Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 4:55 pm


Thu Mar 13, 2003 6:24 pm

I recently did a lot of flights (international and domestic) with Air New Zealand (see recently filed trip report LHR-HKG-SIN-AKL-RAR-LAX-SFO-LHR) and had a very good discussion with an Aussie FA on the RAR-LAX sector.

Back home I did some checking and comfirmed that Air New Zealand has 5th freedom rights though Hong Kong (excellant airport) but does not use them. The FA said it was thought that Air NZ was thinking about doing round the world (AKL-LAX-LHR-HKG-AKL and reverse) but because of the Ansett woes nothing happened.

Given that Mr Norris has publicly stated that the Air NZ international routes are under review and might change I have a couple of comments:

1. Given that no Star Alliance member flys a LHR-HKG sector (I think I' right in saying this) surely this could be a profitable sector of Air NZ to fly (feeds from all other Star Alliance members, competing with airlines with higher operational costs BA, VS, CX(?))

2. I realise that with just 8 744s Air NZ couldn't physically schedule the route and keep other interational route commitment going so:

How many 744's would be required to do this round the world route ? I've done some scribblings and think 6 aircraft would cover it (but I'm not sure what you do when it comes to engineering checks) - (also I'm not being baised against Airbus - just thinking about redeployment of exisitng resources - of course if Air NZ had the cash (which I don't think it has) to buy a fleet of A346/A380.......)

Which international routes could be for the chop ? From my experience LHR and LAX would seem safe (just from the loads I've seen). I thought flights to Japan were supposed to also have high loads - so whats left with 744 utilisation ?

Over to the forum knowledge and experience.......
742; 744; DC10, DC3, 321, 320, 319, 170,190, 772, 773,333, 346, 343
Posts: 5581
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm


Thu Mar 13, 2003 7:04 pm

Last I heard was quite a while ago but they were (are) still planning to do HKG-LHR.

To operate this route daily in both directions they would probably need 3 additional 747-400's.

As for routes to be chopped I doubt there is many maybe TPE in Asia? The others like KIX, NRT, NGO, HKG and SIN are usually pretty full year round. The short haul International network is to be reviewed this year! The arrival of the A320's will be good and interesting! AKL-SYD is the first route starting October 26th 2003! Not sure if all will have J class or not though for Pacific Island flights.

The 744 routes are from AKL, to SYD, NAN, NRT, KIX, LAX, LHR now.
For the Northern Summer there will be BNE, NRT, LAX, LHR also CHC on NRT-AKL flights routing some days is NRT-CHC-AKL year round!

Long Haul International routes should be reviewed next year some time, I wonder if we will see an A330, 340 or 777 order?
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 4:55 pm


Thu Mar 13, 2003 7:38 pm

I seem to remember that Mr Norris announced at a press conference (think it was last years AGM?) that the new A320s woudl be configured with a 24 seat J class product. What that J product will be.......

From the information about the 744 utilisations provided and that Air NZ will need another 3 to do the LHR-HKG sector it seems unlikely that Air NZ will be able to offer 'round the world' any time soon. While the compnay looks on the right tracks its not really out of the woods yet and spending large amounts of capital is probably not possible (credit rating is B/C compared with, for example Qantas, which is A/A+).

Still if AirNZ could 'pick-up'/lease some cheap 744s they may spring a surpise on everyone. UA have already removed some 744s to Thai, why not Air NZ. Even a 2/3 year lease would allow Air NZ to try the service (giving enough time to build and develop the operation). At the end of the lease Air NZ, given that it is once again a top 10 airline with the finances to back it up) can lease/buy its own additional aircraft to operate the route.

The more I think about it the LHR-HKG sector does look good for Air NZ. Even their new best friend Qantas could benefit from feed PAX from LHR (might be a small number I know as they operate direct via SIN, but PAX is PAX) onto Sydney and Melbourne flights.

Does any other airline offer (without resorting to partners and alliances) the ability to fly around the world ?
742; 744; DC10, DC3, 321, 320, 319, 170,190, 772, 773,333, 346, 343
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2001 11:29 pm


Fri Mar 14, 2003 10:08 am

I've heard some rumours that NZ was looking at HKG-LHR if the deal with QF goes through. QF has been making quite a bit of noise about wanting flights through HKG so i really wouldnt be supprised to see a NZ aircraft flying HKG-LHR carrying NZ and QF codes.

:D i love rumours Big grin
I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. Jerome K Jerome
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 4:55 pm


Fri Mar 14, 2003 6:39 pm

Does the big Q not have 5th freedom right through Hong Kong then ? How come Air NZ does ? Geographically and politically they are not a million miles apart ?
742; 744; DC10, DC3, 321, 320, 319, 170,190, 772, 773,333, 346, 343
Posts: 515
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2002 3:07 pm


Fri Mar 14, 2003 8:10 pm

Qantas does not have 5th freedom rights to fly on from Hong Kong. The Aussie Govt is trying to get these for QF.

I would say that if the Air NZ / QF partnership gets up you will see Air NZ commence HKG to LHR services over the medium term. Before they do they will have to upgrade their product with a decent IFE system and J sleeper beds to compete.

Qantas currently puts alot of people on the BA services as many would rather a HKG stopover than Singapore or Bangkok.

Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 4:55 pm


Fri Mar 14, 2003 8:22 pm

How would BA (or CX - OneWorld partner) feel about loosing PAX to Air NZ (still Star Alliance)? Not to mention how they would feel about QF introducing further competition on an important route ?

Presumably Qantas would earn more revenue per PAX by placing on Air NZ rather than BA or CX, because of 22% ownership. But then BA owns part of QF. My brains starting to hurt.

742; 744; DC10, DC3, 321, 320, 319, 170,190, 772, 773,333, 346, 343

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