MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 24612
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

MIA In Talks With Kenyan Aviation Aut. For MIA-NBO

Thu Mar 13, 2003 8:19 am

Talks are early and it would still take at the minimum 18 months (not to mention a rebound in air traffic). Nothing is certain, but it sure is nice to know Kenya Airways is looking at MIA seriously. MIA is also trying very hard to gain a direct link to Lagos and bring back it's direct links to South Africa (Miami has the world's largest South African community outside of South Africa). They have already met with Kenyan officals, and will meet with Nigerian and South African officials in April. Miami's African community is not huge, but one of the fastest growing in the US. Miami's African business community, however, and business/export ties with Africa are some of the strongest in the US. Miami is also a top vacation destination for wealthy African tourists. Article from today's Miami Today News:


Miami International paves way for African airlines to add direct routes

By Paola Iuspa
County aviation officials are actively courting African airlines to add flights from Miami International Airport and create direct routes to Kenya, Nigeria and South Africa.
Miguel Southwell, Miami-Dade Aviation Department assistant director in charge of business development, two weeks ago went to Nairobi, where he said he shared statistics and a business plan with Kenya Airways. The African airline officials, he said, are interested in creating direct flights to link eastern Africa to Miami.
Currently passengers from MIA must change planes in Europe to go to Nairobi. Mr. Southwell said he is to address aviation officials in Nigeria April 7-8 and in South Africa April 10-11.
The business plan presented to Kenya Airways was prepared by SH&E Inc., consultants the aviation department hired to weigh demand for new routes and conduct feasibility studies. SH&E is also working on similar proposals for Nigerian and South African airlines.
The aviation department signed a $620,000, three-year contract with SH&E to identify 26 potential international routes, including those to Africa, and six low-fare domestic carriers, Mr. Southwell said.
"They will help us develop 10 new international routes during the first year, eight during the second year and eight during the third year," he said. "They would also help us identify two low-fare carriers for each of the three years."
"In Kenya, Mr. Southwell gave an excellent presentation with statistics" and reading material for Kenyan officials to analyze, said Dorothy Baker,
Miami-Dade Chamber of Commerce president and CEO. Her chamber organized the mission, which was focused on the aviation and education industries.
The Kenya National Chamber of Commerce and Industry, the chamber's counterpart in Nairobi, welcomed the group's idea of connecting aviation officials and helped set up industry meetings, she said. About 16 Miami-Dade entrepreneurs went on the trip, which took nine hours from Miami to Amsterdam, where they waited three hours and changed planes, and almost eight hours from there to Nairobi, Ms. Baker said.
Mr. Southwell told Kenyan officials that direct flights to Miami would help foster trade, cargo and tourism opportunities between the destinations. The Greater Miami Convention & Visitors Bureau, also represented, backed his statement by saying it would invite Miami and Kenyan travel agents to visit and get acquainted with both regions to be able to sell travel packages to both locations, said Karen Jackson, bureau vice president of operation.
"The bureau formed a partnership with Miami-Dade Aviation Department and is working on several things," she said. "Our goal is to increase air travel traffic into Miami."
Mr. Southwell said he was impressed in Nairobi by his warm reception, especially for a pro-business environment and "sense of renewal" that reigned during the mission.
"They packed the house," Ms. Baker said. "They were hungry for knowledge."
The African nation three months ago elected president Mwai Kibaki, the leader of the National Rainbow Coalition, which defeated the Kenya African National Union party after 40 years of rule.
"Kenya Airways officials promised to analyze the information I gave them," Mr. Southwell said.
If the airline decides to fly to Miami, it could take 18 months to three years to develop the route. The line would need to acquire at least two planes and invest about $500 million, Mr. Southwell said.
Kenya aviation officials, he said, could use the business plan he shared with them to secure financing.
a.
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: MIA In Talks With Kenyan Aviation Aut. For MIA-NBO

Thu Mar 13, 2003 8:26 am

County aviation officials are actively courting African airlines to add flights from Miami International Airport and create direct routes to Kenya, Nigeria and South Africa.
So it's MIA going after Kenyan more than Kenyan looking at MIA-a small but quite important difference.MIA's courting of new airlines seems similar to that of DEN.However,SAA seems more likely to be able to fill the void if the demand is there.
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: MIA In Talks With Kenyan Aviation Aut. For MIA-NBO

Thu Mar 13, 2003 8:36 am

I think it would be a good route, perhaps it would help out Kenya.
Go big or go home
 
chepos
Posts: 5941
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RE: MIA In Talks With Kenyan Aviation Aut. For MIA-NBO

Thu Mar 13, 2003 8:45 am

Didn't Air Namibia have serious intentions of starting a MIA-Windhoek flight (whatever happened to that). I read on an article Kenya Airways wasn't all that interested in starting service to the U.S.A , so It's sort of surprising they are considering MIA. Nigeria is a whole other deal - Nigeria Airways is having difficulty maintaining its flights to LHR and JFK -so they would have to reorganize themselves before they can start flying to MIA. On the other hand Ethiopian Airlines was talking about looking at other U.S. Gateways - maybe the MIami airport auhtorities should talk to them . Ghana Airways is another alternative.
Chepos
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 24612
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: MIA In Talks With Kenyan Aviation Aut. For MIA-NBO

Thu Mar 13, 2003 9:09 am

Didn't Air Namibia have serious intentions of starting a MIA-Windhoek flight (whatever happened to that).

Yes, once or twice a week, routed Windhoek-Walhavis Bay-Miami-Houston. Oil traffic picked up in Houston, tourist traffic picked up in Miami. Don't exactly know what happened, was planned around 1999.

As for African airlines to Miami. The US-Africa market will be growing by large amounts in the next decade, and MIA wants to get in on it early. As I've stated, they offer a viable option for African carriers and hopefully some will take advantage of it.

Ethiopian Airways has been looking at adding US destinations, but I don't think Miami has been one of them. Ghana Airways has been looking at adding US destinations, too, and while MIA could work out, they are in no position to add any new inter-continental routes. The routes that would work best, demand wise, are MIA-CPT, MIA-JNB, and MIA-DKR. SAA returning to South Florida is a sure thing in the near future, but the thing is, SAA is on very good terms with FLL officials, and South Broward is currently where South Africans heading to Miami are moving (though the wealthier South Africans still reside in Coral Gables). I promise that MIA-CPT would be a gold mine for American Airlines, but they are in no condition to open up such a new market.
a.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: MIA In Talks With Kenyan Aviation Aut. For MIA-NBO

Thu Mar 13, 2003 9:28 am

Miami has the world's largest South African community outside of South Africa

IIRC, London bears that distinction, not Miami.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 24612
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: MIA In Talks With Kenyan Aviation Aut. For MIA-NBO

Thu Mar 13, 2003 9:35 am

Miami has the world's largest South African community outside of South Africa

IIRC, London bears that distinction, not Miami.


No doubt London has stronger ties with South Africa than Miami, both politcal and culture wise. Miami does bear the distinction, or at least it did in 2000. During the 1980s, a huge wave of South Africans, almost entirely middle-class and wealthy white South Africans, immigrated to Miami. Though even before as early as the 1920s, they were making thier mark in Miami. A whole section of Coral Gables is done in beautiful South African architectural style. However, Miami's South African community is not proud of thier heritage in any way what so ever, and often rather conform to the Miami lifestyle. I know many South Africans, but you couldn't tell unless they told you, many don't even have an accent anymore. Recent immigrants have been of lower and middle class and have settled in South Broward.
a.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: MIA In Talks With Kenyan Aviation Aut. For MIA-NBO

Thu Mar 13, 2003 9:36 am

I read on an article Kenya Airways wasn't all that interested in starting service to the U.S.A

KQ ordered their 772ERs with the specific intention of operating them to the USA. Too bad that they chose the Trent800, because if they plan on operating to MIA nonstop; they're probably going to need the 772LR, or face hefty weight restriction on their westbound flight.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
BA
Posts: 10134
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: MIA In Talks With Kenyan Aviation Aut. For MIA-NBO

Thu Mar 13, 2003 9:50 am

NBO-MIA is easily within the 772ER's range.

Infact, after flying NBO-MIA. It will have enough fuel to fly 900 miles more not including reserves.

Not to mention that they won't have to worry about headwinds on NBO-MIA because most of the flight over the Atlantic will be over the doldrum region.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: MIA In Talks With Kenyan Aviation Aut. For MIA-NBO

Thu Mar 13, 2003 9:56 am

BA, you're forgetting a few things:

  • KQ's current ships are powered by a weaker-than-highest thrust engine option; which could limit MTOW and potentially range
  • KQ would either have to acquire the use of ETOPS180 from their own respected power-that-be (the FAA only permits its use over the N. Pacific for USA carriers) or circle around the ETOPS138 dead-zone in the mid-Atlantic
  • the headwinds would be limited, but still enough to restrict the flight's performance (e.g., SA's flights are still affected)
  • Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
     
    BA
    Posts: 10134
    Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

    RE: MIA In Talks With Kenyan Aviation Aut. For MIA-NBO

    Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:06 am

    KQ's current ships are powered by a weaker-than-highest thrust engine option; which could limit MTOW and potentially range

    This would mean the aircraft will require a longer take-off roll. However, the reason why they got the weaker thrust engine is for increased fuel economy. This will limit payload capacity and will mean the aircraft will require a longer take-off run. But it will still be able to reach SA - Florida">MIA non-stop. However range difference between the weaker thrust rating and the higher thrust rating will be minimal.

    KQ would either have to acquire the use of ETOPS180 from their own respected power-that-be (the FAA only permits its use over the N. Pacific for USA carriers) or circle around the ETOPS138 dead-zone in the mid-Atlantic

    True, they would require ETOPs 180.

    the headwinds would be limited, but still enough to restrict the flight's performance (e.g., SA's flights are still affected)

    Like I said, most of the flight will fly over doldrums. Strong headwinds are always from the westerly winds which are located in the north.

    NBO-SA - Florida">MIA is only 6,900nm. The 772ER can fly 7,730nm.

    It will be able to make the flight.
    "Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
     
    ConcordeBoy
    Posts: 16852
    Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

    RE: MIA In Talks With Kenyan Aviation Aut. For MIA-NBO

    Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:26 am

    NBO-SA - Florida">SA - Florida">MIA is only 6,900nm. The 772ER can fly 7,730nm.

    Your forgetting the significant amount of fuel which must be saved for GAs and potential ETOPS diversions as well.... that, combined with still-air, and potential payload restriction would lead me to believe they'd probably want to use something more.

    But if push came to shove... payload restricted Trent892-powered 772ER could get the job done, but at what cost?
    Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
     
    BA
    Posts: 10134
    Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

    RE: MIA In Talks With Kenyan Aviation Aut. For MIA-NBO

    Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:28 am

    Your forgetting the significant amount of fuel which must be saved for GAs and potential ETOPS diversions as well.... that, combined with still-air, and potential payload restriction would lead me to believe they'd probably want to use something more.

    It really depends. Some airlines fly there aircraft near to there limits. Others don't. It really depends on the airline. If Kenya really is serious about serving MIA, they're going to have to OR have the flight stop somewhere on the way.

    Possibly Ivory Coast would be good. NBO-ABJ-MIA.
    "Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
     
    aio86
    Posts: 910
    Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 12:16 pm

    RE: MIA In Talks With Kenyan Aviation Aut. For MIA-NBO

    Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:37 am

    If they want more money on the route and MIA is courting Nigeria also, what if Kenya Air were to fly NBO-LOS-MIA. They'd have much more passengers and it'd (sort of) be on the way. There wouldn't be the issue with range and as long as they could get 5th freedom rights between Kenya and Nigeria and Nigeria and the US, they'd be fine.

    It's a posibility...

    -aio86
     
    Flyer732
    Posts: 1321
    Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 6:09 am

    RE: MIA In Talks With Kenyan Aviation Aut. For MIA-NBO

    Thu Mar 13, 2003 4:39 pm

    Ghana has mentioned a few times recently that they'd like to start service to ATL.
    SAA has also been known to mention Dakkar to Atlanta service with either 743 or 744...

    I wouldn't mind seeing some of those birds in MIA, make the January tour even better.
     
    ConcordeBoy
    Posts: 16852
    Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

    RE: MIA In Talks With Kenyan Aviation Aut. For MIA-NBO

    Thu Mar 13, 2003 5:34 pm

    If Kenya really is serious about serving MIA, they're going to have to OR have the flight stop somewhere on the way

    ...or, they could order a 772LR and not have to worry about any of that if they dont want to  Big grin
    Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
     
    UN_B732
    Posts: 3529
    Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 12:57 am

    RE: MIA In Talks With Kenyan Aviation Aut. For MIA-NBO

    Thu Mar 13, 2003 9:53 pm

    Talk about Limits, I've flown A310s New York-Moscow non-stop.
    -Transaero Boeing 737-200
    What now?