bmi330
Posts: 1429
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Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Fri Apr 11, 2003 4:25 am

Guys concord will not stay grounded someone will save this wonderful machine she means to much to far far to much to people who love planes and people who don't even no what they are flying on. She is something special and special things never die before there time. She brings out gasps and amazement in everyone she is not a machine she is a loved by all who see her and an icon of the world the ground shall not have her! Beauty inspire and someone will be inspired to save her.
 
avroarrow
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Fri Apr 11, 2003 4:48 am

My heart wishes you were right, but my brain thinks you are probably wrong. BA will probably not sell any, but rather donate them all to museums (with the caveat that they not be flown) and scrap the leftovers so they can go down in history as one of the 2 who were ever able to operate supersonically. I hate to say it but IMHO BA's pride would rather see Concorde die than have another operator. As for AF, I really don't know what their position is on the issue.
Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
 
planespotterx
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Fri Apr 11, 2003 4:56 am

BA have to sell them, they dont OWN concorde once its retired, so whoever wants to buy one can do so at their own cost, concorde wasnt built for BA or AF, they just bought it, also an agreement was signed by the conservatives in the 70's stating that "if anyone wishes to buy the aircraft after its retired they may do so at the same price BA bought it for"
Its not the fall that kills u, its the sudden stop at the end..
 
bmi330
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Fri Apr 11, 2003 5:04 am

God save Richard Branson ! Hope he dose fly them a will love it. Two fingred salute to BA if they can.
 
BeltwayBandit
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Fri Apr 11, 2003 5:21 am

Economics always prevail.

There's a spot waiting for one BA Concorde right near my office. The new Smithsonian Air & Space Museum at Dulles Airport. It's be in good company. Space Shuttle, SR71, Enola Gay...
 
SwissA330
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Fri Apr 11, 2003 5:41 am

planespotterx

What do you mean they don't own the aircraft???

If they bought them, of course they own them. They will not be forced to sell them or anything alike. And in my JP there is no note saying that they are from a leasing company, so they probably DO belong to BA.

and in that case they can do whatever they want to do with it (well of course not everything, e.g. drown it the thames or sell them as food or other ridiculous stuff - but you know what i mean...  Smile/happy/getting dizzy )

they will most probably never fly again once they stop! I was already surprised that they took off again after the AF incident. unfortunatley they are just not economical anymore...

Greetz, Pat

swissair/+/ we care
 
ANA777Master
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Fri Apr 11, 2003 5:43 am

This is hot on Branson's mind right now....
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Fri Apr 11, 2003 5:48 am

I would be awesome if Branson took it. I love him right now, and it would be real cool if he did get it. Maybe John Travolta could buy it?
Go big or go home
 
flyinghighboy
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Fri Apr 11, 2003 5:51 am

hey if anyone can buy the concorde at the price BA got it for? so why not some one get it for 1 pound and park it in the back yard :P
 
Leezyjet
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Fri Apr 11, 2003 6:06 am

I think that the press have to take some of the blame for this. They have done nothing but critisize Concorde sine the Paris crash. Every single little problem Concorde suffers makes the news, but many many other "normal" airliners suffer many more problems each day but do not even get a mention in the news.

The press have to pay for this. Refuse to buy their tabloid garbage !!!. Half the stuff they print is just plain old Bollocks, most of the "facts" are based on hearsay and half truths anyway. It's not fit to wipe my ar$e on.

 Pissed

"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
bmi330
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Fri Apr 11, 2003 6:14 am

Yes the press are a bunch of sorry little SOB's but my new bestest friend in the hold wide world Richey boy is gonna fly them three cheers for Mr Branson.
 
hmmmm...
Posts: 1959
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Fri Apr 11, 2003 8:18 am

You guys talk about Concorde as if it will be destroyed at the scrap heap. Because the Concorde is special, they will not all be destroyed. At least one, if not all of them, will have a good resting place.

What more do you want?
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Fri Apr 11, 2003 8:21 am

If Richard Branson bought them he would be a saviour for me and millions of other SST fans across the world. It's unlikely but we can dream can't we?

In Arsene we trust!!
 
bmi330
Posts: 1429
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Fri Apr 11, 2003 8:31 am

I will second that Arsenal SIR Richard will be a savior.

hmmmm... Why do we want the greatest engineering feet ever by man sitting in a "good resting place" when they are in some forecasts good to go for another 20 years and a hole 2 gererations of people missing out on such a fabulous experience. I for one feel robed of flying concord if Mr B dose not save this wonderfully plane as I have always aspired to fly on it and my dream was always to be a concord pilot when I was a wee Boy. Now I am absolutely desperately trying to find the cash to fly once on her before its to late.

I'm keeping my faith that MR Branson will come throw for me but.
 
hmmmm...
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Fri Apr 11, 2003 11:29 am

You guys are having pipe dreams. That type of pipes that produce smoke. Be happy with a Concorde museum and leave it at that. The Concorde is not an experience that will ever be accessible to any but the wealthy. And even the wealthy are balking at paying for it now. That's why they are stopping it. Why should such a thing be maintained by an airline? Just to appease a bunch of airplane nerds who complain they haven't had a chance to fly it?
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
kramri
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Fri Apr 11, 2003 2:08 pm

Avroarrow: "BA will probably not sell any, but rather donate them all to museums (with the caveat that they not be flown) and scrap the leftovers so they can go down in history as one of the 2 who were ever able to operate supersonically."

And then there were 3... or at least 2 1/2!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

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vr-hkg
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Fri Apr 11, 2003 3:12 pm

Concorde will not fly again for exactly the same reasons that the great passenger liner Canberra was scrapped by P&O. British Airways will not allow another airline the prestige of flying the Concorde, and particularly not Virgin / Branson. You can guarantee that either ownership of the Concorde aircraft will remain with BA when they are given to museums, or the aircraft will be altered to make it economically unfeasable to return them to an airworthy state, or the contract when selling the aircraft to a museum will state that the museum is not allowed to sell the aircraft to any airline or leasing company, and must put a similar clause in the contract if they sell it to another company. AF will no doubt do exactly the same.

Either way, once BA and AF decided to stop flying Concorde, the life of that great bird was ended. Look at the reasons P&O scrapped the Canberra, a ship that many other cruise lines would have loved to sail - not because she was economically unfeasible to refit and sail, but simply because P&O could not allow the competition to take a ship that many loved. They'd have lost passengers to the competition in so doing, so they scrapped her instead.

At least be thankful that the Concorde will be placed in a museum, rather than being scrapped to prevent somebody else flying her.
 
DIA
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Fri Apr 11, 2003 11:58 pm

Kramri, if you are looking at "joint" operators of Concorde, you must not forget Braniff.

Cheers,
DIA
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
IwantaBBJ
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 3:24 am

So, how about a endlessly-rich saudi or so, buying one to impress his friends that own BBJ's, Gulfs and so on?

I mean, there are quite a lot of them who don't have to worry about money...

Mike
 
777236ER
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 3:36 am

Everyone seems to forget the huge engineering team that supports Concorde and the lack of spare parts. Branson isn't stupid. BA stopped Concorde because it wasn't making money.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
aamd11
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:28 am

exactly as 777236ER said.

It was said in the papers (tabloid most liekly) "Virgin, with its lower cost base, could operate the aircraft at a profit"
complete bollocks.
They may have a lower operating cost for say a 744.
this is concorde.
they have never flown it, havent come close.
they'd need to incorporate all the tech crews, pilots, cabin staff to fly it.
alternately, take your own staff, and train them.
how long does it take to transistion from a 744 to a Concorde.... how much would it cost?!

We're talking huge costs to incorporate the aircaft, let alone operate it daily.
Spares are fast running out, and increasingly hard to get hold of, that's going to make it very costly in the coming years to keep them going.

As mentioned before... be glad they will be rested, and not scrapped.

>> hoorah for another Branson PR stunt... NOT!

A^A MD-11
 
MONARCH
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:43 am

Is there a need for BA to ground all Concordes, How about them just keeping one in service? Oh, and instead of the great people who work on these aircraft losing their jobs, it should be Rod Eddington - he should resign out of disgrace?? what will be BA's flagship now???

Virgin truely is Britain's flag carrier!


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Bruce
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:49 am

Oh I can just see the headlines now: Hooters Air buys Concorde fleet

And the ad campaign would go:

Live in New York? How about a quick round of golf in Myrtle Beach and we'll get you back in time for the Yankee's game.....

LOL

bruce
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
777236ER
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:53 am

Virgin truely is Britain's flag carrier!

Why, because Richard says so? Operating to the most lucrative destinations, with no domestic routes and no European routes hardly makes them the flag carrier.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
MONARCH
Posts: 357
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 5:01 am

Well, you can't call BA Britain's flag carrier can you???
 
BeltwayBandit
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 5:07 am

Hooters Air would bring people to Mets games, not Yankees. (And Jets, not Giants.)
 
777236ER
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 5:14 am

Well, you can't call BA Britain's flag carrier can you???

Yeah, you saw through the evil plan. I have to say the "British" and "Airways" had me fooled for a while.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
MONARCH
Posts: 357
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 5:16 am

Well BA is not very British in my eyes. Virgin is Britain's flag carrier - no doubt about it!
 
777236ER
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 5:18 am

Yeah...any reason?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
bhxforever
Posts: 549
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 5:31 am

How is British Airways not Britain's flag carrier??? What are u smoking?
 
bmi330
Posts: 1429
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 6:35 am

Who's gave yours permission to turn my post on the board into a VS vs BA topic?

Hmmmm.... People aviation fan's or not aspire to a trip on concord as well as a great toll to business passengers wanting to fly the Atlantic. So put that in your pipe and smoke it. Not a post slevering that she should be put in a museum routing away while she can still be glorious and soaring in the sky.

BA are criminal to do this to her while she is still good to go for another 20 years. VS Save her we all owe Mr Branson a great debt to keep the dream alive for thousands if not millions who dream to fly faster than the speed of sound and keep the greatest aircraft ever as a working display of man's great technical achievement.

Keeping the faith in concord and her special and great place and that VS and MR B will come through for use.
 
hmmmm...
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 7:50 am

Hmmmm.... People aviation fan's or not aspire to a trip on concord as well as a great toll to business passengers wanting to fly the Atlantic.

You just dont get it. It does not matter how many people want to fly Concorde. It only matters how many of them will pay to do so. And there aren't enough of them to make the thing pay, for BA or anyone else. What part of that do you not understand? If you like Concorde so much, then I expect you to be major investor in it. Please tell the board how much money you will spend between now and Oct to keep Concorde profitable? If the answer is $0, then you will have answered your own question as to why the Concorde can not stay flying.
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
SwissA330
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 3:42 pm

HELLO??

This Bird -although still very attractive- was designed over 25 years ago!!! It went into service as a 14-aircraft strong fleet. Have you any idea, what it cost an airline to fly such a plane.
OK, she is the soncorde, but that's why she made it to 2003. If she wasn't supersonic, an aircraft built this seldomly would just not fly more than a couple of years. Spare-parts get too expensive, it 'drinks' much too much fuel, it's unconfortable in the inside and still seats way too many people.


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Don't get me wrong, I like the plane, I'm just trying to make you realise, that BA and AF aren't evil for retiring her. It's a very old Plane!!!!!

You don't see major carriers flying around A300B's or 737-200 anymore as welll. (ok, some do, but still that's different because there are plenty of them, and operating costs therefore are nowhere as high as concorde's.)

Additionally, there is the 'AF and BA-Reputation-thing'. They don't want anybody els to fly the plane...

plain simple as that.

Greets, Pat
swissair/+/ we care
 
GDB
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 8:34 pm

The issues are not really airframe life, they are pretty young, but the £40 million for a range of system and minor airframe work coming up was the deciding factor, all aircraft face sort of thing as they age, but the tiny and specialized Concorde fleet would be much more expensive.
Then post 2007-9 you'd have the at least £100 million (the 1999 estimates involving several more aircraft than are flying now) Re-Life 2 to tackle, with a skills base that will have largely disappeared then, (BA had block retirements of Concorde engineers coming along in the next few years, those who have been with the aircraft from the start, and played a role out of all proportion to their numbers in keeping it going so well, for so long).
 
cedarjet
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RE: Someone Will Save Her She Means Two Much!

Sat Apr 12, 2003 10:29 pm

It is true that BA and Air France don't really own their Concorde fleets - they didn't buy the planes in the first place (well, £1 or FFR1 per aircraft), and after that the ops were subsidised, at least til BA was privatised. So if they ground them, the gov't could theoretically assign the planes to another airline, the grey area of course is the mx and ground crews, all of which IS BA property. So while I can't see any other airline getting their hands on the fleet, it is technically possible.

Other than the mx and ground crew, the other problem is that these planes are seriously old (even if they don't have many hours on the clock). I don't know what BA's oldest non-SST aircraft is, but I would guess that it is some of the early 757s, which are 1984 vintage - a decade younger than the Concordes.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz