HUYfan
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Flybe Poised For DH4 Order

Mon Apr 14, 2003 7:48 pm

Flybe British European is in the final stages of closing a deal with Bombardier Aerospace to trade in its entire DH1/DH3/CR1 fleets for newer, larger DH4 variants. The number of aircraft in the deal (which includes the replacement of 2 146-100s) is to be 17 new DH8-400s.

This will help simplify the Flybe. fleet to two types, the Q400 and the BAe146.

regards

Mike
 
777236ER
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RE: Flybe Poised For DH4 Order

Mon Apr 14, 2003 7:53 pm

Knowing Jersey...errrr.....British....errrrr.....FlyBe, 2 weeks down the line they'll decide that the CRJ is actually their aircraft of choice, and get rid of all the Dash 8s and 146s.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
HUYfan
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RE: Flybe Poised For DH4 Order

Mon Apr 14, 2003 8:15 pm

i appreciate the humour, but this one is set in stone.

I have to say that whilst the company has made mistakes in the past, they are'nt proud in admitting they're wrong and seem to be heading in the right direction.

regards

Mike
 
777236ER
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RE: Flybe Poised For DH4 Order

Mon Apr 14, 2003 8:28 pm

It's not just a case of admitting they're wrong, FlyBE has to be the most disorganised airline in the UK right now.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
kaitak
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RE: Flybe Poised For DH4 Order

Mon Apr 14, 2003 9:02 pm

Also disorganised as far as its identity is concerned; what is it trying to be? Low cost or a hybrid. The latter has been a minefield for other airlines. As good an aircraft (when it works) as the 8-400 is, I hardly think it's ideal for low cost operations.

Surely they could acquire something more appropriate for a real operation: A319s or 73Gs, for example. Although considerably larger than the 146s, at the rate aircraft prices are going, there must be good deals available, especially if a larger operator were to go under, releasing many A319s onto the market . . .
 
Thomas_Jaeger
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RE: Flybe Poised For DH4 Order

Mon Apr 14, 2003 9:28 pm

I think that the regional low-cost concept of Flybe. can work out fine. You have to take into account that offering flexible types of fares especially targeting business travellers Flybe. is able to get a higher yield than other low-cost airlines. Together with the lower operating costs of an aircraft like the Dash 8-400 I am convinced that they can be successful, they of course also need high load-factors above 70% I'd say to be profitable. However, I think it's the only way to survive for regional carriers to offer flights in niche market with a combined low-cost/business model offering cheap fares to leisure travellers and more expensive fares still cheaper than C Class or Y Class full fares at traditional airlines for business travellers who need flexibility.
Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
 
HUYfan
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RE: Flybe Poised For DH4 Order

Mon Apr 14, 2003 11:25 pm

THANKYOU!

The Q400 has lower operating costs than the Airbus and Boeing series and the reliability of the Q400 is in the high nineties at the moment!

The company may have been a bit disorganised in recent years but to be quite honest i think the flexibility shown since 9/11 has been exemplary.

And to say the company will fail is ridiculous, we are on course for profit this year DUE to the changes we have made and our Southampton-Geneva as just one example is running at a 82% load factor in the first month of operations alone!

The 737/32s series are TOO BIG for flybe, and in any case, BE could not operate either type on their AF routes anyway! I WISH flybe would order the 717 to replace the 146s, it would be ideal for low fares operations and wouldnt present any operational problems where AF are concerned.

regards

Mike
 
AirX
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RE: Flybe Poised For DH4 Order

Tue Apr 15, 2003 2:29 am

What will happen to some of the lower capacity routes with the DH1/DH3s? Likely to be discontinued or to have lower frequencies? To be honest I am quite fond of the DH4 so it is welcome news.

Regards Adrian.
 
HUYfan
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RE: Flybe Poised For DH4 Order

Tue Apr 15, 2003 6:23 am

Flybe is currently reviewing its poorest performing routes, but it is not in any rush to cancel any existing routes as the Q400 has the same operating costs as the Q200  Smile

The ones i've heard to be under considerable review are Belfast City-Bristol and the Exeter routes.

regards

Mike
 
teahan
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RE: Flybe Poised For DH4 Order

Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:11 am

HUYfan,

Just wondering what your source is re the Q400 being cheaper to operate per seat compared to the B737NG/A32S family? It would seem quite a feat for a much a smaller aircraft.

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
L-188
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RE: Flybe Poised For DH4 Order

Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:58 am

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't a Dh1 a Chipmunk and a DH3 an Otter.

It so, going to a Dash-8-400 is a big jump.


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avroarrow
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RE: Flybe Poised For DH4 Order

Tue Apr 15, 2003 12:05 pm

Hehe, yes L-188 I think you are right, although I'd happily fly on a Chipmunk or an Otter. I think you can attribute the DH1 and DH3 in this thread to lazy typing for Dash8-100 and Dash8-300.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
 
T prop
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RE: Flybe Poised For DH4 Order

Tue Apr 15, 2003 1:21 pm

"We look for the best seat-mile cost for the two aircraft types we operate- a 75 seat turboprop and a 110- seat jet. And for the turboprop requirement. the Q400- and I don't think anyone will deny this- has BY FAR the lowest seat cost. So for our operations, the turboprop is absolutely critical."

-Jim French
Managing Director FlyBE.

Regional Airline World Jan/Feb 2003.
----------------------------------------
Sounds like he likes it.

T prop.
 
HUYfan
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RE: Flybe Poised For DH4 Order

Tue Apr 15, 2003 5:31 pm

He IS very keen on the aircraft and personally i love it too  Smile

For flybe's markets, the Q400 is cheaper. It can fill a 78 seat Q400 on SOU-BGY for example, but a 737-700 for example would go half full, so relative to flybe., the Q400 is best. And i much prefer the 2-2 layout of the Q400.

regards

Mike
 
BestWestern
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RE: Flybe Poised For DH4 Order

Tue Apr 15, 2003 5:59 pm

Me thinks that FlyBe should move to a 100% Q400 fleet, including switching the AF operations. Have the JY LHR operations suffered of late... The morning TLS rotation was dropped, and fares to LYS have fallen dramatically.

Its time for Mr french to be ruthless to save the company. If routes dont work on a Q-400 they should be dropped, as should any marginal base operation.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
HUYfan
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RE: Flybe Poised For DH4 Order

Wed Apr 16, 2003 2:31 am

Air france refuse to allow us to use prop equipment on the CDG routes. they are also too small in capacity for these routes.

BE/AF LHR routes never seem to be full apart from at weekends, but the fares charged are quite high so the yields are'nt too bad.

regards

Mike
 
avt007
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RE: Flybe Poised For DH4 Order

Wed Apr 16, 2003 2:57 am

I'd be surprised if the 400 has the same operating costs as a 200. The engines are twice the size, although it will carry twice the pax. If you have 37 pax in a 200, and 37 in a 400, which one is making money?
 
HUYfan
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RE: Flybe Poised For DH4 Order

Wed Apr 16, 2003 6:39 am

It is difficult to say whether EITHER is making money, there are too many variables such as sector length, ticket price etc.

If a Q200 left BHD for BRS with 37 pax and a Q400 did the same with 37 pax, there would be very little difference in costs. I suppose you could look at it in the same way that older 757-200s cost more to operate than 757-300s  Smile

Regards

Mike
 
avt007
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RE: Flybe Poised For DH4 Order

Wed Apr 16, 2003 6:53 am

What I am saying is, are the direct operating costs per hour the same? Or, on the same leg, given the higher speed of the 400, how do they compare? I know that at CRA, the operating costs for the 100 and 300 were very close, with the 300 slightly higher, but not much.
 
HUYfan
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RE: Flybe Poised For DH4 Order

Wed Apr 16, 2003 6:56 am

The Q4 incorprates many tchnological and cost saving advances over its older siblings.

In flybe's case fleet commonality would make the Q4 cheaper overall.

regards

mike