WhalePilot
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2001 12:28 am

UPS 777F?

Wed Mar 19, 2003 12:38 pm

Rumor has it that on March 25, Boeing will announce that UPS will be the launch customer for the 777F. Has anyone else heard anything like this? The rumor does not specify which 777 variant, but supposedly UPS is to also announce a new paint scheme with a revised logo.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: UPS 777F?

Wed Mar 19, 2003 12:41 pm

A few weeks ago their was some talk about this. Do a search, I recall it was a pretty big thread.
 
BlatantEcho
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RE: UPS 777F?

Wed Mar 19, 2003 12:43 pm

wasn't the 777F to be based on the 772LR?

I think that is what I had read and heard rumored.

George
They're not handing trophies out today
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: UPS 777F?

Wed Mar 19, 2003 1:09 pm

well, the current buzz from be bees is that the 777F will be a 90T+ freighter based on the 772LR airframe and engines.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
gigneil
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RE: UPS 777F?

Wed Mar 19, 2003 2:09 pm

I guess UPS has been unable to acquire enough M11Fs.

Talk about a hodgepodge fleet... if it carries cargo, UPS flies it.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

This really baffles me... as has been mentioned before, 772LRs and 773ERs are the most expensive airframes Boeing sells. UPS must be doing very well if they're gonna shell out the money for this aircraft.

On the other hand, its very exciting for the next generation 777 program...

Airbus needs to come forward with an alternative - they've been biding their time riding on the sucess of the A300F4-600R. Either the A340-500 or A340-600 will make a fine freighter.

N
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: UPS 777F?

Wed Mar 19, 2003 2:35 pm

Airbus is supposedly concentrating on an 330-based freighter.... no mention of a A340F. One thing's for sure... certainly wouldnt be based on an A343 should they do so :p
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
gigneil
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RE: UPS 777F?

Wed Mar 19, 2003 2:42 pm

There is much talk of a completely ready for launch A330-200F.

Problem is - it'd be limited to a payload of about 65-70t. Hardly an effective competitor, but more than a match for the poor 767-300F
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: UPS 777F?

Wed Mar 19, 2003 2:44 pm

exactly.

Problem with an A345F as opposed to a 772LRF is that the carrier would be paying a lot more just for the weight of the airframe, as opposed to addtional cargo weight.... remains to be seen whether the A345's higher interior volume could compensate.

Add to that less capable performance than the 777, and you dont have much of a winning situation  Sad
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
gigneil
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RE: UPS 777F?

Wed Mar 19, 2003 2:50 pm

Hah the fractionally less capable performance...

...and as we know, cargo haulers don't worry so much about individual airframe performance due to the high dollar density of their cargo.

N
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: UPS 777F?

Wed Mar 19, 2003 2:53 pm

I wouldnt call 500mi range and 18ton cargo capability "fractional".... that's basically the difference between the 744AF and 744ERF as well!!!
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
JvW
Posts: 171
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2001 12:57 am

RE: UPS 777F?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 7:48 am

Well, the B747s and DC8s are about to be phased out over the long term future; a replacement is needed in order to fill the gaps. UPS did a great job in getting both the B767F and B757F programs started why not do the same with the B777-ERF, which would be perfect. I heard the same rumors about the new aircraft here in Louisville, a good friend of mine will actually be at the ceremony @ SDF and and more rumors call for one of UPS aircraft flying into SDF @ 9am (25th) with their new colors. Not quite sure how much weight this has. Same with the logo and the uniforms, all will be updated. I will be @ SDF next Tuesday morning for sure.

JvW
 
United777
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RE: UPS 777F?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 8:08 am

I've heard EK is also in serious talks with Boeing to convert there 772 aircraft to 772F aircraft.
 
777D
Posts: 285
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RE: UPS 777F?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 8:17 am

As mentioned above with the phasing out of the 727 and 747, is UPS planning on running a 2 engine fleet with a few MD11s interspersed?

I assume the DC-8s are gone or leaving soon?





 
usairways85
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RE: UPS 777F?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 8:23 am

I dont think the 727's are leaving soon, didn't they just fit them with new cockpits so they should be good for a while. Anyway they need a good plane like that to carry smaller loads rather than using 757's and 767's on those routes.
 
srbmod
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RE: UPS 777F?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 8:58 am

UPS wasn't the major parcel carrier buying up the MD-11s. FedEx was buying (or had agreed to buy a large number of MD-11s from passenger airlines); UPS was buying them as well, but just not in the numbers FedEx was. This decision may be a long-term financial decision, because it may be cheaper for them to get new-build a/c than to get older a/c that are passenger versions, and then pay to have the conversions done.
 
gigneil
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RE: UPS 777F?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 1:05 pm

I think no matter how you slice it, buying a used frame and converting it will be much cheaper than any derivative freighter based on one of Boeing's most expensive aircraft.

N
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: UPS 777F?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 1:13 pm

no doubt they'd get rather spectacular pricing for launching the model... assuming they do.

EK and LH-Cargo (yep, you heard me right-- LH!) have also expressed high interest in a 777LRF
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
gigneil
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RE: UPS 777F?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 1:15 pm

I wonder what it will do to Boeing's ability to place new aircraft if EK starts selling off all their Trent 892 powered planes so that they can pursue a GE-powered strategy?

N
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: UPS 777F?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 1:17 pm

well, for one thing, EK's 772ERs are powered by the Trent890 (as opposed to what the incredibly incorrect 777 census depicts) and there are a number of carriers with Trent892-powered 773As that might like some.

Either that, or EK might keep the 773As as GE does not currently offer an engine for the 773A.... not to say that they wont put one on the table [again] though.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
gigneil
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RE: UPS 777F?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 1:21 pm

There's no technical reason the GE90-94B can't power a 773A very capably. It would merely need certification.

If they start packing on 773ERs, I could see them discarding the 773As.

N
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: UPS 777F?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 1:25 pm

of course there's no reason... GE did in the past offer the GE90-90B/92B for 773As, but no customer chose them and the offer was later withdrawn.

I could see EK operating 773As even after purchasing 773NGs as the former could most likely operate to central and Asia (in particular, India) and Europe more efficiently than its more powerful sister. That, and they could retain their sardine-can configuration while the 773ERs are configured in a more ergonomically pleasing manner.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
LMP737
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RE: UPS 777F?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 1:43 pm

This is the first I've heard of a UPS 777F launch order. However I know that Emirates has put some pressure on Boeing to develop a 777F. Maybe these two carriers together can generate enough of a business case for Boeing to do just that.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
gigneil
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RE: UPS 777F?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:07 pm

Concordeboy-

Or, they could use the increased MTOW of the 773ER to pack absolutely as many pax as the certification authority will allow AND carry even more cargo in the hold.

Hmm?  Big grin

N
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: UPS 777F?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:22 pm

Touche'!  Laugh out loud:D

~*filler*~
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
lanperu
Posts: 602
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RE: UPS 777F?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 3:13 pm

I would still like to see a 777M (combi) it can be based on the 772LR frame but with the whole combi config. It would be cool, maybe more airlines would see it attractive.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: UPS 777F?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 3:21 pm

doubt it... Combi's are difficult to successfully operate as a carrier has to carefully balance the economics and operating factors of Cargo and Pax operation at the same time. Tricky
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
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yyz717
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RE: UPS 777F?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 3:29 pm

doubt it... Combi's are difficult to successfully operate as a carrier has to carefully balance the economics and operating factors of Cargo and Pax operation at the same time. Tricky

True, but if there is a demand, Boeing will build it. The 742Combi & 744Combi have both sold reasonably well....no reason why the 772Combi might not also sell well.

Neil.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
gigneil
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RE: UPS 777F?

Fri Mar 21, 2003 3:56 pm

Hmmm.... isn't the FAA violently opposed to cargo and pax on the same deck these days?

N
 
sllevin
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RE: UPS 777F?

Sat Mar 22, 2003 12:01 am

The trouble with UPS acquiring used 90 ton freighters is that the availability of MD-11's simply isn't there.

In addition, right now, when one can get good deals, why not strike a good deal for new aircraft. In the long run, a lot of net costs balance out -- used aircraft do not depreciate in price like used cars, where one has the old adage that a new car merely driven off the dealer's lot loses a lot of value. Thus, there's still value in having an airframe that can be flown 8-10 years longer than the used option.

Steve
 
WhalePilot
Posts: 91
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RE: UPS 777F?

Sat Mar 22, 2003 12:44 am

Sllevin, this whole topic is about UPS purchasing NEW 777 freighters, not more USED MD-11s.
 
gigneil
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Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: UPS 777F?

Sat Mar 22, 2003 2:09 am

Hmm... no I said that I thought it was stupid that they were buying new planes not used planes, and I think he was responding to me.

They could get 742s or even some 744s for the price of a new 772LR.

But if they get a great deal, then they should indeed go for it.

N
 
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yyz717
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RE: UPS 777F?

Sat Mar 22, 2003 2:13 am

UPS has a very strong balance sheet.....they can easily afford new cargo aircraft. Also, with their increased focus on time delivery commitments (a la Fedex), they have a need for reliable new generation aircraft.

Neil.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Spacepope
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RE: UPS 777F?

Sat Mar 22, 2003 2:18 am

What is the status of the UPS 741 fleet? It was reported on here that 2 were to be permanantly parked at ROW, unless they were to be called up for CRAF duty, which would most likely be their final duties.

Another good question is this: What are the fleet leaders in numbers of hours per type? As 747s near 100,000 hours they tend to be scrapped. How close are the UPS planes to this mark?

T.J.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: UPS 777F?

Sat Mar 22, 2003 2:20 am

One thing about the 772LR program is that Boeing has repeatedly offered to speed it up should a carrier desire. UPS could actually launch the airframe if that's what they were interested in doing!
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
BrowntailWhale
Posts: 182
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RE: UPS 777F?

Sat Mar 22, 2003 5:17 am

To answer an above question, the current lineup of UPS 747-100s are as follows: N672UP, N673UP, N675UP, N676UP, N677UP, N680UP, N681UP, N682UP, N683UP. N671UP and N674UP are in storage at ROW, however since their heavy checks have not been complied with they cannot be brought back into service on short notice, therefore it's probable that they will be retired. N691UP was scrapped last year.

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