brianhames
Posts: 743
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2000 2:22 pm

Confused About KLM 747 At Tenerife Disaster

Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:18 am

I've always been interested in the Tenerife accident back in March of '77, as my Grandparents had friends onboard the Pan Am 747 who, thankfully, survived.

However, I am confused about the registration number of the KLM 747 involved, "The Rhine." As I was browsing pictures of the Pan Am 747 (N736PA) in the a.net database, I came across this picture:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Howard Chaloner


It says that the KLM plane involved had PH-BUF for its registration. I noticed that the NTSB website lists a different registration, PH-BUP:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=55835&key=0

A search of the a.net database came up with nothing for PH-BUF. However, when I ran PH-BUP, it came up with this:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Miguel Snoep



This confuses me because it dosen't make sense that KLM would recycle the registration number of their 747 that was destroyed years ago. But I would also like to be believe that the NTSB has their facts straight.

So can someone enlighten me as to which, if either, is the correct registration of "The Rhine?" That was invovled in the Tenerife accident?

Thanks

Brian
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3454
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: Confused About KLM 747 At Tenerife Disaster

Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:23 am

It really was PH-BUF. Probably a mis-read on the NTSB webmaster's part.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
brianhames
Posts: 743
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2000 2:22 pm

RE: Confused About KLM 747 At Tenerife Disaster

Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:29 am

Thats probably true, the webmaster could have been reading a hand written document, and F and P kinda look the same. But thanks for clearing that up. too bad there aren't any photos of it in the database.

Brian
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3454
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: Confused About KLM 747 At Tenerife Disaster

Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:31 am

AirDisaster.com has a picture of both aircraft sitting on the ramp at Tenerife an hour before the crash. Not quite airliners.net quality, but VERY interesting nonetheless.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
Going64
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:01 pm

RE: Confused About KLM 747 At Tenerife Disaster

Wed Apr 16, 2003 4:06 pm

Some links I mentioned 27-03-2003 on this horrible accident:

More info on: http://aviation-safety.net/specials/tenerife/index.htm
And the KLM aircraft PH-BUF (River Rhine): http://aviation-safety.net/pictures/displayphoto.php?id=19770327-1&vnr=1&kind=PC

Peter
 
na
Posts: 9170
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Confused About KLM 747 At Tenerife Disaster

Wed Apr 16, 2003 4:11 pm

Btw, PH-BUF was one of the first aircraft to be painted into the then new blue KLM-colourscheme.

PH-BUP is a later aquisition of KLM, now stored in SW-US.
 
ra-85154
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 10:16 pm

RE: Confused About KLM 747 At Tenerife Disaster

Wed Apr 16, 2003 6:23 pm

Obviously a 'typing' error from NTSB. It was defenitely Boeing 747-206B PH-BUF (20400) "Rijn/The Rhine", which came into service with KLM in 1971.

http://aviation-safety.net/pictures/displayphoto.php?id=19770327-1&vnr=1&kind=PC




Also, to contradict other stories, PH-BUF was carrying the 'blue-top' KLM livery in 1977(not the old 'white-top' one). It already had this livery in 1975 as above pictures show.
 
petertenthije
Posts: 3267
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

RE: Confused About KLM 747 At Tenerife Disaster

Thu Apr 17, 2003 2:56 am

At aviation-safety.net you can find a picture of the KLM plane with the full colours!

To see it go to the picture library and ask for "crashed aircraft, sorted by aircraft type". You will find the picture on page 5.

I do not know how to post the picture in here. I tried posting a direct link to the picture but that will not work for one reason or another.

Attamottamotta!
 
Vain~
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2001 10:58 pm

RE: Confused About KLM 747 At Tenerife Disaster

Thu Apr 17, 2003 3:02 am

This is not really related to the accident itself, but i always wondered :

The Panam ac diverted from Las Palmas (LPA), coming from LAX and JFK,
was this a scheduled flight, a "regular charter" or a adhoc of something else?
did Panam have more of this rather strange destinations in europe?
and did other big american carriers this aswell?

Tia, Vain~
 
drdivo
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Confused About KLM 747 At Tenerife Disaster

Thu Apr 17, 2003 3:07 am

The Pan Am was operating as a charter - they were to meet up with a cruise ship in Las Palmas.

I have a good friend who lost his uncle on the Pan Am ship.
Respectfully - the Divo
 
GARUDAROD
Posts: 1137
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 4:39 am

RE: Confused About KLM 747 At Tenerife Disaster

Thu Apr 17, 2003 3:18 am


Both B747s were charter flights operating for cruises. The PA flight
originated in LAX and just changed crews in JFK. There are numerous
articles about the crash, cause and effects. Let us hope such a disaster
never happens again..
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Confused About KLM 747 At Tenerife Disaster

Thu Apr 17, 2003 3:47 am

Both were also diversions from LPA.
LPA was closed due to a terrorist incident (bombthreat), leaving Teneriffe Sur overcrowded.
Pilots were unfamiliar with the airport, leading in the end to the accident (together with other factors like fatigue and controllers who didn't speak good English (leading to errors in interpretation of ATC instructions)).
I wish I were flying
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3454
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: Confused About KLM 747 At Tenerife Disaster

Thu Apr 17, 2003 4:19 am

Clipper Victor (the Pan Am ship) operated the first 747 service didn't she?
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
drdivo
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Confused About KLM 747 At Tenerife Disaster

Thu Apr 17, 2003 4:22 am

Yes, Clipper Victor operated the first 747 service, with a sticker re-naming her "Clipper America"
Respectfully - the Divo
 
brianhames
Posts: 743
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2000 2:22 pm

RE: Confused About KLM 747 At Tenerife Disaster

Thu Apr 17, 2003 4:38 am

Thanks for help guys.

Has anyone ever read the book "Terror at Tenerife?" Its really good, written buy a survivor on the Pan Am 747. Its out of print now but you can still find it around.

Brian
 
kaitak
Posts: 8969
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Confused About KLM 747 At Tenerife Disaster

Thu Apr 17, 2003 5:22 am

It is still eerie to think of the last words in the cockpit, (apart from the final expletives). The FE was the one who said "is he not clear, that Pan American", but the captain insisted he was. He was anxious to get out of there, due to crew hour restrictions and pushed the throttles forward, until reminded by the FO that he didn't have clearance. There was confusion about the words, "we are at takeoff".

A terrible tragedy for two great airlines, one of which is thankfully still with us.
 
diezel
Posts: 622
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 6:50 pm

RE: Confused About KLM 747 At Tenerife Disaster

Thu Apr 17, 2003 6:54 am

The industry learned a lot about this extremely black day in aviation.

If you are interested, I can recommend this book: "The Naked Pilot" by David Beaty (isbn 1-85310-482-5). It is an excellent book about the human factor in aircraft accidents. What went wrong and what we learned from it. It is still in print as far as I know.
Never be afraid of what you like. (Miles Davis)
 
AWspicious
Posts: 2780
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 7:47 am

RE: Confused About KLM 747 At Tenerife Disaster

Thu Apr 17, 2003 11:21 am

Some more trivia on this incident: The captain of the KLM flight, Cpt. Van Zanten,(correct spelling/pronounciation??) had been photographed for advertisments for the airline. He was (at the time) the company's star pilot.

aw
Nevermind political correctness - Envision using your turn signals!