MSYtristar
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Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 1:25 am

This came from the justplanes news section.....thought it'd be of interest to some....


Pan Am announced it plans to services 21 destinations from Aguadilla in the next 5 years starting with flights to Orlando on 23May03. In the next 5 years Panam plans service to the following destinations : Stanford CT, Hartfotd CT, Des Moines IA, St Petersburg FL, Philadelphia PA and Baltimore MD ; in Canada Halifax, Hamilton and Toronto plus La Romana, Puerto Plata, Punta Cana, Santo Domingo, Port-au-Prince, San Jose, Cancun, Caracas, Santiago, St. Croix, St. Maarten and St. Thomas. Panam will use its fleet of Boeing 727-200s for these routes.


That is really significent expansion....but Des Moines?????


Steve in NO

 
DeltaMD11
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 1:28 am

Amen. I hope we seem them here in PHL soon. I really want to get the chance to fly with them (God I love those 727's!!). Take a nice day trip. Keep on truckin' Pan Am!

Bryan
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
JohnJ
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 1:34 am

Just one problem: Stamford, CT does not have a commercial airport.
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 1:35 am

Exactly. It's STAMFORD for one, and there's no airport.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 1:39 am

Maybe they'll build one like in the olden days when they just went to little remote places and built airstrips lol.....wouldn't that be a sight to see....Pan American Field in Stamford,CT.  Smile
 
JBLUA320
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 1:44 am

Maybe they will use the jetstreams into Stamford Municipal (assuming there is something at all...)

JBLU
 
m717
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 1:59 am

Did anyone think to wonder WHY they are basing their operation and expanding out of Aguadilla? Would it have anything to do with their operating certificate (or perhaps a new certificate for this "company".) And who will crew these aircraft for this expansion. U S pilots? Former, recent/current Pan Am pilots (the ones from the Portsmouth, NH carrier...not the old Pam Am) covered under the company's current contract, or foreign pilots not covered? What is the reputation of this company and it's management? This company has absolutely no relationship or resemblance to the old Pan Am, except for the name.

Oh, but the old Pan Am paint job on those old UAL 727s look cool. I guess that's reason enough to want to fly them, or wish them well to get a picture of them, right?  Insane
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 2:06 am

Yeah, even though this new entity is nothing like the former airline in terms of history and scope, it is good seeing them targeting the Caribbean markets where the Pan Am name has a lot of recognition. I'm not sure about the piloting situation, but I for one am excited about this. There has never been a more elegant paint scheme on a 727 in my opinion.


Steve in NOLA
 
m717
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 2:11 am

Yep, just like I thought. Again, maybe you should research WHY they plan this Caribbean operation.

Nevermind, the paint scheme is elegant.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 2:22 am

Would it have anything to do with their operating certificate (or perhaps a new certificate for this "company".) And who will crew these aircraft for this expansion. U S pilots? Former, recent/current Pan Am pilots (the ones from the Portsmouth, NH carrier...not the old Pam Am) covered under the company's current contract, or foreign pilots not covered? What is the reputation of this company and it's management?

Puerto Rico is domestic territory.
a.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 2:26 am

I recall in some other posts about PA3 that basing an operation out of the Caribb. would allow them to pay the pilots less money, correct? Something to that affect anyway....

Puerto Rico is domestic though....if I recall, they wanted to have a hub in the Dominican Republic...looks like they changed their minds.


Steve
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 2:32 am

M717,

I've followed this airline (all versions) for a long, long time. Even though this new company does not have anything in common with the original, the NAME means a lot to me. Just seeing the name PAN AM in the air in all its glory makes me feel at ease. I'm not trying to say "who cares about the work rules for the pilots...I like the planes" or something like that. Whatever they choose to do in regards to that is their buisness, good or bad...we don't have much say so about it. I'm not, however, going to let that stop me from following this new version of the legend with a keen interest.


Steve
 
N202PA
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 2:36 am

Not to divert attention from this major announcement, but wasn't PA supposed to have been doing this exact same expansion out of the Dominican Republic? Last I heard, they were starting up a third arm of the company (the first two being Pan Am Airways and Boston-Maine Airways) that was to be solely based out of the Caribbean, using some of the aircraft purchased from United. Have they switched this to Aguadilla, or is this new proposed service in addition to the DR expansion?

Honestly, Pan Am's management at this point looks pretty incompetent. They seem to have no long-range plan, pulling into and out of markets left and right, and maintaining near-zero advertising in the markets they serve. Some might call this flexible management, but I would call it just plain lunacy. I get the feeling that either: a) Guilford knows something that we all don't know, and they're simply biding their time until they can capitalize on it, or b) The airline is being run to lose money, as some sort of tax write-off or to support the rail division, in which case, losses would be acceptable (or both).
 
BDLGUY
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 3:34 am

CT does not have a commercial airport.>

It could be BDR), USA - Connecticut">BDR/KBDR - Bridgeport, CT

Cheers!
John/BDL / KBDL), USA - Connecticut">BDL


[Edited 2003-04-04 19:52:41]
John A. Perrotta (KBDL/BDL) - Canon 300D/400D & EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM
 
clipperhawaii
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 3:36 am

You may be right N202PA. As I recall, Pan Am II had a huge well focused business plan but Pan Am III has outlasted them.

Regards,
ClipperHawaii
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
MxCtrlr
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 5:03 am

It's kind of hard to compare the time PA2 and PA3 have lasted as, at PA2, we had, as stated above, a large-scale business plan (albeit not a great one) and advertised heavily. PA3, again as stated above, has a nasty habit of entering and exiting markets as fast as planes can land (Mid-America Airport, Gary, IN, etc).

I don't claim to know what Guildofrd thinks but they are trying to run an airline like a railroad and that doesn't work. You don't just shut down for a month "because things are slow" and build any semblance of credibility with the public.

PA3 has great potential, but as we all know, all "potential" means is "you ain't done it yet!" Having worked for all three incarnations of PA, seeing the "blue ball" flying is a mixed bag of emotions - happy on the one hand to see it flying again, but sad to see what a travesty this version is to the original name/brand.

I honestly think that this announcement will fall by the wayside in a few months or so and PA3 will remain an obscure airline entity that really doesn't live up to its potential. At the very least, if they do get this idea going, they will pull out of half, or more, of the markets within three months (based on historical trends with PA3 and obscure markets).

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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shrtaprch
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 8:20 am

BMA-"Subsidized airline sued for late rent at Maryland airport"
USAToday Travel News

Posted 12:15 p.m. ET - Wednesday Good news, bad news for Pan Am Pan American Airways added five daily flights from Baltimore-Washington (BWI) to Martha's Vineyard (MVY), giving it a total of six flights a day to the exclusive Massachusetts island. But the news wasn't as good for two airports in western Maryland. Pan Am affiliate Boston-Maine Airways says it will likely have to end its service from BWI to Hagerstown (HGR) and Cumberland (CBE) after a state subsidy runs out, according to The Associated Press. The airline is 11 months and more than $35,000 behind on its rent at Hagerstown, and says passenger loads at Cumberland are too low to be profitable.


The Associated Press Copyright 2003 . All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

03/28/2003 - Updated 09:06 AM ET

Subsidized airline sued for late rent at Maryland airport

HAGERSTOWN, Md. (AP) — The state-subsidized airline linking western Maryland to Baltimore is 11 months and more than $35,000 behind on its rent at Hagerstown Regional Airport, a lawsuit filed by Washington County claims.

Boston-Maine Airways also is in arrears at the Greater Cumberland Regional Airport, interim airport manager C. William Armstrong said Thursday, although he declined to specify the amount.

Daniel Fortnam, Boston-Maine's vice president for sales and marketing, did not immediately return telephone calls from The Associated Press to the company's headquarters in Portsmouth, N.H.

The news follows a recent report that Boston-Maine is likely to end the western Maryland service after June 30, when its $4.25 million taxpayer subsidy is set to expire.

The company operates three Pan Am Clipper Connection flights daily between Cumberland, Hagerstown and Baltimore-Washington International Airport. The commuter service began in late December 2001 under a state contract aimed at fostering economic development.

Launched at a time of traveler skittishness over the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the 19-passenger flights have not drawn enough customers to reach the 45 percent load factor needed to break even, according to a December 2002 Maryland Aviation Administration report.

The lawsuit, filed Wednesday in Washington County Circuit Court, seeks $42,406 in back rent, late fees and legal fees from May 2002 through this month.

"The plaintiff has demanded payment from the defendant, but the defendant has refused, and does continue to fail and refuse to pay the same as agreed in the lease," the complaint states.

Armstrong said Boston-Maine also is in arrears at the Cumberland airport, located in nearby Wiley Ford, W.Va., but no lawsuit has been filed.

"Suffice it to say we're making every effort we can to work with BMA through the fulfillment of their contract," Armstrong said.

On Sunday, the Cumberland Times-News quoted James Stahl, chairman of the authority that operates the Cumberland airport, as saying Boston-Maine has indicated it won't be able to continue the service after the subsidy ends unless it gets many more passengers or local financial help.

In January, Fortnam and Hagerstown airport manager Carolyn Motz, expressed confidence that Boston-Maine would be financially self- sufficient by June 30. Motz said on Thursday she was confident the back rent would be paid.

"I have no doubts now and I had no doubts then," she said.

The carrier recently added routes between Baltimore and coastal New England points, which Motz said should increase its appeal to western Marylanders.

"If the communities that surround Hagerstown and Cumberland want this service to stay here, they need to use it, and then the other things will take care of themselves," she said.

 
JohnJ
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 8:31 am

"It could be BDR - Bridgeport, CT"

BDR's longest runway is 4800' - would that be long enough to launch a loaded 727 with enough fuel for a flight to Aguadilla?

 
dripstick
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 8:35 am

Read my caption on this...


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Photo © Andy Vanderheyden



Cheers, Dripstick

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Msh744
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 8:39 am

I don't think BDR's runway is quite long enough for a 727. I read a while ago that Delta Express was thinking about (i don't think it'll actually happen) flying a CRJ into BDR, and it would just make the requirements. And Stamford doesn't have an airport, as said before. It would be nice if it did, though...


-Msh744
 
shrtaprch
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 12:37 pm

Funny,

We already serviced St. Pete..and dropped it.

We were in Allentown PA outside of PHL..and dropped it.

Funny, BWI too....

Anything in CT will probably be served by B-M Air. If they are still around.

What happened to returning civility to flying and using metro convinient airports.

I am not sure who is feeding this stuff to you, but, as you can see from my earlier post, there is a lot rotten at Pan Am III.

 
elwood64151
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 12:58 pm

MKC (Midtown Kansas City-Kansas City's old airport) runways are 5000 and 6200 feet each. 727s land at MKC frequently (3 or 4 times a month). They use the 5000 ft runway. While I don't know if they are flying as far as Bridgeport-Puerto Rico, they are doing it.

Further, Stamford does have an airport. It just doesn't have a passenger terminal. It's a general aviation field. But Danbury (just sixty miles up the road) was the same thing until USAir Express started flying there.

I doubt either Stamford or Bridgeport would be serviced N/S from Puerto Rico. I think a lot of these routes are connecting (DSM? c'mon!) and that the routes are probably via Portsmouth, NH.

Why fly from Puerto Rico to NH to IA I have no idea, but then people flew LAX-MCI-COS on NJ.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
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foxecho
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 2:09 pm

Danbury had USAir Express service? I know Poughkipse had it, B-1900D's to White Plains and Burlington, I actually flew POU-HPN one day, the lone agent thought I was crazy.....

what type was flown to Danbury?

Best Regds
Andrew
..uh, we'll need that to live......
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Huge Pan Am Expansion!

Sat Apr 05, 2003 3:25 pm

When it says Orlando on there I assume they mean Sanford SFB right not MCO?