flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

KLM To Canada

Tue Mar 11, 2003 2:54 pm

Weird things are going on with KLM this summer, in terms of their service to Canada..

This suumer, KLM will make Montreal an MD11 station, with Toronto receiving a mix bag of 74Combi's/743's, and YVR / CYVR), Canada - British Columbia">YVR will remain a B767.

Funny thing is, in May, KLM will downgrade Montreal to a B767, downgrade Toronto to an MD11, and Vancouver to 6 weekly..

This is weird news.... now we all know Load factor's mean nothing, but Montreal/Toronto last summer were neck and neck with KLM's most pax carried by a single flight. Apparently the load factors for each city were about 95%....

Took a look at bookings in may, many of the YYZ / CYYZ), Canada - Ontario">YYZ and YUL / CYUL), Canada - Quebec">YUL flights are now oversold, with June looking 2/3 to full already. Taking up lists of pax and the fares that the paid, there are many full fare pax on KL out of YYZ / CYYZ), Canada - Ontario">YYZ and YUL / CYUL), Canada - Quebec">YUL, surprising actually... many elite's on these flights as well..

Going down from 466 seats to 215 seats is a big step in capacity reduction.. they blame the Middle East... but what is really going on?

Mark

[Edited 2003-03-11 06:55:00]
 
AWspicious
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Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 7:47 am

RE: KLM To Canada

Tue Mar 11, 2003 3:12 pm

That is quite interesting. Last winter they operated an MD11 into YYZ, but, not this winter. now, talks of changing again? Hmmmm......

aw
Nevermind political correctness - Envision using your turn signals!
 
B747-437B
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RE: KLM To Canada

Tue Mar 11, 2003 3:17 pm

many elite's on these flights as well..

Damn straight!  Smile
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
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RE: KLM To Canada

Tue Mar 11, 2003 3:25 pm

Doesn't AC add seasonal YYZ-AMS service this summer again? If so, this could depress demand for KLM.

Anyway, KLM is slowly parking their 743 fleet. Perhaps a downgrade to the MD-11 makes more sense than the 744.

I'm always happy to see another MD-11 operator in YYZ.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
The777Man
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RE: KLM To Canada

Tue Mar 11, 2003 3:57 pm

Both YYZ and YUL will be first destinations for KLM to recieve the 777 when it starts service for KLM at the end of Oct03. I think that's an indication that KLM considers both YYZ and YUL as important desitnations.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
AWspicious
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Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 7:47 am

RE: KLM To Canada

Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:08 pm

KLM triple-7s to YYZ?! Cool!
I see the British Airways 777 flights into and out of YYZ every so often; I see El Al's 777 infrequently (even though it operates often); But, I see the KLM flights quite often, so, I know I'll be seeing that 777 a lot.

aw
Nevermind political correctness - Envision using your turn signals!
 
LJ
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RE: KLM To Canada

Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:39 pm

FLYYUL, I don't know where you get your information from but on KLM's slot application they said that they'll use the B747-300 to both YUL and YYZ

Doesn't AC add seasonal YYZ-AMS service this summer again? If so, this could depress demand for KLM

Indeed AC has announced a seasonal daily YYZ-AMS flight (767-300).
 
erikr
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 1:59 am

RE: KLM To Canada

Wed Mar 12, 2003 1:05 am

KLM summer reductions may also be partially due to Martinair's annual summer schedule starting up:

3x weekly to Toronto (2 start mid-April, 3rd mid-May through late Oct)
2x weekly to Vancouver (mid May - mid Sept)
2x weekly to Calgary/Edmonton (mid May - mid Sept)

All presumably with B767-300.

-Erik
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: KLM To Canada

Wed Mar 12, 2003 2:47 am

The shcedule is already made... what about the slot applications?

Mark
 
LJ
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Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: KLM To Canada

Wed Mar 12, 2003 4:33 am

The shcedule is already made... what about the slot applications?


KLM made the following application for its flight to YUL. Given that this was data as of Feb 28 I reckon they must have changed the schedule at a very short notice (schedule changes are usually incorporated in the application)

D AMS KL671 01JUN 30SEP 1234567 282 M11 1410 YUL YUL
D AMS KL671 30MAR 31MAY 1234567 466 743 1410 YUL YUL
A AMS KL672 30MAR 02JUN 1234567 466 743 YUL YUL 0555
A AMS KL672 03JUN 29SEP 1234567 282 M11 YUL YUL 0615

The only logical reason for this sudden change is either a lack of booking or they had to retire one B747-300 earlier than anticipated (wouldn't be the first time this happens).

BTW YUL-AMS on KLM on June 2/3 still open for booking!! I already feel sorry for the gate agent at YUL if everybody turns up.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
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RE: KLM To Canada

Wed Mar 12, 2003 4:49 am

YULAMS and YYZAMS last summer were 95% full on average...

Mark