DIA
Topic Author
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Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:09 am

First of all, my source is an F9 pilot. I was just sitting in on an aviation class at Metropolitan State College of Denver, when he announced. . ."Frontier flies the 737-200, the 737-300, the Airbus 319, and soon the Airbus 318. All the Boeings will be retired soon enough. We are also looking to buy some A321s." I asked him why they're skipping over the Airbus 320. He said it just didn't factor into they're route system right now the way the A321 can currently. He went on to talk about the size comparison between the A321 and the 757.

What!!!???? Does anyone know any more about this, because I sure don't.

That's all I know,
DIA
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:18 am

A321s out of DEN.... that should be interesting: can see a whole queue of them lined up for exclusive use of the new super-long runway  Laugh out loud
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:25 am

DIA:

You know I'm a big supporter of F9, but I think your pilot friend is smoking an illegal substance.

Frontier has said that - one day - they hope to be interested in the A320, but not yet. To jump from the A319 to the A321 would seem to be completely out of character for this airline. It also goes against all their stated growth projections.

Even if, in return for the A318, Airbus is offering F9 the greatest deal in the history of civil aviation, I doubt it will happen within the next five years.

Of course, I'd be delighted to be wrong.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
AS_GSC
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:30 am

There is no validity to this at all.

The only confirmed orders are for the 319 and 318. With the first delivery of the 318 scheduled for this July.

If this guy is talking about the 321 it must be after 2006. All the deliveries/orders have been scheduled up until then.

Cheers!
AS_GSC

 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:55 am

I have to agree with my fellow members here. This F9 pilot is not the official word on whether Frontier is getting the A321. To have the A319s, A318s on order, then go directly to the A321, is completely bogus. I knew some F9 pilots while I was with Frontier...and I can honestly say they are not the most reliable source for info within the company. So I'll take this "A321s for Frontier" with a grain of salt. I'll believe it when I see it flying in Frontier's colors. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
scottysair
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 1:55 am

Guys,

Where did you even got hear about buying with AIrbus A321?!?!? Are you sure about Frontier wanting on the orders with Airbus A321 aircraft. Can you please comfirmed with the orders on Airbus for me, please?!? Thanks!

Regards!
 
doug_or
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 2:06 am

we can't confirm the order becasue it doesn't exist. it is a rumor from a pilot that F9 may be interested in this a/c. nothing more.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
ouboy79
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 2:33 am

Scotty...Please re-read the first post. You asked questions that were already answered.

Regarding no new planes til after 2005. Things can change...rapidly. You could pick up nearly anytype of planes immediately if need be (some new, some old). I would see talk of the 321 as just low level discussion right now in the event that UAL shutters DEN.
 
GARUDAROD
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 2:49 am



Lets look at this as interested observers...
Assume that UA dismantles their DEN hub or goes out of business...
There is a huge void to be filled for passengers.
The A319 is also causing problems in terms of how much, or should
I say how little cargo they can carry. Cargo is projected to be a major
part of F9's revenues.
The A321 can be flown by the same aircrews as the A319, A318 , so
flight training is not a major issue.
Correct me if Im wrong, but the A321 isnt doing as well as Airbus had
hoped. This could be an incentive to take some of these planes, along
the lines of cheap rates quoted recently for the A320s.
Up until last week I was doing sales for F9, so you can call these
educated opinions.....
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
DIA
Topic Author
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 3:55 am

I'm still not sure how to take this info. Yes, it's from a current F9 pilot. He was dead serious about skipping over the A320 for the A321. UAL leaving. . .F9 beefs up: that looks like a possibility. But, as Mariner points out, to do so if UAL stays. . .well that is completely out of step with what F9 has been doing. I just don't know, which is why I wanted some of your thoughts.

Still pondering this possibility. . .
DIA
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
Greg
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 5:28 am

Isn't the 321 about as underpowered as the 340?
It should make for some quite spectacular take-offs at MTOW.
 
flyf15
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 5:37 am

You guys.....A321s have been flying out of DEN for some time. Those of US Airways flying all the way to the east coast, just about the longest flights they'd see out of Denver.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 6:26 am

just about the longest flights they'd see out of Denver

Interesting... so FRA is closer to DEN than the USA east coast?  Laugh out loud
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
doug_or
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 6:38 am

ConcordeBoy- WTF? he said the furthest they'd see out of DEN. An A321 couldn't reach FRA, so its not very likely they'd fly there, is it?

RE: airbus

Correct me if Im wrong, but the A321 isnt doing as well as Airbus had hoped

The 321 is built on the same line as the 319, isn't it? if so it doesn't matter if 319s or 321s are ordered
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
flashmeister
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 6:58 am

I also have heard from folks in the know at F9 that the 321 is being seriously considered, but I doubt that anything could be done immediately in the event of UA's demise. I think it's longer-term.
 
BA
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 7:51 am

It'd be nice if it happen.....

But I dunno.....

At the same time it wouldn't really surprise me because since the A321-200 came out, sales have drastically improved. The only difference was that the -200 added 400nm in range boosting it to 3000nm. I guess that's what the airlines were looking for. The A321-100 had a range of 2600nm.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
gigneil
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 7:58 am

The A321 is not nearly as underpowered as the 739... and with the "denver bump" option, I think US' get off the ground with pretty close to max payload.

If AS can fly a 739 SEA-MIA, then Frontier or whoever will have no A321 problems at Denver at all.

N
 
ba319-131
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:09 am

Now as much as i'd love to see a Frontier A321,its more likely that 320's would be aquired before 321's.

Perhaps one day.......

Rgds

BA319-131
111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:40 am

I can't take rumors from pilots as serious.

I had a Northwest pilot tell me they were getting 777s and another Northwest pilot say they are getting the 717 for sure to replace the DC-9.

Pilots just fly the planes, not order them.
 
BA
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:45 am

I had a Northwest pilot tell me they were getting 777s

Not hard to believe at all. Northwest has been looking at the 777 very closely, although now they picked the A330. However, that doesn't mean they won't get the 777 in the future. Northwest is still a dedicated Boeing customer (they are partial to both Boeing and Airbus). The A330 cannot cover all the roles that a 777-200ER/LR can do. In the future, Northwest may very well see a need for a higher performance aircraft than the A330 and they might go with the 777. However they are also looking at the A340. I guess we'll find out one day.

Northwest pilot say they are getting the 717 for sure to replace the DC-9.

That's nothing unusual either. Northwest has been looking very closely at getting the 717 in the future. Although for right now, they plan to keep the DC-9s for a while.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
DIA
Topic Author
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:39 am

Flashmeister said: I also have heard from folks in the know at F9 that the 321 is being seriously considered, but I doubt that anything could be done immediately in the event of UA's demise. I think it's longer-term.

That's what I was wondering. . .if anyone else can confirm. . .even if it is just heresay right now. Thanks, Flashmeister, for that bit of info.

US Airways has been flying A321s here for a long time now with no problem with MTOW in winter or summer, heat or cold.

The more I talk with "others," the more I'm thinking this may happen. F9 has routes that would utilize the A321 efficiently enough to support an order for the type. All F9 would have to do is change some flight times, frequencies, and so forth, and they could get some A321 flights at or near capacity. It will become easier, of course, as F9 gains more pax, which they are doing very well at during these turbulent times.

I am still a little shocked that the A320 would be "skipped over." But. . .F9 is not going to make a bad decision. They have already proven they can handle themselves through good and bad times while they test the waters (Mexico and Floridian cities). They're structured very well with a very smart and savvy staff.

DIA


Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
BA
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:43 am

Look for SNA to be added sometime this year. There should be an announcement very soon.

I hear PBI, PHL, and DTW are being closely looked at also.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
DIA
Topic Author
Posts: 3053
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 2:24 pm

RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:46 am

FYI: F9 has already "sound-tested" their A319s at Orange County as well. Yes. . .it is set and ready.

DIA
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
BA
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:52 am

Yes, they were doing the sound tests back in January.

I hear the service will be 2 daily flights.

Now if they get JetExpress into BUR and LGB. They'll serve all 5 Los Angeles area airports.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
scottysair
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:23 am

Hey BA,

Are you exactly sure about heard with new route from DEN to PHL, PBI and DTW anytime soon for announcement of the nonstop. This is really closely with the expanding of the new routes to West Palm Beach. This is best way should need using on the Airbus A319 with more transcon to east coast. Well, talk ya later!

Regards!

Scott W.
 
BA
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:43 am

Are you exactly sure about heard with new route from DEN to PHL, PBI and DTW anytime soon for announcement of the nonstop.

I can't confirm anything. But these 3 cities are being closely looked at for the future.

If you ask me, Flint makes more sense than DTW though...

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
airlinelover
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 1:53 pm

Flint makes a TON more sense than DTW.. FNT has NO west coast mainline service directly.. Only DTW, ATL, MCO, MSP, and PHL.. Charters to LAS and CUN, but that is a bit different.. Anyway.. F9 at Flint would be WONDERFUL!! I'd LOVE to see them come on in!!

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
HermansCVR580
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Wed Mar 12, 2003 11:37 pm

How about service to Milwaukee??? This past summer they had T.V. ads on during the Channel 12 morning news, thought maybe they were going to start service here. I guess one can only hope Smile
The right decision at the wrong time, is still a wrong decision. "Hal Carr"
 
srbmod
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:59 am

It does seem odd that they would skip over the A320 for the A321. But if UAL does skip town (either by shuttering their DEN hub or by CH. 7), there will be a major capacity shortage, and the A321 could probably fill that role, and they probably could add some of UAL's Airbus fleet pretty quickly (if Frontier can afford to), and the A321s could be a future fleet type so that Frontier could potentially have every member of the A320 family.
 
ouboy79
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Thu Mar 13, 2003 2:18 am

Frontier could always come back to TOL over FNT or DTW. I mean, they could probably also find some of the old Frontier signage from the first Frontier and use it.  Big grin
 
An-225
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Thu Mar 13, 2003 2:55 am

Somehow I doubt that they are going to increase capacity that drastically. A320's make sense, but A321's do not. I would hope I am wrong though - more interesting stuff to photograph!

Alex
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
ScottB
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Thu Mar 13, 2003 5:37 am

The A321 might make sense for Frontier if they were reporting load factors of 75% or higher; as it stands, they've broken 60% once in the last six months. In February, they improved loads by 3.4% (to 57%) over 2002, but only with a 20% drop in average fare paid. As it stands, Frontier needs to be very careful about how it uses its cash resources until (a) the economy improves dramatically or (b) United liquidates, reducing pressure on yields at DEN. While closing on the government-guaranteed loan has given Frontier some breathing room, they still need to be quite cautious since the company is losing money at a rate of several million dollars per month (loads and fares are both down from last quarter).
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Thu Mar 13, 2003 6:28 am

I flew on "F9" the other day from DIA to PHX, what a sad excuse for an airline !!! They didn't seem to have any sense of "hurry up lets get going" We started boarding 35 mins before flight time and we where still boarding 20 minutes after departure time. They where better then "HP" (that ain't saying much) but I don't see Frontier staying in business let alone buying A321's
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
flashmeister
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Thu Mar 13, 2003 7:00 am

I don't see Frontier staying in business

Because we all know about the efficiency, timlieness, and comfort offered by other carriers... what a load of garbage.
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Thu Mar 13, 2003 9:31 am

True all airlines pretty much suck to fly on now, so why another crappie airline like Frontier ??? I say they will dry up and blow away before they ever get a A321, let alone offer a quality product....
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
DIA
Topic Author
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Thu Mar 13, 2003 9:42 am

DC10guy: You've got to be joking, or on something.

What the heck do you mean, I say they will dry up and blow away before they ever get a A321, let alone offer a quality product...."

Please. . . . .

Try backing up your opinions or "wishes" with some basic facts other than you having had a bad experience.

You obvoiusly don't know the airline, you don't know the people involved with F9. . .

Why are you so critical of Frontier????
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
BA
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Thu Mar 13, 2003 9:54 am

DIA,

Because he's jealous.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:42 am

DIA, I know how people feel about airlines , I'm sure you have strong feelings about Frontier, I've seen it before with Midway ... They won't last and that's my opinion of course, I'll bet in less than 2 years Frontier will be gone... That's using history of start ups as my guide.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
BA
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:46 am

That's using history of start ups as my guide.

They are not a start-up anymore. Next year they will be 10 years old.

They are the nation's 18th largest airline with a fleet of 35 aircraft serving 39 cities in the United States and Mexico.

Don't you even compare Frontier with a start-up.

Frontier is long from going away....
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Thu Mar 13, 2003 11:02 am

Crappy product? Fly on one of our 319's and see how crappy the experience is. Very far from it. I have received numerous compliments about how great our service is, etc. We accomadated about 10 passengers from a United flight this afternoon becuase there flight was running a little over an hour late, and all I heard was praise from them about "how nice of an airline we have".
Everyone I know at the airline is dedicated, motivated, and positive about our future. And no...I wouldn't look for 321's for some time.


Steve in NOLA
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Thu Mar 13, 2003 11:22 am

BA, I'm sorry I had no idea they where #18 wow.... 2 years at most before they are gone ....Bye bye now....see yah. Later dude.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Frontier Airlines To Buy Airbus A321s

Thu Mar 13, 2003 11:44 am

2 years at most before they are gone ....Bye bye now....see yah.

You wish....
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran

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