lamyl_hhlco
Posts: 596
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 8:28 am

Flying By A Volcano Smoke

Sun Apr 06, 2003 4:28 pm

That is a great picture !
But aren't they suppose to avoid this area ? the airplane seems pretty close to the smoke~


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Photo © Patrick Lutz



Lamyl
 
LPL
Posts: 1038
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 2:13 am

RE: Flying By A Volcano Smoke

Sun Apr 06, 2003 4:33 pm

I thought that after the BA flight 9 incident, aircraft weren't allowed to go anywhere near an ash cloud.
 
lamyl_hhlco
Posts: 596
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 8:28 am

RE: Flying By A Volcano Smoke

Sun Apr 06, 2003 4:41 pm

What happened to the BA flight 9?
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Flying By A Volcano Smoke

Sun Apr 06, 2003 4:41 pm

Like all pictures taken with telephoto lenses and lacking a common unrelated point of reference, it is very hard to judge distance. It could be quite a few miles from this cloud.
 
jhooper
Posts: 5560
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Flying By A Volcano Smoke

Sun Apr 06, 2003 4:46 pm

You DEFINITELY don't want to be in a volcanic ash cloud in an airplane. It's probably an illusion, because the plane probably had more than adaquate clearance from the cloud.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
lamyl_hhlco
Posts: 596
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 8:28 am

RE: Flying By A Volcano Smoke

Sun Apr 06, 2003 4:53 pm

i hope it is! I wonder from where the picture was taken?
 
AJ
Posts: 2295
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:54 pm

RE: Flying By A Volcano Smoke

Sun Apr 06, 2003 5:45 pm

 
lamyl_hhlco
Posts: 596
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 8:28 am

RE: Flying By A Volcano Smoke

Sun Apr 06, 2003 5:50 pm

Lucky was a 747 and at FL370, otherwise .....
 
bapilot2b
Posts: 891
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2001 7:42 am

RE: Flying By A Volcano Smoke

Sun Apr 06, 2003 6:07 pm

VOLCANIC DUST

Avoid flight into areas of known volcanic dust. If volcanic dust is encountered exit as quickly as possible. If engines surge, loose thrust and/or EGT is high;

Thrust Levers ..... Close
disengage autothrottle if on.

Wing Anti-Ice Switch ..... On

Engine Anti-Ice Switches ..... On

If EGT Continues to increase:

Accomplish affected engine shutdown and then attempt to restart. A sucessful start(s) may not be possible until out of the volcanic dust. Engine(s) may be slow to accelerate to idle at high altitudes:

Engine Start Selectors ..... FLT

Fuel Control Switch (ES) ..... CUTOFF then run
repeat until engine start(s) acheived; remain approximately 30 seconds in each position during start attempts.

APU (if avaliable) ..... Start
consider delaying APU start until out of volcanic dust

-------------------------------------------------------------

Taken from my Boeing 767-204 Operations manual, seems like serious stuff!

Yours Sincerely,
Jason Nicholls
Jason Nicholls - v1images
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3454
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: Flying By A Volcano Smoke

Mon Apr 07, 2003 2:17 pm

Ash is very abrasive...

It scratches the windows up pretty badly and plays havoc with the very small compressor blades in the engines. Sort of like sandblasting a JT9D whilst running...not the best idea in the whole world.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
AJ
Posts: 2295
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:54 pm

RE: Flying By A Volcano Smoke

Mon Apr 07, 2003 3:46 pm

It also becomes a gel at high temperatures which is why lowering engine operating temperatures, ie reducing power, is imperative to prevent flame out.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Flying By A Volcano Smoke

Mon Apr 07, 2003 3:51 pm

You can get up pretty close to a volcano as long as you are upwind of it.

Downwind you can get into trouble pretty fast.

We conducted Flight operations 37 miles away from Pavloff Volcano with Electras and 727's throughout the eruption of 1995 and 96. Pretty much constant ash. Never had to cancel a flight since the prevailing wind was mostly west to east.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3454
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: Flying By A Volcano Smoke

Mon Apr 07, 2003 4:03 pm

Ah, yes, there's a reason...I suppose...that we have to learn those godforsaken Volcanic Ash Dispersion charts in pilot training  Big grin
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
dustweek
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 1999 10:55 am

RE: Flying By A Volcano Smoke

Mon Apr 07, 2003 9:23 pm

Hi guys.

I did it in 1989....

In December, 1989, Redoubt Volcano in Alaska erupted. That was when a KLM 747-400 lost all 4 engines at 7500 meters as they entered a cloud that had ash in it, and got them started again at only 1500m above the mountains.

Anyway, I was stuck in Fairbanks, Alaska trying to get to Florida.
Understandably, none of the airlines were going to risk flying -- EXCEPT Alaska Airlines. They correctly reasoned that if there was daylight and the skies were clear (except for the volcanic ash plume), they could simply fly to the upwind side of the volcano.

So that's what we did....a direct flight from Fairbanks to Seattle, taking a long detour to the west of Redoubt. What a sight! A huge, beautiful gray plume in the sky. Pretty much everyone in the full plane took turns looking out the left side (I think it was an MD80, but not sure).

I still have great respect for Alaska Airline's ability to fly safely in Alaska in conditions that make others give up.

 
Spacepope
Posts: 3181
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Flying By A Volcano Smoke

Tue Apr 08, 2003 12:31 am

The ash doesn't actually become a gel at high temperatures. Keep in mind that these explosive eruptions form ash clouds composed of fragments of one kind of rock, Rhyolite. This rock has a very high Quartz content. Quartz melts at a very low temperature, one that is readily attained in jet engines. What you end up with is a slurry of melted quartz, along with feldspar and mica chunks coming through the engine, abrading the delicate parts in a way much unlike water, being that it is 3 times the density. The other bad part of low temperature silicates is that once they cool enough, they will resolidify and can gum up the moving parts in an instant.

But upwind of these volcanoes, there is no problem whatsoever.

T.J.
The last of the famous international playboys