SN-A330
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How's Sobelair Doing On Johannesburg?

Tue Apr 01, 2003 5:54 am


Does anyone know how SLR is doing on their Johannesburg flight? Long time ago I heard anything about their load factors.

Regards, SN-A330
I would rather be flying...
 
Sabena 690
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RE: How's Sobelair Doing On Johannesburg?

Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:17 am

I read something they will start B763 flights to Zanzibar 1 time a week, with a B763.

Anyone with more info?

I guess they will use OO-IHV for this flight, since this bird isn't needed every day for the JNB flights?

Regards
Frederic
 
swissgabe
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RE: How's Sobelair Doing On Johannesburg?

Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:48 am

I have seen them in JNB a few weeks ago.

Is there really such a big demand in the Belgium market for a "charter" to South Africa?
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
Sabena 690
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RE: How's Sobelair Doing On Johannesburg?

Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:52 am

Hi Swissgabe,

Let's make clear: it is NOT a charter flight. It's a scheduled flight with the legspace, service,... of a scheduled airline!

Sobelair is not only a charter airline anymore!

Regards
Frederic
 
Guest

RE: How's Sobelair Doing On Johannesburg?

Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:59 am

Hello,

Why dont SN start a BRU-JNB route?

Regards
EAC_732
 
swissgabe
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RE: How's Sobelair Doing On Johannesburg?

Tue Apr 01, 2003 7:03 am

Thanks Frederic, didn't know that Sobelair isn't a charter anymore. But that makes sense, JNB isn't a charter destination. Are they working together with SNBA? Does Sobelair operate charters at all or only scheduled flights? Where else do they fly on long-haul?
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
SAA-SAL
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RE: How's Sobelair Doing On Johannesburg?

Tue Apr 01, 2003 7:05 am

Swissgabe , there is alot of demand for this route. Sabena was flying daily up untill 6 months before it's demise. Also don't forget that there are around 40000 Belgians living in SA (I was one of those lucky ones Big grin). In fact there was under capacity for quite sometime, during the whole of 2001 I think because quite a few European airlines pulled out of the SA market including Olympic , TAP , Austrian , Turkish , and Sabena. The reason being that they were selling their return tickets mostly from SA in local currency (the Rand) which was very weak , whereas their costs were in Dollars. People actually understood that it was cheaper to buy a single and then buy the return when they were in the country.

Cheers SAA-SAL
SAA B747 SP, Luxavia B747 SP
 
swissgabe
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RE: How's Sobelair Doing On Johannesburg?

Tue Apr 01, 2003 7:08 am

SAA-SAL
Didn't know that there are so many Belgians in South Africa 40'000 is quite a lot. Did/does SAA offer flights to BRU? Thanks for all other details provided ...
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
Established02
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RE: How's Sobelair Doing On Johannesburg?

Tue Apr 01, 2003 3:01 pm

> Did/does SAA offer flights to BRU?

SAA no longer flies to BRU.

SAA did offer weekly flights to BRU during some time in the eighties.
I remember a B747SP flight on wednesday doing BRU-FRA-JNB.
At other periods SAA was using the B742.
During this time SN operated 2 weekly B741 flights BRU-FIH-JNB.

 
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RE: How's Sobelair Doing On Johannesburg?

Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:19 pm

Hi Gabriël,

didn't know that Sobelair isn't a charter anymore.

Sobelair is still a charter airline for the biggest part, but now offers scheduled flights to JNB.

Are they working together with SNBA?

They only have an interline agreement, no codeshare agreement unfortunately. Working together on this route is what they have to do IMO!

Does Sobelair operate charters at all or only scheduled flights? Where else do they fly on long-haul?

The biggest part of SLR is a charter airline. For their charter services, they operate several B737's (-300 and -400), and 4 767-300's. One of those B763's (OO-IHV, ex HB-IHV) is used for the JNB flight (with the normal economy and business class every scheduled airline has).

Other long haul (charter) destinations: Mexico, Cuba, Kenya, and Paramaribo (from BRU and from AMS).

Why dont SN start a BRU-JNB route?

Probably because SN management found out that the yield on this route is too low. Maybe can Pressclub shed some light why SN doesn't put it's code on the SLR flight?

Regards
Frederic
 
SAA-SAL
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RE: How's Sobelair Doing On Johannesburg?

Tue Apr 01, 2003 7:30 pm

There used to be another carrier flying from Europe to SA that was very used by Belgians : Luxavia's twice weekly from LUX to JNB using a leased B747SP from SAA. I took that route quite a few times and remeber that LUX was hardly adapted to process so many people when the B747SP was there. This route was discontinued in 1991 I think.
SAA B747 SP, Luxavia B747 SP
 
pothiabs
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RE: How's Sobelair Doing On Johannesburg?

Tue Apr 01, 2003 7:34 pm

Reason why SNBA has declined the offer from SLR to codeshare on the BRU-JNB route is that the commercial strategy of SNBA is largely controlled by British Airways.

British Airways just attempts to fill up their own LHR-JNB flights through their feeder route BRU-LHR. (They do have the slots it takes, don't they !)
Another part of the BRU-JNB traffic is routed via ZRH. ( codeshares SWISS-SNBA on the Zürich route).

Some things never change....
 
swissgabe
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RE: How's Sobelair Doing On Johannesburg?

Tue Apr 01, 2003 7:37 pm

Thanks Frederic, now I'm well updated about Sobelair.
Is the Paramaribo flight going from BRU via AMS to Paramaribo or is the a non-stop connection between BRU and PBM? Are there a lot of Belgians living in Surinam as well, guess more Dutch.

SAA-SAL
Luxavia had anything to do with Luxair or was it a separate company?
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
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RE: How's Sobelair Doing On Johannesburg?

Tue Apr 01, 2003 8:55 pm

Hi Gabriël,

The flight to Paramariba from AMS and BRU is separated. I believe they fly 1 or two times a week from BRU to CUR, and now 6? times weekly from AMS to CUR (for a Dutch tour operator).

Although I have no information about Belgians living in the Dutch Antilles, I think that most the of the pax are leisure pax. From AMS it's different, since there is a big population of 'Surinamers' living in The Netherlands.

Those are all the long haul routes for SLR (from their website):
x VRA
x PUJ
x POP
x SDQ
x CUN
x MBA
x BON
x CUR
x JNB (no charter!)

Regards
Frederic
 
SAA-SAL
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RE: How's Sobelair Doing On Johannesburg?

Wed Apr 02, 2003 4:28 am

Swissgabe

Luxavia was linked to Luxair in some way. The colourscheme was identical except for the titles Luxavia in stead of Luxair. At some point I think that Luxair titles were aplied but I can confirm that with certainty
SAA B747 SP, Luxavia B747 SP
 
gkirk
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RE: How's Sobelair Doing On Johannesburg?

Wed Apr 02, 2003 8:57 am

Sorry Fred, but I have to point out one thing:
I read something they will start B763 flights to Zanzibar 1 time a week, with a B763

Were you drunk at the time?  Laugh out loud  Laugh out loud
I might be actually flying to JNB soon but I wont be flying via BRU for definite, its too expensive compared to flying via AMS,CDG or LHR.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
patroni
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RE: How's Sobelair Doing On Johannesburg?

Wed Apr 02, 2003 9:07 am

@SAA-SAL :

As far as I know the Luxavia flights were actually operated by Trek Airways, but under Luxembourgish registration and in Luxair colors due to overflight rights in Africa. It started with B707 and an A300 to finally being operated with a 747SP.

I have two photos in front of me, one showing a Luxair/Luxavia 707 in Mbabwane, the other showing the 747-SP44 LX-LGX in full Luxair colours (incl. Luxair title), taken in 1989.

Cheers,

Tom
 
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RE: How's Sobelair Doing On Johannesburg?

Wed Apr 02, 2003 5:40 pm

LOL Graham  Laugh out loud

About JNB, go to http://www.sobelair.be/jnb/en/BJ.htm, and ask about the promotions (you can send them an inquiry email). Around 500 Euro at the moment, tax inclusive!!

I wonder if you will find this on any other airline at this time  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Regards
Frederic
 
Com3205
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RE: How's Sobelair Doing On Johannesburg?

Wed Apr 02, 2003 5:49 pm

Hi Frederic
I've been told Sobelair didn't fly JNB for a few weeks, not enough pax.
The few pax where rerouted with another company.
Rumour????

Regards
 
Sabena 690
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RE: How's Sobelair Doing On Johannesburg?

Wed Apr 02, 2003 5:52 pm

Hi Com3205,

I don't have the time anymore to check biac.be every day, but in the past few weeks, I haven't seen cancelled flights of them. But it is possible since I don't check them a lot...

Regards
Frederic
 
kl713
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RE: How's Speller Doing On Johannesburg?

Thu Apr 03, 2003 1:34 am

SLR doesn't have operations to PBM, and I think they never had. Citybird had scheduled flights on behalf of a Dutch/Surinamese touroperator called Inter Tropical from BRU to PBM. Operations were suspended because of financial problems with the tour operator, and a few years ago they went bankrupt. The flight was mainly filled with Dutch Surinamese and a handfull of tourists from the Benelux. Inter Tropical provided bus services from Amsterdam and Rotterdam to BRU for the Dutch costumers. The only direct connection between Europe and Suriname is still the KLM/Surinam Airways operation AMS-PBM:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1051423/

SLR's scheduled flights to Curacao out of AMS are operated on behalf of Dutch Caribbean Airlines (former ALM) with DCA-flightnumbers. The flights are mainly filled with tourists and a lot of Dutch Antilleans....also a big community in the Netherlands. DCA is nowadays the biggest competitor to KLM. From Curacao, I heard some stories about a SLR 763 to be painted in DCA livery soon. Any more information on that? It has to look a little bit like this then:


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