B747-437B
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Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Fri Apr 04, 2003 5:46 pm

Air India's board will announce an order for 10 long-range widebody aircraft plus 7 options when it meets on Wednesday, April 9. The board today gave the go-ahead to consider the financial bids after reviewing the reccommendations of the Technical Committee who have studied the technical bid. The Technical Committee is rumored to have endorsed the Boeing 777-200ER over the rival product A340-300 offered by Airbus Industrie.

Once the Air India board has approved the order, it then proceeds to the Civil Aviation ministry for clearance. The ministry is expected to approve the order once it obtains the go-ahead from the Ministry of Disinvestment and the Cabinet Security Committee.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Fri Apr 04, 2003 5:50 pm

Is the Air-India BOD effectively independent from the govt? Any chance of govt interference in the decision?

Could the Civil Aviation ministry overrule a decision and impose an Airbus order for instance?

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Fri Apr 04, 2003 5:52 pm

The Board of Directors are all appointed by the Civil Aviation ministry.

The entire process is political.

The Civil Aviation ministry can overrule a decision and impose an order of their choice, but that is highly unlikely in this case as Indian Airlines has already committed to buying Airbus.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Fri Apr 04, 2003 5:55 pm

What's your opinion.....do you think the BOD will opt for Boeing?
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Fri Apr 04, 2003 5:59 pm

I think AI should choose the A340-300. Especially given that AI already has lots of experience flying Airbus planes.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Fri Apr 04, 2003 6:01 pm

Yes. I'm virtually certain that the endorsement will be for the Boeing 777-200ER. The only impediment will be if the Cabinet Security Committee refuses to allow the order to an American company in view of the current action in Iraq (which is a distinct possibility). Nonetheless, the announcement of the 777 selection will be made on Wednesday in all likelihood.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
United777
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Fri Apr 04, 2003 6:02 pm

B747-437B - Is there any reason why AI never considered the newer 777's or A340's?

----

I think the 772ER is best for AI! I can't wait to see the AI livery on the 777!
 
kaitak
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Fri Apr 04, 2003 9:30 pm

Rumour has it that TG is making an order for A340-5/600s the same day, so there should be good news all around.

Of course, plenty for the Indian civil service to make mischief about . . .
 
The777Man
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Sat Apr 05, 2003 3:05 am

Thanks for the update Sean! Eagerly waiing for the announcement. If they do get the 777, maybe we could fly on an Air-India 777 together someday, Sean ?

The777Man
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Sat Apr 05, 2003 4:24 am

but wait... is it over yet: we still have engine choice for AI to mull over!  Laugh out loud


Of course, if they have any sense, they'd choose the GE90-94B.... though I get the feeling that the British company will also throw in a heavy bid for the lackluster Trent895 as well
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jaysit
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Sat Apr 05, 2003 4:55 am

I'll believe it when I see an AI Boeing 777.

Until then I am sure that the various Committees of men in dhotis overseeing the committee of men in safari suits overseeing the committee of men who don't use deodorant will continue to make mischief.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Sun Apr 06, 2003 3:37 am

The board meeting has been postponed to Saturday April 12.

There is a press conference called for that evening to announce the selection, so I guess we are finally entering the home stretch.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Sun Apr 06, 2003 5:34 am

Of course, if they have any sense, they'd choose the GE90-94B.... though I get the feeling that the British company will also throw in a heavy bid for the lackluster Trent895 as well

Perhaps you could back up your ridiculous opinions for the benefit of those of us that are puzzled as to why you think the GE90-94B, weighing nearly 35% more than the "lackluster" Trent, holding a dispatch reliability record not even close to the Trent, is the only decent choice for the 777.

Your GE90 fetish is well documented on FlyerTalk, so maybe you could explain it, once and for all.

Cheers
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The777Man
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Sun Apr 06, 2003 9:08 am

Thanks for the update! Still hoping for the 777 regardless of engine but I guess things could change. Looking forward to an official announcement.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Sun Apr 06, 2003 9:38 am

Perhaps you could back up your ridiculous opinions for the benefit of those of us that are puzzled as to why you think the GE90-94B, weighing nearly 35% more than the "lackluster" Trent, holding a dispatch reliability record not even close to the Trent, is the only decent choice for the 777.

Well, if you read more carefully... you'd notice I said "lackluster Trent895", which (to dumb it down for some of the more "simple" types  Insane) indicates that I was referring specifically to that particular engine variant; whose utter lack of both competitve sales to the GE90-94B and commonality with the powerplant of the exclusively-GE90 powered Longer Range 777s has a high chance of making it less than the optimal choice for new 777 customers.




the GE90-94B *** holding a dispatch reliability record not even close to the Trent

Taking into account the recent Metco58 fiasco, I'd love to see your corroboration for this.....
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Sun Apr 06, 2003 12:10 pm

Some leftists and our very own Mahesh Bhatt are writing to the Finance Ministry to boycott American products, including Boeing.

Will this affect the decision?

I certainly think that in light of the events in Iraq, a boycott of American goods and services would be the most appropriate thing to do.

-Roy
 
N79969
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Sun Apr 06, 2003 12:13 pm

Yes, that's exactly what India should do. Isolating itself economically from the US will do wonders for the Indian GDP and growth rates.

Air India has one of the best liveries ever. I hope they go with the Boeing products.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Sun Apr 06, 2003 12:47 pm

Hopefully Air-India will be able to order the aircraft that suits its network, not the whims of the Indian government.

I certainly think that in light of the events in Iraq, a boycott of American goods and services would be the most appropriate thing to do.

Really? Why don't you start by boycotting the internet then? Since it's an American invention.


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
lutfi
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Mon Apr 07, 2003 10:38 am

The world wide web though is a British invention... (Tim Berners Lee, while working ar CERN)
 
flyguy1
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Mon Apr 07, 2003 10:50 am

Some leftists and our very own Mahesh Bhatt are writing to the Finance Ministry to boycott American products, including Boeing.

Will this affect the decision?

I certainly think that in light of the events in Iraq, a boycott of American goods and services would be the most appropriate thing to do.


Yes, boycott the terrible Americans who are helping free Iraqi citizens from the paradise known as rule under Saddamn Hussein. Lots of brain washed ppl out there it seems...
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:13 am

Come on people, it's Indianguy/Roy for cryin' out loud.... what would you expect, a sensible opinionated comment?  Laugh out loud


Sadly, however... in light of recent boycotts of Americana in France, Indonesia, and the Philippines; a case could be made for a spite toward Boeing in AI's order. However, I cant imagine they'd be so foolish as to allow such a petty disagreement (if indeed, one truly even exists!) to take precedence over such factors as costs, finance options, ease of integration, potential discounts, etc

[Edited 2003-04-07 04:19:49]
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
jaysit
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:25 am

"Some leftists and our very own Mahesh Bhatt are writing to the Finance Ministry to boycott American products, including Boeing."

Those very Indian socialists who left India broke, poverty stricken, and endemic with corruption? And Mahesh Bhatt, purveyor of terrible movies? Please. Irrespective of how one feels about this war, a boycott of much needed American hardware is hardly in India's interest. However, given the reasonable foreign policy of the current coalition government viz a viz the US, I doubt they will project a highly unlikely A340 purchase as an American boycott.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:38 am

The Airbus A340 contains a signif amount of US technology & components.

A true American boycott would dictate an Ilyushin IL-96 order!

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Airbus Lover
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Mon Apr 07, 2003 2:19 pm

I'd LOOOOOVE to see an Air India IL96M  Big thumbs up
 
akelley728
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Tue Apr 08, 2003 3:07 am

The Airbus A340 contains a signif amount of US technology & components.

A true American boycott would dictate an Ilyushin IL-96 order!


If I remember right the IL-96 bid for this Air India order was to have P&W engines and Rockwell avionics!
 
donder10
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Tue Apr 08, 2003 4:17 am

Will these be for starting new routes or to replace the 310s?


The world wide web though is a British invention... (Tim Berners Lee, while working ar CERN

It's an Al Gore invention!

 
AI744LR
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RE: Air India To Pull Out Of Hong Kong After 49 Ye

Fri Apr 11, 2003 7:59 am

Well folks, it's the morning of April 11, 2003 in India. Any updates on what happened on the 9th?

Waiting to hear more.

Thanks.
 
Airbus Lover
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Fri Apr 11, 2003 12:52 pm

AI744LR,

The board meeting has been postponed to Saturday April 12.
-B747-437B

Read carefully next time!!!  Laugh out loud
 
United777
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Fri Apr 11, 2003 1:01 pm

We could hear the news as soon as tomorrow night here in the US.
 
ammunition
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Sat Apr 12, 2003 6:00 pm

the 12th has arrived, and its approaching late afternoon/evening in india, has a decision been made?

Amo...... still waiting........ for AI's decision
Saint Augustine- 'The world is a book and those who do not travel, read only 1 page'
 
B747-437B
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Sat Apr 12, 2003 6:32 pm

Patience children, patience. As soon as we know something for sure I will be among the first to know and the first to post it here.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Sun Apr 13, 2003 4:04 am

Well, if you read more carefully... you'd notice I said "lackluster Trent895", which (to dumb it down for some of the more "simple" types ) indicates that I was referring specifically to that particular engine variant; whose utter lack of both competitve sales to the GE90-94B and commonality with the powerplant of the exclusively-GE90 powered Longer Range 777s has a high chance of making it less than the optimal choice for new 777 customers.

Thanks for your feeble attempt to "dumb it down" for me. Unfortunately, the drivel you managed to scratch out for me did not make much sense. According to your brilliant explanation, the GE90-94B is a better powerplant from a technical perspective because GE has managed to sell more of them than Rolls has sold Trent 895s. How then do you explain the fact that more 777s currently in service are powered by Rolls-Royce powerplants than either GE or PW?

As to your alarmist mention of the Metco58 "fiasco," perhaps you should think about whether or not it is a "fiasco." No crashes, deaths, or injuries are directly attributable to the Emirates incident or any other incident. There was a problem which was diagnosed and Rolls corrected it. Every engine in service has had a problem at one point or another. Surely you haven't forgotten the well documented teething problems of the GE90.

Rolls has more engines in service, has flown more hours, and, as proven by a number of orders that shocked and surprised the aviation world, as well as customer feedback, the Trent seems to be an excellent powerplant for the 777.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Sun Apr 13, 2003 5:08 am

Thanks for your feeble attempt to "dumb it down" for me. Unfortunately, the drivel you managed to scratch out for me did not make much sense

Feeble attempt, or lack of fundamental comprehension? I'm inclined to say the latter...  Laugh out loud


According to your brilliant explanation, the GE90-94B is a better powerplant from a technical perspective because GE has managed to sell more of them than Rolls has sold Trent 895s

So pray tell... why then would you say that the heavier, more expensive engine has outsold the lighter, cheaper engine (which also features a faster throttle response) to all but two carriers... one being the "hometown" player?  Insane


How then do you explain the fact that more 777s currently in service are powered by Rolls-Royce powerplants than either GE or PW

Simple... by telling you to check your facts. The GE90 overtook the Trent800 for number of orders last year!  Laugh out loud



As to your alarmist mention of the Metco58 "fiasco," perhaps you should think about whether or not it is a "fiasco." No crashes, deaths, or injuries are directly attributable to the Emirates incident or any other incident.

Oh, you're right... just huge amounts in maintenance costs and delay in achievement of optimum ETOPS certification. No biggie Big grin
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DeltaSFO
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Sun Apr 13, 2003 8:15 am

Feeble attempt, or lack of fundamental comprehension? I'm inclined to say the latter...

Indeed you are. You can say whatever you like. I don't expect to cure you of your GE fetish, and I certainly won't try. It would be nice to introduce you to TEDSKI and see what happens. I will, however, try to help you out of your little fantasy world in which you seem to think GE can do no wrong and RR and PW engines are mere hairdryers compared to the Most Wonderful and Perfect GE90.

So pray tell... why then would you say that the heavier, more expensive engine has outsold the lighter, cheaper engine (which also features a faster throttle response) to all but two carriers... one being the "hometown" player?

Derivative sales such as the -94B and 895 are generally made to customers that have already staked out their position, BA and JL being the only two exceptions I can think of. It stands to reason that if DL, for example, decided to order 777s with higher rated engines than the Trent 892s, it is not likely that they would order the GE90-94B unless the Rolls-Royce was so unsatisfactory that Delta felt the additional cost of operating a mixed fleet was justified. We've seen examples of this happening with Delta virtually abandoning Pratt & Whitney as an engine supplier after less than satisfactory experiences with the PW2000 on the 757 and PW4000 on the MD-11/767, and JL making the decision to switch to the GE90 for their 777ERs from PW on their 777As.

Dismissing the BA decision as simply the "hometown player" effect is the height of ignorance. I think the BA decision was a combination of disgust with development and initial service problems with the GE90, GE's unwillingness at the time to develop a 94,000 pound engine, local politics (the initial decision to order GE90s added insult to the injury of choosing the B777 over the A340), and the fact that they had some RR orders on the books anyway for RB.211s for 744s that they had to do something with when they converted those 744 orders to additional 777 orders.

As to the GE90 overtaking the Trent last year, I am aware of that and I think you might be even more naïve than I originally suspected if you see that as some great technical accomplishment for GE or some huge surprise that nobody in the industry expected. With GE having paid Boeing for the exclusivity deal on the 772LR/773ER, don't you think it's reasonable for any ordinary person, even you, to assume that at some point, based on the demand Boeing says they predict for this airplane, the GE90 would outsell both the PW and the RR by some considerable margin?

There's no question that there is a perceived (that's right, perceived) advantage to having GE90s on your first generation 777s if you're going to order second generation airplanes. This will no doubt influence--or perhaps I should say it has already influenced--Air India's decision on this matter. However, I understand that several Trent operators have privately conceded that their feeling about the GE90 being all you can get on the second generation 777 is that it's not the end of the world, and they can justify operating a mixed fleet, given the right circumstances and numbers.

Oh, you're right... just huge amounts in maintenance costs and delay in achievement of optimum ETOPS certification. No biggie

Once again, let me point you back to the GE90, which is in a class by itself when it comes to development and service problems. The Trent had a service problem and you're dismissing the whole program as "lackluster" and coming up with all manner of other ridiculous, mostly unfounded criticisms. Just remember to look at things in their proper perspective. GE seriously considered pulling the plug on the GE90 program several times throughout its life. Thanks to some good foresight and vision on the part of GEAE's leadership, as well as good engineering, they were able to right the ship, as it were, and turn the GE90 into the groundbreaking engine it was intended to be, even if it is somewhat of an overkill in its lesser incarnations.

My advice to you is to just not say anything. It's already clear that you haven't the faintest idea what the hell you're talking about. Let's just leave it at that.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Sun Apr 13, 2003 8:31 am

au contraire dear DeltaSFO,
if you'll notice, I've actually been able to corroborate any claim I've made thus far... as opposed to your wildly speculative presumptions such as:

...you seem to think GE can do no wrong and RR and PW engines are mere hairdryers compared to the Most Wonderful and Perfect GE90

...Dismissing the BA decision as simply the "hometown player" effect

....you're dismissing the whole program as "lackluster"


especially considering that none are remotely close to accurate.  Insane


Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Jet-lagged
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Sun Apr 13, 2003 10:20 am


why is this not a surprise . . . .  Wink/being sarcastic

Air-India defers decision to buy new planes

"The board has not taken any decision today," Jitender Bhargava told Reuters on Saturday. "It will again meet in the next seven to 10 days to take a decision."

from:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2553640
 
dynkrisolo
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Sun Apr 13, 2003 1:35 pm

DeltaSFO:

I'd agree with you that ConcordeBoy does appear to have a GE fetish. But I think it's a bit cruel to compare him with TEDSKI. ConcordeBoy at least has shown some understanding of the subjects. TEDSKI just uttered Rolls-Royce everytime he had a chance.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Air India Board To Announce Order On April 9

Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:06 am

Well, the stated 10-day delay period has passed.... and still no announcement. Be nice if they could get with it  Sad
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!

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