Setjet
Topic Author
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US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 4:56 am

Another little known fact after 9/11:

Since March 2003 US Customs has full access to ALL data transformed by the Amadeus reservation system, which is used by most major European carriers (Lufthansa, Air France,...). In the last three weeks alone Amadeus was accessed 1,500,000 times by the agency.

This means that they not only get your name, address, credit card number, passport number, frequent flyer status for your trip to the United States, but all data for ALL flights booked through Amadeus, regardless whether you are traveling from Paris to Lyon or from Munich to Cairo.

By the way, this information is not only available to the FBI but to all US law enforcement agencies.

Source: German Television (ZDF) Frontal21 news magazine.
2003-04-15

http://www.zdf.de/ZDFde/inhalt/15/0,1872,2041199,00.html
Sorry, only in German!
 
Boeingfan
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 5:01 am

Not only Amadeus but access to all Global Distribution Systems(GDS,) Worldspan, Sabre and Apollo/Galileo. As well as Arinc and SITA data.
 
ZSSNC
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 5:19 am

Setjet,

European carriers are required to give out all PNR data to US cutoms as per a obligation of an EU commission. However, this does only apply for flights to the US (i.e. if you do not have a US airport in your PNR your PNR data will not be released to US customs). Airlines are required to inform their passengers of that process. If passengers do not agree that their data is transferred to US customs they may not fly to the US. Amadeus along with some airlines (e.g. LH) are monitoring the access of US law enforcement agencies to the PNR data. In addition to that the European Parliament seeks to convince the commission to suspend the regulation and a meeting between the EU and the US in June is supposed to clarify the situation.

ZSSNC
Airbus A340-600 - the longest temptation in the sky
 
Sabena332
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 5:26 am

Setjet,

I saw the report a few minutes ago on TV (ZDF). It is unbelievable that the US customs has access to all Amadeus data (also for flight that do not originate or land in the USA) and even more unbelievable is that they have also access to your credit card number.

On an other program I saw an interview with an US customs employee, he said something like: "You must live with it when you are coming to the USA, it is the same like the USSR did in former times".

Great, this guy compares the tactics of the former USSR with the current tactics of the USA! This country is slowly becoming a police state, they watch every of your step.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
Sabena332
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 6:25 am

Sorry, I forgot: You are automatically on the list of the "suspicious guys" when you order an inflight meal that do not consists pork meat because they think you are a Muslim.

Does that mean that the US customs will check me more intensive just because I don`t like pork meat? Sorry but I think it is better to spend your vacation in an other country when I only think about the queues in front of the immigration desks after an 11 hour flight.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
Leezyjet
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:41 am

The land of the FREE !!!!!

Yeah OK, they are so full of $h!t, but it is quite amusing that it's almost harder to get into the US now than it was into the USSR !!!.  Nuts

Europe has been living with the terrorist threat for years (some of it funded by the US incidently), but we don't crap our pants and demand to know every little thing about every person entering the EU. They get attacked once and thats it. Everyone is now a suspect and has to suffer.

I got about 5 more trips planned to the US, then they can stick it where the sun don't shine.

I can't be bothered with all their crap each time I enter and being spoken to like a criminal by law enforcement agencies, and I'm white European. Makes me wonder what it's like for other races if it's that bad for me.

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
747-451
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:46 am

"By the way, this information is not only available to the FBI but to all US law enforcement agencies."


So what? it's about time we effectively tracked "visitors and otherwise" here...
 
Jj
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:47 am

Acording to my father, it was easier for him to get into the ex USSR than it is to get into the USA nowadays.... well, guess we'll find another place that someway replaces the US....
 
I LOVE EWR
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:50 am

I honestly DON'T see what the problem with this is? The United States is trying to protect ourselves from future Terroristic Attacks. If this helps than it is worth it to me.
 
trey
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:55 am

If the securtiy probelm bothers you then don't come. No one is making you. I play hell everytime I come back to the UK from the USA (I live here now) and vice versa and I am a USA citizen. Doesn't bother me a bit. I find some of it silly, but I find the same here at LHR on arrival. Visiting a foreign country regardless of where or when is a privildge and not a right, so keep that in mind.
 
tzsfo
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 9:46 am

What's the big deal??? Customs doesn't actually have "access" to the information...Meaning that they can't just access the GDS at will...The information has to be sent to them by the carrier. A lot of countries do this...When our SFO-CUN flight departs we have to transmit the PNR data to Mexican customs...If the data isn't transmitted and received by Mexican Customs our AC could be refused landing rights....Same for the US. I don't see the big deal - This is just another way for countries to protect themselves and has been going on long before 9/11. Airlines are not the only ones required to provide the manifests either...Cruise ships and other modes of transportation are required to send them as well...

my $0.02

TZ
It takes nerves of steel to stay neurotic. — Herb Kelleher
 
OO-AOG
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 10:15 am

Traveling to the US is getting really out of question for me, I have really enough of all the random checks and immigration questions. But last week, I had even a worst experience than the US....while flying in/out New-Delhi!
Falcon....like a limo but with wings
 
clipper471
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 10:15 am

What would happen now if "Joe American" were to fly from Canada or Mexico on a foreign airline to Cuba? Would he now be caught since US Customs now can view your overseas travel itineraries?

[Edited 2003-04-16 03:23:09]
 
Kappa13
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 10:21 am

I don't see what the big deal is. I don't have anything to hide. I was surprise though when I was traveling back to Vermont from Canada and the Customs lady started talking to me about being a student pilot. She had that information on her computer. No it wasn't the conversation about being a terrorist but what's it like and that kind of stuff.. But it probably depends on the person you get. But anyway, as long as they aren't constantly calling my house or stuff like that I don't see a problem having information about me. Hell I would even give them information if that would help.

Todd
 
speedbirdyvr
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 10:33 am

Leezyjet is right. Europe has been living with the terrorist threat for years, but they don't scrutinize people this way. It just shows you how effective and better-trained law enforcement officials are in other countries without having to invade people's privacy. I think it's sad that it has come down to this because it affects trade and the flow of businessmen and women, even those with legitimate reasons. Globalization is the reason why the US is an economic and military powerhouse, but with the current isolationist policy of the Bush administration, one has to wonder whether this spells the end for US might, much like the collapse of the British, Roman and other empires over the course of history.
 
racko
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 10:57 am

The problem is, they've access to all data, even if I don't come to the US, they can get all my flight details.

 
gigneil
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 11:21 am

I sincerely doubt they have access to all data.

N
 
tzsfo
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 11:23 am

Racko - While I can't read German and don't have a clue what the article says above....I am guessing it says that US Customs can "access" all information on the GDSs. I think that is media over-reaction...US customs can only access what the airlines send...only that...not the entire system...
It takes nerves of steel to stay neurotic. — Herb Kelleher
 
captaink
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 11:56 am

When you close a flight to the US on BWIA's system.. (we use Sabre) information is sent to US Immigration of passengers travel info, and travel documents.

All our flights to Trinidad invloves the same procedures. In fact if we input the incorrect information, eg, wrong country code... the airline incurs a US5000.00 fine.. Stiff penalty.

Alot of countries, even in the caribbean, has access to airlines systems. In Grenada that is just now beeing set up. They even got nice LCD's.. and we at checkin are stuck with the big buts.  Smile
There is something special about planes....
 
Setjet
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 6:16 pm

"If the security problem bothers you then don't come. No one is making you."

The thing is: Regardless whether you are flying from Europe to the US or from Europe to Europe, the DO have access to ALL saved information. So even if I don't want to come to the land of the free and brave, I have no alternative but to hand out all my details to some other countries law enforcement agencies.

I have no problem with "the war on terrorism", living in New York I should see the need for this. But forcing foreign carriers to let them access their reservation system for ALL bookings goes a too far...

 
captaink
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 9:56 pm

Should you care whether they have access to your PNR or not? Do you have anything to hide? I don't. I don't care whether they look or not, it's just travelling and I have nothing to hide.
There is something special about planes....
 
gigneil
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Wed Apr 16, 2003 11:21 pm

Setjet- Again, I sincerely doubt this is the case. There is no way they have access to a foreign national's flight data if that foreign national is not coming to the United States.

N
 
Sabena332
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Thu Apr 17, 2003 2:37 am

Setjet- Again, I sincerely doubt this is the case. There is no way they have access to a foreign national's flight data if that foreign national is not coming to the United States.

I saw the report yesterday evening and it is true that the US customs have access to all data, even when the flight don`t originate or land in the USA!

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
747-451
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Thu Apr 17, 2003 2:41 am

I honestly DON'T see what the problem with this is....

the only people that have a problem are the paranoid and those that have something to hide. If you use the internet for shopping banking etc, all that is privy to hackers and screwballs, so privacy is nil there. And No, I don't think someone should be able to come here if they have let's say spent months in the Bekka Valley or other places on the verboten list...Itt would have been nice if we more effectively "traced" Atta for instance....
 
Sabena332
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Thu Apr 17, 2003 2:49 am

the only people that have a problem are the paranoid and those that have something to hide.

You are correct, I have indeed something to hide and that is my credit card number.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
jhooper
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Thu Apr 17, 2003 3:09 am

but with the current isolationist policy of the Bush administration

Doesn't isolationism mean that we generally stay out of world affairs? Well, I'd say that's pretty far from the truth.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the way, Americans can go to Cuba if they travel from another country such as Mexico. They just can't spend any money there  Big grin So I'm told they usually don't stamp your passport if you go to Cuba, since it'd be pretty hard to prove you didn't spend money there if your passport contained a record of travel to Cuba.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
747-451
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Thu Apr 17, 2003 3:11 am

You are correct, I have indeed something to hide and that is my credit card number...

The don't use it on the Internet to buy your ticket, or use it in a store either  Yeah sure since someone may see it and use it fraudulently...read my post....
 
petertenthije
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Thu Apr 17, 2003 4:23 am

All airlines have to reveal this information now. Today it was a topic on "Netwerk" on Dutch TV station nederland1.
It said that the KLM had to rewrite its booking system so US autorities including the CIA could acces it. Of course this will be paid for by KLM with no refund. This has already costed KLM several 100's of thousands of euros.
If KLM does not do this they were threatened with fines, delays and even that their US slots would be revoked.

Next to the amendments in the computer sysem the latest demand by the US is that the airlines ask all passengers where they are going, for how long, why etc. This will of course slow down booking-in quite considerably.

European Parliament is demanding the European Commision to stop

Article in Dutch only.
http://www.netwerk.tv/index.jsp?p=items&r=netwerk&a=23796

Attamottamotta!
 
BIK
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Thu Apr 17, 2003 4:57 am

Americans can already listen to our phone calls, read our e-mails, read our mail, find out anything and everything about us and you are worried that they are going to find out that you went to cuba for a holiday?

IMO the fact that they can read your itinerary should be the least of your worries.

 
747-451
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Thu Apr 17, 2003 5:08 am

"If KLM does not do this they were threatened with fines, delays and even that their US slots would be revoked.

Next to the amendments in the computer sysem the latest demand by the US is that the airlines ask all passengers where they are going, for how long, why etc. This will of course slow down booking-in quite considerably."

Americans can already listen to our phone calls, read our e-mails, read our mail, find out anything and everything about us and you are worried that they are going to find out that you went to cuba for a holiday?

IMO the fact that they can read your itinerary should be the least of your worries."

All these complaints. Give me a break, consider how private your life really is as I have said, this will seem like nothing. Besides if you really have a problem with it, don't come here  Insane and if the airlines don'tt want to comply, don't fly here.

And sure BIK, only the "Americans" right....please, gag me.
 
KUGN
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Thu Apr 17, 2003 5:23 am

Absolutely - if you don't want to comply, don't fly there.




Clipper471:

"What would happen now if "Joe American" were to fly from Canada or Mexico on a foreign airline to Cuba? Would he now be caught since US Customs now can view your overseas travel itineraries? "


Two words - Jose Padilla.
 
petertenthije
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Thu Apr 17, 2003 6:51 am

I can understand that the US autorities want to know who is coming into and out of the US, that is their good right. What I object to is that they change the rules and that as a consequence KLM as well as all other airlines that fly to the US have to adapt their computer systems at their own cost. This, and the added time now required to check-in, costs the airlines a lot of money. Money that can be spend better. I think it would have been more fair if the US autorities covered the expenses, or at least a good part of it.

If tomorrow the US autorities to decide that it is no longer allowed to use SUV's because they consume to much fuel, would you not expect that the owners of SUV' would get some money to buy a new car?

(not the best of examples, but you'll get the idea)
Attamottamotta!
 
Stratofish
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Thu Apr 17, 2003 7:20 am

"The don't use it on the Internet to buy your ticket, or use it in a store either..."

So I should pay my next flight cash???

If I don't fly to the US it is really none of their business where I fly to, how I paid for it etc.

Oh, and all the data is only being used for the fight against terrorism... take off these pink glasses, will you?

Stratofish
The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
 
747-451
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Thu Apr 17, 2003 7:39 am

"What I object to is that they change the rules and that as a consequence KLM as well as all other airlines that fly to the US have to adapt their computer systems at their own cost"

We are not in the business of subsidizing airlines to comply with our rules. If a foreign airliner for instance can't meet noise regulations in the US, it must be converted to comply at the carriers cost or they have to use another type of airframe. That's the rules. Deal with it. Because foreign airlines have requirements of US carriers as well.


"Oh, and all the data is only being used for the fight against terrorism... take off these pink glasses, will you?"

Why what else do youy thin it is used for, to get your credit card numbers and buy stuff duty free?  Insane


 
KUGN
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Thu Apr 17, 2003 9:09 am

Petertenthije,

other industries as well have been served with increasingly stricter regulations, and higher standards that have raised the cost of operating business within US market. They have had to adapt at own cost as well. The best what you can expect is phased-in implementation, and comparing to the other regulations in the industry I work at -- in my judgement this one has been quite fair.
 
SailorOrion
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Thu Apr 17, 2003 3:16 pm

Some people really have no idea what they are talking about here. A person who is protecting his/her privacy is sane, not paranoid. I am very cautious about anyone who is recording any of my data. Being of eastern European/eastern German origin, I am very well aware to what this leads. Ask the people there they had it for over 40 years.

I was surprise though when I was traveling back to Vermont from Canada and the Customs lady started talking to me about being a student pilot.

I think this is one of the most scary posts in this thread. The Customs have no right to know this, and it is none of their business. It is their business to check the goods I am bringing in and out.

"The don't use it on the Internet to buy your ticket, or use it in a store either..."

So I should pay my next flight cash???


You may want to laugh, but thats exactly what I do. Last week, I purchased a C class ticket for my sister MUC-NRT. I went to the bank, withdrew the money, and payed 4000+ EUR cash, in bills of 50.

Americans can already listen to our phone calls, read our e-mails, read our mail, find out anything and everything about us and you are worried that they are going to find out that you went to cuba for a holiday?

Well, luckily they cannot track ALL the phone calls at the same time, for e-mail I use 4096-bit encryption in case sensitive data is contained, and for the mail... if they want to read my bills ... it would get boring with time.

Visiting a foreign country regardless of where or when is a privildge and not a right, so keep that in mind.

This is a statement which REALLY makes my hair stand up. Especially from an American. Freedom of movement is a RIGHT in the western world. So is privacy. I more and more fear our governments than I do fear the terrorists. What happened to the land of the free? the home of the brave? where did they go??

The war on terror is NOT worth limiting any right. not by a bit. I'd rather die in freedom than live in a police state.

SailorOrion
 
Sabena332
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Fri Apr 18, 2003 12:56 am

This is a statement which REALLY makes my hair stand up. Especially from an American. Freedom of movement is a RIGHT in the western world. So is privacy.

I agree absolutely, nobody need to know where I spend my last weekend or in which country I will spend my next vacations (of course not in the USA, that is for sure!), even the German customs is not interested in my personal data, so why should it be the business of the American customs?

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
747-451
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Privacy Whining

Fri Apr 18, 2003 4:50 am

"This is a statement which REALLY makes my hair stand up. Especially from an American. Freedom of movement is a RIGHT in the western world. So is privacy. "

NOT exactly. There is no "universal agreement with all free countries to guarantee the right to travel". Secondly, every so called "free country" has visa, immigration and other regulations regarding foreign nationals within their borders. And after 9/11, we have no choice but to make getting in and staying in more selective. Yes you have a right to travel, but to get into a country is a privledge that is "granted"--and every soverign nation has the right to allow or deny this privledge.

The right to privacy is a right, but it is YOUR duty to maintain it. It is also subjective to each person. Some people are more private than others. Some people have somethign to hide, others don't. Personally, I don't care if the airline knows where I was on my last flight or that they have my credit info (actually, they have a right to access Mastercard, for instance, to see if your account is able to pay the ticket.) Like I said many times and it soesn't sink in to many here, if you think the airlines are privy to all kinds of "private" info, well so is the goverments (when you pay taxes), your drivers license (your Social Security number, address) insurance (all of your medical, life and auto insurance data, which includes all kinds of persoanl things like your health and bank accounts are all shared amongst them. Same for Equifax, TRW etc etc. So stop whining about privacy, because guess wht, we don't have all that much.... Yeah sure


"Being of eastern European/eastern German origin, I am very well aware to what this leads"

That was in the past. Let go of the paranoia.
 
Setjet
Topic Author
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Fri Apr 18, 2003 5:08 am

To anybody who is still unclear of the new "freedom" (that is for US Customs of course!):

http://www.britishairways.com/AskBA.servlet?audience=travel&eId=112001&url=http://askba.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/generic_row.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php&p_sid=Nzlr7ZGg&p_lva=&p_faqid=1621&p_created=1046717672&p_sp=cF9ncmlkc29ydD0mcF9yb3dfY250PTQxJnBfc2VhcmNoX3RleHQ9JnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9MyZwX2NhdF9sdmwxPTEmcF9jYXRfbHZsMj1_YW55fiZwX3BhZ2U9MQ**&p_li=

The thing that get´s overlooked in a few responses: US authorities now have the ability and RIGHT to get all saved data for ALL flights, regardless if it is an international one or a domestic one.

So if you are British, you fly whithin Britain from London to Manchester, US authorities will have your data!
 
gigneil
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Fri Apr 18, 2003 5:41 am

That is not what it says, at all. You're taking the words and running away into lalaland with them.

It says specifically in several locations on that page that information will only be disclosed to countries in your itinerary, as they have the legal right to request it.

It does not say anywhere that the US has the right to get data for all flights, and, in fact, it explicitly says they don't in the first paragraph and implicitly suggests same in several other places.


N
 
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airzim
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Fri Apr 18, 2003 2:40 pm

Talk about playing fast and lose with the facts; you people are unbelievable. Not only is the US doing this, but it also clearly states that Canada, Australia and the UK are also considering similar legislation.

It also clearly states that the information contained in the booking information can only be used for the purposes of conducting security screening of persons entering the USA. While they have access to this data, they are not arbitrarily using it against you. And as has been stated above, anytime you request a new credit card, buy a car/house, etc., credit reporting agencies have the right to access you data and pass it on to the lending agents. Privacy is an illusion in today's world.

It can only be accessed by the USA if the passenger is flying to and from the USA. Therefore US Customs is not looking at your information on a LHR-MAN flight. However maybe the UK government is, while I don't see you so called libertarians chastising them.

Look the US bashing needs to stop. If you seriously think that Belgium and Germany are so much more free and liberal than the US you are living in a dream world. And given the chance, if you ask any refugee where they would rather be, in the EU or the US, 8 out of 10 have said they would rather be in the States. That says alot.
 
Setjet
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Fri Apr 18, 2003 5:32 pm

"If you seriously think that Belgium and Germany are so much more free and liberal than the US you are living in a dream world."

Legally in Germany access to Amadeus is not possible by the BND (Bundesnachrichtendienst), and probably will never be. Just read SailorOrion's post and you know why!

"And given the chance, if you ask any refugee where they would rather be, in the EU or the US, 8 out of 10 have said they would rather be in the States. That says a lot."

Actually that doesn't say a lot. It just says that many refugees prefer to live in a land where they can use the only foreign language they can speak and where they can make on average 1.5 times than what they would earn in most European countries.
 
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airzim
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RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Sat Apr 19, 2003 6:39 am

The real question is, is the story that the German TV program reported correct? I think several people in this forum have given alternative notions of the "truth."

Regardless, any government has the right to deny access to those that they do not want to enter their country. Legally before you cross that yellow line at Frankfurt Airport, JFK, Sydney or Heathrow you are in no-mans land. You are not entitled to legal representation, a phone call, access to financial funds, etc. All they have to do is turn you around and send you back to where you came. Incidentally, if someone tries to enter a country without the proper paperwork guess who has to pay for their return flight? The airline that brought them there. I can assure you that in addition to the seat costs the airlines must also pay a fine and any air carrier is going to minimise that risk.

This is called security. Today while transiting FRA airport I went through two security screeners, was patted down twice, even though I didn't set any alarms off on the metal detector, and asked to remove my wallet and put it through the machine. In all my years of traveling, I have never been asked to take my wallet out. Did I think it was rational? Hell no. Did I have to put up with it so that I could board my flight? Hell yes. As I was cursing about German "security" as I walked down the jetway I thought about this conversation. And as perturbed as I was, I realised that this is a new way of life and if I want to fly, I better get used to it. Or not transit through Germany anymore, which I am seriously contemplating.

And the last point for the night, any country where you can speak a language that you understand and make 1.5 times more than in Europe doesn't sound bad to me. You may disagree with the American government, you may even dislike Americans. But you can't disagree with the ideals. Albeit we don't always live up to those ideals.

The US is my adopted country. I choose to live there. I am more American than most Yanks since instead of taking it for granted because I was born there, I made a decision. And they accepted me. I am American. Like the millions before me.

Those Turks that live in Germany will never be German. Those Algerians in Paris will never be French. But they can all be Americans.

(God bless America plays in the background).

OK it was a little cheeky but I hope you get my point.
 
Setjet
Topic Author
Posts: 1140
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:54 am

RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Sun Apr 20, 2003 1:20 am

Thanks Airzim for your response!
I understand your point and fully agree with almost everything you wrote.

As another interesting side note:
Every (foreign) airline is required by foreign law to "teach" there passengers how to fill out the US Entry Cards correctly. Any single form with a mistake by any passenger can result in a fine of up to $5000 FOR THE AIRLINE!
As an US citizen, are you required to fill in any form? No!  Confused

I hope you get my point!
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Sun Apr 20, 2003 1:40 am

As an US citizen, are you required to fill in any form? No!

Er, yes we are. American citizens are still required to fill out a customs declaration which includes information on where you have been, the purpose of your trip, and where you will be staying if you are an US citizen living abroad. You are still subject to passport control, and to declare what you have purchased abroad and are brining into the country.

We are not, however, reqired to fill out an immegration form, but then, I doubt most countries require their own citizens to fill them out upon returning home, furthermore, it would be pointless for local nationals to do so given what is asked on the customs form.

Charles SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
Setjet
Topic Author
Posts: 1140
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:54 am

RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Sun Apr 20, 2003 6:27 am

"As an US citizen, are you required to fill in any form? No!"

Of course I meant: US citizens are not required to fill out any card when entering the EU!
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Sun Apr 20, 2003 6:34 am

In all my years of traveling, I have never been asked to take my wallet out.

You are joking, right?

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Airzim

Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:08 am

Airzim: Those Turks that live in Germany will never be German. Those Algerians in Paris will never be French. But they can all be Americans.

You´ve got a bunch of strange ideas...  Nuts

European societies have always integrated immigrants from other countries through the past millenia and have never really stopped doing that, despite some setbacks.

Today we´ve got numerous citizens with french, polish, russian, italian, turkish and many other roots in Germany. Add to that the increasing openness due to a growing awareness of our european "family" and you´ve got a situation that´s not really fundamentally different from the USA in that respect.

Just try to look beyond your prejudices, once in a while. It´s kinda essential for any kind of integration...
 
Jumbolino
Posts: 473
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 4:15 am

RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:28 am

Guys !
please tell me urgently that this isn't true !
I had no flight and I will not have any flights to the US and although
they have all my data including my credit card ?! P... o.. !

Jumbolino, not amused ....
Kind Regards, Jutta.
 
thadocta
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 9:44 am

RE: US Customs Has Access To All Amadeus Data...

Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:42 am

Looking at this thread, I see an underlying theme (and I admit, I have only read half-way through it, before I got bored) - "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear".

What about your much vaunted protection provided by an obscure 18th century document against "undue search and seizure"?

I presume that the next time you are pulled over by the cops and subjected to a search without a search warrant, rather than screaming "Where is your warrant" you will say "I have nothing to hide, so you can do whatever you want to do".

We here in Australia have "Random Breath Testing" of drivers, whereby six to ten cars will be pulled over at random, and the drivers breathilysed. In the United States, this would be illegal, they need to have reasonable grounds to suspect that the driver is intoxicated. Random checks are unlawful.

What is the difference here? Why are my QF flight details (SYD-MEL, etc) available to US officials? It has got absolutely NOTHING to do with them.

And any US citizen who claims that "I have nothing to hide, so I should have nothing to fear" should trot that line out next time the cops wish to search their place without a warrant.

Dave

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