this site should tell you.
It has always been a controversial aircraft, parts of the press have been gunning for it since the 60's, and they hate it when something they don't like carries on.
As I said before, if it had happened at LHR, CDG or JFK, the aircraft would have carried on, and the likes of klm-md11 would be none the wiser, it shows the safety orientated nature of the operation that crews stick to procedures, which are very conservative.
dc-10 levo
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RE: Another Concorde Problem Today

Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:16 pm

But you can see where Klm-md11 is coming from. In the past few months, Concorde has had too many problems.

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RE: Another Concorde Problem Today

Mon Mar 10, 2003 8:14 pm

I posted this to a newsgroup yesterday, to point out how people overreact:

But not making the newswires yesterday or today are some MAN "incidents":

Yesterday: Lufthansa flight LH4607 somehow managed to lose "box1" and "box2" for communications and was fully intent on climbing to 37000 feet presumably utilising TCAS data to radar position "Goles" when he "transmitted blindly" on MAN tower his problems....they were using spare number 3 set. Not very newsworthy but a bit of a shock to hear the flight call the tower 5 minutes after take off bellowing "Transmitting blind" three times.
Yesterday 2: BA flight BA 1690 seemingly took off as normal but diverted back to MAN at around 9.30am for "unknown reasons"....I was still in bed so don't know the details! A replacement aircraft operated the service (I did wonder why it was some 4 hours late when I heard it arrive.)

Today: CSA flight OK645 abandoned take-off today at about 14.05, seeming with some kind of engine problem, causing an Aer Lingus flight to go-around. The aircraft manoeuvred itself off the runway, did some kind of test (I heard "idle power" being mentioned) presumably on a taxiway and took off 15 minutes later.

I'm sure that each British airport has such incidents each and every day but no-one deems them "newsworthy" but as soon as it's Concorde, people wet themselves and then decide to bring in the non-related story of alleged poor loads that are in excess of those needed for it to be making profits (!) into the story. In terms of age, she is probably around 4 to 5 years old when looking at the number of hours flown....your typical 737/757/A320 will do around 3000 hours (or more, probably a lot more!) each year which could lead to the situation that a notional 3 year-old aircraft would have flown more hours than the alleged "aging" Concorde.

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RE: Another Concorde Problem Today

Tue Mar 11, 2003 3:02 am

Yeah "bad news" for the Concorde, they should retire them! They are old! They are unsafe! ... blah blah blah ...

... But the problem is that in the CNN news I just can see positive stuff: wise captain, right decisions which shows an incredible training, a minor engine problem... Why no one in the press says that???.

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RE: Another Concorde Problem Today

Tue Mar 11, 2003 7:35 am

If it had not been for the silly rules we have at Heathrow the aircraft would probably have come back on the same day.

They simply ran out of time: To re-file a flight plan and do the tech stop would have meant the a/c arriving back well after 2 or 3am...this is just not allowed at LHR. If she had slipped in late nobody would ever have said anything.

The media are being plain stupid at the moment on any Concorde story. Someone needs to sort them out - Every report reminds us of the Accident in 2000. Now when a 747 has a problem they don't ever tell us about the 1000's of people that have died on them.

BA and AF really need to start policing the media to get their reporting correct as it will effect passenger confidence. CNN's could be take to court on what they said.

To put the media's reporting in perspective. The AF rudder incident (and the BA one before it), which got massive press coverage, got a small "in brief" paragraph in Flight International.
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RE: Another Concorde Problem Today

Tue Mar 11, 2003 1:31 pm

I just returned from BGI to YYZ today.

The Concorde delay was actually big news thru-out the island on Sun/Mon. Hotel guests, staff, cab drivers were talking about it. I was surprized at the awareness of this relative non-event. Bajans (Barbadians) seem very proud of their weekly Concorde link. The hotel staff were telling everyone at breakfast on Sat to watch for the Concorde arrival on Sat morning.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
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RE: Another Concorde Problem Today

Tue Mar 11, 2003 2:53 pm

I suspect the reasons any Concorde incident makes headlines is... well... Because it's Concorde! The most famous (infamous) aircraft in aviation history. Also, being of such limited numbers, it's a big deal to people. It is, however, unfortunate that some dwell on the negative aspects of this great aircraft. Those of us who know better should just shake our heads at their ignorance (as we probably already do) and get on with our lives.
Long live concorde!

Nevermind political correctness - Envision using your turn signals!
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RE: Another Concorde Problem Today

Tue Mar 11, 2003 10:56 pm

Thanks AWspicious, we do get a lot of support from the general public, in the form of kids drawings, poems and requests for pics/info, these are people who generally won't get the chance to fly on the rocket, (BA should do LHR-LHR charters IMHO, AF are doing some CDG-CDG ones and a lot of Brits are going over there to enjoy them).
BA Concorde has problems, bad ones, not technical, not even revenue related, but from poor management and being used as an internal political football.
But this minor problem in BGI was a 'shit happens'.
We really need a dedicated Concorde Division back, like the early 80's when Capt Brian Walpole turned it around, today we need it to escape the useless and hostile management in BA Engineering, it may happen.
Marketing have admitted that moving the BA001 to a 18:30 LHR departure from April was a mistake, too late, 300 pax may have complained but they've lost the slot and won't easily get it back.
Soon I may do a really blood curdling post venting against the fools running things, watch this space!
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RE: Another Concorde Problem Today

Tue Mar 11, 2003 11:41 pm

GDB or Gordonroxburgh: Any info on how much the CDG-CDG charters are, when they take place, and where to book them?
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RE: Another Concorde Problem Today

Wed Mar 12, 2003 3:52 am

Ikarus, have a look at this;

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