AirT85
Topic Author
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Continued Growth Of AirTran

Fri Apr 25, 2003 2:34 am

AirTran has been doing phenomenally lately, and in turn, has some pretty hefty growth plans in the works. (judging from the apparent order for up to 100 more aircraft). My question is this, they have only added a couple new markets from their Atlanta hub in the past year, and have been connecting a lot more dots in the meantime. With only a limited number of gates in Atlanta (I believe just the half of Concourse C) where do they plan on putting new airplanes for not only themselves but JetConnect, as well. Are there any open gates AirTran could take up to facilitate more Atlanta growth? I assume they have a little more growing room left in those gates but what happens when they max out. When its time for their big west-coast push, where are all those planes gonna be parked?

Thanks,
Tony
Why would God make us all so different, if He wanted us to be the same?
 
m717
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Fri Apr 25, 2003 2:49 am

AirTran is pretty much maxed out with gate space at ATL. The only solutions I see are to focus expansion in other cities, ie...more "focus" cities and more point-to-point. One thing I'm not certain of is the utilization of the gates in ATL. As a pilot, I only see ATL at the various "pushes" during the course of the day. Is there a possibility of varying these pushes or is there space in the day/night for additional "pushes"? Someone with better knowledge of the station operation would have to answer those questions. Regardless, one thing I am certain of. Mr.s Leonard and Fornaro, et.al. have a plan, and without a doubt, have taken this all into consideration.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Fri Apr 25, 2003 2:58 am

AirTran may try to move more north-south connecting traffic to BWI, to open up space at ATL for transcons. On my BWI-ROC flights, it's not unsual (if the baggage tags I see at the ROC carousel are any indicator) for a third of the pax to be connecting. Given the DC-Baltimore metroglom's excellent O & D market, AirTran could probably grow BWI from a focus city to a mini-hub if needed. CAK-BWI is apparently being discussed, and DAY-BWI would probably support a couple of dailies.

Also, the O & D density in the BWI catchment area could probaly also support a couple of transcons of its own without stepping on WN's toes.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
m717
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Fri Apr 25, 2003 3:03 am

I know this has been discussed here before, but I have heard Mr. Leonard say on more than one occasion that he intends to tread lightly at BWI so as not to agitate SWA too much. With the additional gates we have (or will have) at PHL, I get the feeling that PHL will be seeing a significant amount of expansion, as well.
 
AirT85
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Fri Apr 25, 2003 4:19 am

When I travel through it Atlanta its always hit or miss with C concourse, its either packed or only has one or two aircraft on a side. Do you think AirTran might start turning ATL into a rolling-hub more so than it is already? AirTran is no stranger to running a high number of flights with just one gate (BOS) could the same be in the works for ATL?
Tony
Why would God make us all so different, if He wanted us to be the same?
 
atcboy73
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Fri Apr 25, 2003 4:36 am

How many gates does Air Tran have at PHL and how many are they going to have?

Part of me thinks that AirTran would be wise to move a little of the planed expansion away from DL so as to not be totally vulnerable to a DL price war.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Fri Apr 25, 2003 5:42 am

On its face, PHL would be an excellent market for an FL mini-hub, and several have mentioned M717's point before about rumors of it happening. PHL has a big O & D market and is well-positioned to move passengers north-south. But PHL like PIT has a big business community which has the US Airways FF needle jabbed deep into its arm. US drove FL out of PHL-PIT and PIT-LGA; we'll have to see what happens on PHL-BOS.

God speed to AirTran if they attempt a PHL mini-hub, but they might find it rough going. At BWI they can work around Southwest, whereas US & US Express pretty much fly to every long driveway within 500 miles from PHL. I know, I know, AirTran is hubbed up against DL at home, but PHL has a track record of recent resistance to FL on a key business pax-heavy route, which Atlanta doesn't.

Last I knew four of the new gates at the end of E were intended for AirTran, which means 4 x about 10 dailies max each, so FL could theoretically run 40 dailies from that space. Don't know if FL took more than two of those gates, though.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
usairways85
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Fri Apr 25, 2003 5:43 am

AirTran currently operates 2 or 3 gates out of Terminal F in PHL. A terminal built soley for US Airways Express. AirTran should be moving in the near future to Terminal D where they will have 4 gates. This move should have been made a while ago but the slow pace construction of Airtran's new gates has delayed it.

If i am correct i believe under lease aggreements Airtran will have to operate a min. of 4 or 5 flts a day out of each gate in order to keep the gate. Someone correct me if am wrong. So right there Airtran will have to operate 20 flts from those gates if they choose to use all of them(up from 12 or 13 flts now).
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Fri Apr 25, 2003 5:53 am

Wow, AirTran is still in F? The new gates I was referring to were the ones in D, thanks for mentioning the correct concourse USAirways85. Maybe UAPHLCS will chime in, he tends to know a lot about goings-on at PHL too.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
usairways85
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Fri Apr 25, 2003 6:49 am

Yes UAPHLCS typically has some good info on this matter. I am pretty sure FL is still using Terminal F because i thought i saw a FL plane at F when i flew PHL-SJU last Thurs. But i may be wrong as i think the move should be coming soon.
 
ScottB
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Fri Apr 25, 2003 8:21 am

From the PHL (http://www.phl.org/ and http://www.phl.org/cgi-bin/fidsdepart.pl) website:

DATE: 04/24/03 TIME: 1852

AIRTRAN 783 FT MYERS 1825 1825 F13
AIRTRAN 775 ORLANDO 1915 1915 F15
AIRTRAN 299 HOUSTON HOBBY 1935 1935 F13
AIRTRAN 299 ATLANTA 1935 1935 F13

Ironically US Airways still comes up as USAIR. (Then again HP is "AMERICAN WEST" according to PHL, too.)

AirTran also has a few gates on one end of Concourse D at ATL which seem to mostly (or only) be used for JetConnect flights. I thought that all of Concourse E was "common-use" so they *could* use some of those gates if absolutely necessary.

I don't think that AirTran has much interest in competing directly against Southwest on many routes from BWI; compare their full fare in coach between ROC and BWI ($112-152) to Southwest's $71 between BUF and BWI. Or $112-162 between BOS and BWI versus $75 between PVD/MHT and BWI.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Fri Apr 25, 2003 8:36 am

Who has the rest of the space in Concourse C? I thought AirTran had just about all of that Concourse, as EA did way back when. (I know EA had half of B as well, which DL now has)
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
exusair
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:36 am

ASA is at the north end of C in ATL. I see AirTran and JetConnect on D-Concourse in ATL. Are they running flights from those gates as well?

By the way rumor mill was that AirTran will build its own concourse in ATL on the south side of ATL when the 5th rwy is complete......
 
flyinryan99
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:38 am

AirTran Airways Announces Enhanced Service Between Akron-Canton and New York - Laguardia -
Thursday April 24, 6:24 pm ET
Third Daily Nonstop Flight Begins July 2, 2003


ORLANDO, Fla.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--April 24, 2003--AirTran Airways, a subsidiary of AirTran Holdings, Inc. (NYSE:AAI - News), today announced that, effective July 2, 2003, the low-fare airline will add one daily nonstop flight from Akron-Canton Airport to New York's LaGuardia Airport, bringing the total number of daily nonstop flights between the cities to three. In addition, AirTran Airways currently offers daily nonstop service to Atlanta and Orlando from Akron-Canton. All direct service will feature new Boeing 717 jet aircraft. Tickets are now available for purchase.
"In response to strong customer demand since we began nonstop service in March, we are pleased to add our third Akron-Canton to New York departure," stated Robert L. Fornaro, AirTran Airways' president and COO. "The new flights will offer more flexibility for our business and leisure travelers, and we are confident these flights will build on our success at Akron-Canton Airport."

-0-

Service effective July 2, 2003:

Akron-Canton to LaGuardia Nonstop Service

Flight Departs Arrives
----------------------------------------
201 7:45 a.m. 9:20 a.m.
----------------------------------------
198(a) 12:15 p.m. 1:50 p.m.
----------------------------------------
203 4:40 p.m. 6:15 p.m.
----------------------------------------

LaGuardia to Akron-Canton Nonstop Service

Flight Departs Arrives
----------------------------------------
202 10:00 a.m. 11:35 a.m.
----------------------------------------
199(a) 2:30 p.m. 4:05 p.m.
----------------------------------------
212 5:59 p.m. 7:40 p.m.
----------------------------------------

(a) Denotes new service starting July 2, 2003

AND

Press Release Source: AirTran Airways


AirTran Airways Announces Enhanced Service Between Newport News/Williamsburg and New York LaGuardia
Thursday April 24, 6:35 pm ET
Third Daily Nonstop Flight Begins July 2, 2003


ORLANDO, Fla.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--April 24, 2003--AirTran Airways, a subsidiary of AirTran Holdings, Inc. (NYSE:AAI - News), today announced, that effective July 2, 2003, the low-fare airline will add one daily nonstop flight from Newport News/Williamsburg International Airport to New York's LaGuardia Airport, bringing the total number of daily nonstop flights between the cities to three. In addition, AirTran Airways currently offers daily nonstop service to Atlanta and Orlando from Newport News/Williamsburg. All direct service will feature new Boeing 717 jet aircraft. Tickets are now available for purchase.
"With the addition of a third daily nonstop flight to New York, AirTran Airways meets the needs of the business and leisure travelers in the Newport News/Williamsburg area," said Robert Fornaro, AirTran Airways' president and COO. "In addition to our low fares and convenient schedule, travelers benefit from AirTran Airways' unique product offering including our affordable Business Class and our generous, newly-automated A-Plus Rewards frequent traveler program."

Service effective July 2, 2003:

Newport News/Williamsburg to LaGuardia Nonstop Service

Flight Departs Arrives
----------------------------------------------------------------------
970 7:00 a.m. 8:13 a.m.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
974(1) 2:04 p.m. 3:19 p.m.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
976 5:30 p.m. 6:53 p.m.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

LaGuardia to Newport News/Williamsburg Nonstop Service

Flight Departs Arrives
----------------------------------------------------------------------
971 8:59 a.m. 10:28 a.m.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
973(1) 3:25 p.m. 4:55 p.m.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
977 7:29 p.m. 8:53 p.m.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

AirTran Airways is one of America's largest low-fare airlines - employing more than 5,000 professional Crew Members and serving 454 flights a day to 43 destinations. The airline's hub is at Hartsfield Atlanta International Airport, the world's busiest airport (by passenger volume), where it is the second largest carrier operating 173 flights a day. The airline never requires a roundtrip purchase or Saturday night stay, and offers an affordable Business Class, assigned seating, easy online booking and check-in, the A-Plus Rewards frequent flier program, and the A2B corporate travel program. AirTran Airways also is a subsidiary of AirTran Holdings, Inc., (NYSE:AAI - News), and the world's largest operator of the Boeing 717, the most modern, environmentally friendly aircraft in its class. For more information and reservations, visit airtran.com (America Online Keyword: AirTran), call AirTran Airways at 800-AIRTRAN (800-247-8726) or 770-994-8258 (in Atlanta) or your travel agent.

Congrats to PHF and CAK!!!

Ry
 
usairways85
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:43 am

I was browsing through the Airtran schedules and come this summer Airtran will operate 5 daily flights ATL-PHL.
 
m717
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:45 am

DCA-ROCguy said:
"US drove FL out of PHL-PIT and PIT-LGA; we'll have to see what happens on PHL-BOS."

I think it's a VERY strong possibility that you will see AirTran back in the PHL-PIT market. This according to Robert Fornaro.
 
usairways85
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:02 am

M717...you seem to know a lot about Airtran, i am assuming you are a pilot for them. I have one question. Did the PHL-RSW route go to a seasonal route or was it completely cancelled?
 
m717
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:05 am

I believe it is a seasonal route. And you are correct on your assumption.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Fri Apr 25, 2003 12:26 pm

I don't think that AirTran has much interest in competing directly against Southwest on many routes from BWI; compare their full fare in coach between ROC and BWI ($112-152) to Southwest's $71 between BUF and BWI. Or $112-162 between BOS and BWI versus $75 between PVD/MHT and BWI.

There's the consequences of AirTran's 10& higher CASM right there..I've found the same thing when I've booked flights home. Still lots better than what US Gougeways charged back during the '90s, but not as low as WN. If AirTran's CASM matched Southwest's, I bet they could run four dailies on ROC-BWI instead of three.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
Guest

RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Fri Apr 25, 2003 12:36 pm

When AirTran was known as ValuJet, they attempted to build a hub at Washington Dulles. It certainly does look like they’re attempting to build up BWI now with flights to ATL, BOS, FLL, RSW, FPO, MKE, MIA, MOC, ROC and TPA. While I acknowledge that Leonard said FL would only lightly build up BWI, I take his comments with a grain of salt – he also previously said FL was interested in DTW, despite the fact that the airline is doing very well at FNT (a 60-75 minute drive from DTW) and NW crushed ValuJet when the latter served the airport in the mid-90s.
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:32 am

Geez, I was going to start my own thread on this but now I see you all talking about it here.

there where some developments today on the FL move. For a few weeks FL techs have been installing computer equipment up at FL's gates. D12, 14, 15, and 16.

I could watch the progress of the racetrack bag sort in the bag room but there was a temp wall out in the lobby where counter remodeling was going on. That temporary wall came down last night, after we all left. The bag carosel in the sort room appears ready. I think it is a matter of days before FL completes to move back to D.

Understand that I hesitated to mantion any of Fl's progress before this because they delayed it so many times before.

FYI on a UA note Easy checkin kiosks are currently being installed in PHL. system should be up and running second week of May.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
usairways85
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Sat Apr 26, 2003 1:36 pm

so it's deffinite FL will use all 4 gates at D? I guess that means some expansion.
 
Guest

RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:41 pm

UALPHLCS: have you seen any of FL's new ByePass kiosks being installed there?
 
travatl
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:42 pm

UALPHLCS -

AirTran's new "ByePass" kiosks will be installed at PHL by June.....

Travis
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Sun Apr 27, 2003 12:55 pm

Right now there is nothing in the lobby, but FL's computers. The CTX machine for Fl's use is in the lobby. This means that FL pax will have to screen there luggage before check-in. UA an CO have chosen to have the CTX screening done in the bag room. UA and CO have more room than FL does so they really had a choice. Fl's cramped quarters left none. If they place those machines in I don't know where they will put them.

The Checkpoint is still allowing check in at the gate in D becasue UA and FL do not have the machines installed yet.

We know UA's are going in in May makes sence than FL would have to follow in order for there to be 100% check-in at the ticket counter.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
ExpressJet_ERJ
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Sun Apr 27, 2003 1:37 pm

How many more CRJs will AirWis fly for AirTran? Last I heard it was 6. Any plans on getting more?
ETOPS...Engines Turn Or People Swim
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Sun Apr 27, 2003 1:57 pm

Word here in the Big Easy is that Air Tran will be adding a new nonstop destination from New Orleans...possibly BWI...all this according to FL employees. BWI would do very well for them...and of course I would say BOS but it may be a little too far for a 717.

Steve in NOLA
 
usairways85
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Sun Apr 27, 2003 2:02 pm

it could be MCO or FLL to MSY
 
travatl
Posts: 1943
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Sun Apr 27, 2003 10:06 pm

ERJ -

There are to be a total of 10 CRJs in the jetConnect flleet at year's end.

MSYTristar -

I haven't heard anything about new service at MSY, but we (ValuJet) did offer MSY-IAD nonstops at one point, so who knows.

btw, has everybody seen the new AirTran TV commercials? Here's the link....'shipping' is my favorite...

http://www.airtran.com/aboutus/ads/index.jsp

Travis
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Sun Apr 27, 2003 11:33 pm

Travis, I have to disagree with you......


.....I think "FIRED" is the best one. LOL!!  Smile
Puhdiddle
 
AmtrakGuy
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:24 am

trvlatl,

I think you're right selecting them as most funny..but the most disgusting is the mouthwash ad.

My only disappoinment out of the five ads, none of them are closed caption.

Dave
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Continued Growth Of AirTran

Mon Apr 28, 2003 7:27 am

That Mouthwash ad was pretty disgusting. I could have gone without that one.
Puhdiddle

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