BA
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Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Wed Mar 12, 2003 2:52 pm

At last week's industry conference, Lufthansa German Airlines expressed the strongest interest in expanding operations at DIA, he said.

"I'm pretty excited with the Lufthansa talks," Melfi said. "It's the most exciting of all."

Lufthansa offers one daily flight from Denver to Frankfurt.

Melfi said Lufthansa is looking at either increasing its aircraft size or flight frequency. A Lufthansa spokeswoman declined to comment.


SOURCE: http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E33%257E1229061%257E,00.html

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
N737MC
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested

Wed Mar 12, 2003 2:59 pm

As Lufthansa is making great progress here in Denver, I could see them adding a second flight to Frankfurt or adding a flight to Munich. I hear there loads are quite high. Adding a morning arrival would be great, on top of there afternoon arrival.

Of course, I would stick with the A340-313's for the route, as the aircraft proves to be economical for these flights.



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[Edited 2003-03-12 07:09:56]

[Edited 2003-03-12 07:11:03]
 
flyyul
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Wed Mar 12, 2003 3:05 pm

DenverMunich seems like one of those routes that each STAR hub will have...

Every Star hub now has service to Munich except for Vancouver. YUL/YYZ/ORD/IAD/SFO/LAX have service to MUC..

Mark
 
BA
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Wed Mar 12, 2003 3:18 pm

It was reported by a German Airliners.net member late last year that Lufthansa is interested in starting MUC-DEN service. I then contacted airport officials and they told me they are in talks with Lufthansa about starting the route and are researching demographics.

Before anyone says that Lufthansa must be on drugs, keep in mind that Colorado's 2nd largest minority are Germans after Hispanics. Primarily from the Bavarian region of Germany which is where Munich is located.

I guess we'll find out. I assume we'll hear an announcement for increased DEN service sometime this summer.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
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yyz717
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Wed Mar 12, 2003 3:22 pm

I thought YUL-MUC was only just announced & has not yet begun? Isn't it also only summer-only? I'm also not sure I would call YUL a hub.....YUL is really just a large O+D market for the YUL area.

...seems like one of those routes that each STAR hub will have...

I don't think there are any must-have routes anywhere. Star Alliance carriers can ill-afford to have non-performing routes just because they link far-flung hubs.




I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Wed Mar 12, 2003 3:26 pm

Well Neil,

With new routes to Rome/Vienna/Munich and Beyrut in the last two years, I would call Montreal a secondary STAR hub... Air Canada says the in the press release the key for these routes are connections....

As for STAR, I think its within LH's plans to promote MUC as the viable alternative to Frankfurt... and as such, I think itll link its STAR hub routes to MUC at one point or another.

Mark
 
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yyz717
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Wed Mar 12, 2003 3:31 pm

Ya, I don't disagree Mark.

keep in mind that Colorado's 2nd largest minority are Germans

Most German-Americans (and there are over 50M) have no family ties to Germany anymore since German immigration to the US peaked from 1850 to 1920. I doubt ethnic ties drive any LH US routes. A DEN-MUC route will likely focus on non-VFR (ie, business).

Similarly, over 100M Americans have British background....only a small minority have any family ties to the UK anymore.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
BA
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Wed Mar 12, 2003 3:38 pm

Most German-Americans (and there are over 50M) have no family ties to Germany anymore since German immigration to the US peaked from 1850 to 1920.

I wasn't talking about the German-Americans that emigrated here in the 1800's and early 1900's. I'm talking about pure German immigrants who are living in Colorado.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
flyyul
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Wed Mar 12, 2003 3:44 pm

Whatever it is.... 60-70% of all traffic through MUC or FRA will be connex in nature..

Mark
 
gigneil
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In E

Wed Mar 12, 2003 3:54 pm

This is very exciting news for Denver.

Possibly also a way to feed more into UA's strongest domestic hub.

I can't help that believe after the 16k ft runway is finished, DEN is going to become a force not only for European connections, but Asian as well.

N
 
An-225
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Wed Mar 12, 2003 4:03 pm

I've heard this rumor too. I hope it comes through. 2 A-340's to photograph is better than just one!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Alex
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Wed Mar 12, 2003 5:51 pm

Are they still flying the B 747-200?
 
Andreas
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Wed Mar 12, 2003 6:53 pm

Currently 2 B 742 are still in the air (beside LH Cargo, of course!)
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
DIA
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Thu Mar 13, 2003 12:18 am

Sometimes I just don't get it. From the "numbers" Lufthansa looks very successful on the Denver operation; but why do I keep seeing them use A342s on the route!? Tell me it's just due to a smaller load every now and then. (I just saw another about three or four weeks ago)
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gigneil
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In E

Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:22 am

Isn't the A342 only in very infrequently?

N
 
9V-SPF
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:52 am

Last month the FRA-DEN route was operated by A342´s five or six times. While this is quite often for a route where a daily 343 is scheduled, I wouldn´t go so far to say it has to be caused by low bookings on the DEN flight. It also might depend on unexpected higher loads on other A342 routes (for example FRA-ATL is occasionally served by an A343), late aircraft arrivals at FRA, maintenance reasons etc.

MUC-DEN is a route that I had expected to be introduced before MUC-YUL (which I thought would rather be operated by Air Canada) as demand to Colorado indeed seems to be high here in Germany at the moment and that´s not only low yield tourism.
A 744 from FRA could also be an option but it would then have to be replaced by smaller aircraft on one of the other routes.

Daniel
 
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Thu Mar 13, 2003 3:19 am

Who cares about the size of the German population? Airlines don't make money off of Kinder taking leisure trips home to visit Eltern und Grosseltern or other Verwandten visiting on excursion fares to Denver and the west. They make it off a good percentage of business travelers and cargo in the bellies of the passenger planes.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
flyyul
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Thu Mar 13, 2003 3:27 am

Will the new Montreal-Munich route be served with A340-200 or A340-300?

Mark
 
flumuc
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Thu Mar 13, 2003 3:34 am

A340-300, LHs long hauls from MUC are all served with A340-300
 
MAH4546
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Thu Mar 13, 2003 8:24 am

MIA is a star hub not served from MUC. We had MIA-MUC on Austrian before 9.11, though it has not come back. It has been on LH/OS "future routes" list for a long time coming, but has yet to surface. Though I think we will see MIA-MUC back in the near future.
a.
 
gigneil
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In E

Thu Mar 13, 2003 8:25 am

I think with the demise of Varig, the Miami Star Hub is in question.

I wonder if TAM will join Star post absorbing Varig.

N
 
BA
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Thu Mar 13, 2003 9:58 am

The Mayor's top officials are on a trading mission in Asia touring China and Japan. Part of there reason for going there is to lure non-stop cargo and passenger flights.

They're trying to get Air China Cargo to start service from HKG and either ANA or JAL to start passenger service from NRT.

I guess we'll see what happens.....

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
munich
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Thu Mar 13, 2003 6:59 pm

I don't believe in a MUC-DEN service. I think it will be a 2nd flight from FRA or, in my oppinion is more probable, a larger aircraft like B744 or A346.

It's a difficult situation for Munich. Like I had heard, there where some difficulties in the LH-company, to inaugerate the MUC-YUL flight, because somebodies in the compony don't want, that this flight will be served first from MUC.

Otherwise there is hardly a possibility for LH to expand in FRA, because a additional runway is needed for additional slots in FRA.

Let us see.
Regards! Robert alias munich
 
flyyul
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Fri Mar 14, 2003 1:23 am

"It's a difficult situation for Munich. Like I had heard, there where some difficulties in the LH-company, to inaugerate the MUC-YUL flight, because somebodies in the compony don't want, that this flight will be served first from MUC."

-What does this mean?

Mark
 
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yyz717
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:53 am

LOL Mark!

N
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Fri Mar 14, 2003 3:05 am

Its just weird..

Montreal-Munich is programmed in the reservation system, but no connections available.... its like LH is offering YULMUC, and nothing else...its been a week since the flights have been in the res.system and the flights start in almost 2 months.........

So im a bit concerned... and if there is any truth to what Munich said..

Mark
 
MAH4546
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Fri Mar 14, 2003 6:38 am

I think with the demise of Varig, the Miami Star Hub is in question

Ummm...not really. Especially considering Varig is not the only Star carrier at MIA and the new Star Alliance terminal at MIA is already a good 40% complete.
a.
 
gigneil
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In E

Fri Mar 14, 2003 6:41 am

But really, what's the point of having a Star Hub at Miami without Varig there too?

Granted, I guess you could make some Mexicana connections there... but Miami is just not the logical choice for making other North American connections via Star Carriers.

N
 
MAH4546
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Fri Mar 14, 2003 7:04 am

But really, what's the point of having a Star Hub at Miami without Varig there too?

Granted, I guess you could make some Mexicana connections there... but Miami is just not the logical choice for making other North American connections via Star Carriers.

N


In 2006 when the alliance opens, Varig/TAM will be there in some form and, if still around, UAL is planning to build up thier LatAm operations again the future. The current operation is almost all O&D, and the future operation will likely be that still. It will be 15 gates, all international. And with USAirways joining Star, they will find even more use.
a.
 
blink182
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Fri Mar 14, 2003 7:40 am

I'd say Lufthansa is better off having a second A340 from Frankfurt by making the current one leave either earlier and having the second flight leave later or vice versa. Doing this would make more options available for pax who might have otherwise gone through a different Lufthansa US city due to an inconvenient departure time(be it from a meeting or a late connection or whatever).

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
munich
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested

Fri Mar 14, 2003 7:40 am

Hi Marc (FLYYUL),

don't worry! Now the MUC-YUL flight is safe. But last week till Friday it was not sure, that this flight will be served from MUC. As I say above, in the LH-company it's history that never was a flight from an other destination if this flight is not be served from FRA before. And apparently a lot of people in the company want to stay in this history.

But now it's over and MUC-YUL is fact for the summer season. For the winter season there are discussions whether AC will take over this flight.

Greetings from Munich to Montreal
Robert


[Edited 2003-03-13 23:51:54]
Regards! Robert alias munich
 
flyyul
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Fri Mar 14, 2003 3:05 pm

Munich,

Lufthansa would not be interested in operating this flight year-round?

Mark
 
flyyul
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Fri Mar 14, 2003 3:23 pm

Ok Robert..let me see if I got you here.

a.) LH wanted to serve YULFRA before YULMUC, because all the MUC links from North America now, have FRA links with LH?

b.) Air Canada serves FRA with cooperation LH.. half the seats on teh Boeing 747 are sold by lufthansa, half by Air Canada.

Thanks..

Mark
 
munich
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested

Fri Mar 14, 2003 3:48 pm

Hi Mark,

of course, LH is interested. But it seems, there are rumours that LH has not enough aircrafts and than this routing will be taken over by AC. The MUC-YUL routing is only possible because during the summer season the MUC-JNB routing is suspended. May be the flight to YUL will be reduced in winter season to 3 flights a week, but I don't know. As I said before, it's only a rumour !!!

Robert

PS.

Yes Mark, you got it. That’s what I want to say. I know, my English is rather poor, I’m sorry for this!


[Edited 2003-03-14 08:03:35]
Regards! Robert alias munich
 
Trvlr
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Fri Mar 14, 2003 3:52 pm

Any more news on whether LH will further expand to new cities in North America?

Aaron G.
 
flyyul
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Fri Mar 14, 2003 4:09 pm

Munich..

Thank you very much for your info.. and my german isnt so great either (i failed that class)  Big thumbs up

Mark
 
munich
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Fri Mar 14, 2003 4:11 pm

I forgot, additional there is possibly a reason in the aircrafts. LH has for longhaulflights only B747, A340 and now also A330. The B767 from AC possibly is better suitable for a reduced passenger volume in winter season.
Regards! Robert alias munich
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Sat Mar 15, 2003 10:39 pm

i really have no clue if YUL is intended to be seasonal only (this would have been indicated in the press releases, wouldn´t it?) or if it´s to be taken over by Air Canada. anyway, i doubt there´s a connection to the JNB flights from MUC since this service will still be served this summer, albeit just thrice a week. don´t know if it´s already official and i´m pretty sure and didn´t get things wrong...

cheers
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Sun Mar 16, 2003 12:15 am

**Before anyone says that Lufthansa must be on drugs, keep in mind that Colorado's 2nd largest minority are Germans after Hispanics. Primarily from the Bavarian region of Germany which is where Munich is located.**

If airlines decided that population of ethnic groups in a city was the reason they would expand their routes...

Then DTW would have more than one weekly Royal Jordanian A310 flight. Basically if that were the case then DTW would have daily flights from almost any of the majors from the Mideast because of Detroits large Middle Eastern population and yes a majority are recent immigrants or 2nd generation, unlike the Germans in Colorado that have been there since the 1800s.

If that were a reason to expand, then large cities like Detroit, LA, Chicago and whoever else has a large African American population should see flights from SAA etc regularly too.
 
klwright69
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Sun Mar 16, 2003 2:24 am

An ethnic population centers is generally not the driving force behind route decisions. If that were the case Denver would have multiple daily frequencies to Mexico with widebody aircraft due to all the Mexicans.

BA, I live in Denver just like you do. I don't have the exact number of German immigrants in Colorado at my fingertips. But I can talk about my experience. I have lived in Colorado 20 years. The number of times I have been out in public and have heard German being spoken I can count on one or two hands. I think I once heard German spoken in a German restaurant recently. Maybe BA lives in a German enclave I don't know about.

A long time ago UA had daily 757 service from IAD to SAL. I nearly laughed out loud when someone wrote a post that said that the route would probably be successful because of all the native Salvadorans in the DC area. The route was there and gone in the blink of an eye.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In Expanding DEN

Sun Mar 16, 2003 2:54 am

A long time ago UA had daily 757 service from IAD to SAL. I nearly laughed out loud when someone wrote a post that said that the route would probably be successful because of all the native Salvadorans in the DC area. The route was there and gone in the blink of an eye.

Likely because TACA serves the IAD-SAL market just fine with a huge following in Washington D.C's huge Salvadorian community, which is just as large as those in Miami and Los Angeles.
a.
 
gigneil
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RE: Lufthansa "strongly" Interested In E

Sun Mar 16, 2003 2:57 am

DC, and that route in specific, is a poor example to compare to Denver. But its a poor example in favor of the argument, not against it.

The foreign cultures in DC are much more current, active, and connected to their homelands than the foreign cultures in other parts of the US except perhaps New York.

Also, listing immigrant populations in the US that, on average, remain below the poverty line isn't a good example of why there aren't more flights to their homelands.

Denver does have a strong German business tie, and of course there's always the United connection here. That's probably what counts most.

N

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