flyyul
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BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:37 am

For each BA flight to YYZ the flight..

the flight does LHR-YYZ-YUL-LHR... the purpose? For the crews to stay in Montreal and avoid getting SARS.

Mark
 
quebecair727
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:47 am

BA must not have rights to pick up passengers as the two flights are not listed on ADM departure and arrival screens. So this means that we have 3 BA aircrafts at the same time in YUL (YUL-LHR + YYZ-YUL-LHR x 2).

Interesting for spotters.

 
Cessnapimp
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:52 am

Hey, anything to layover in Montreal. What a great city to have a layover in.

Seriously though, it would be easy at this point to say that they are overreacting and how useless it is and yada yada yada...

... but the fact remains that the world yesterday has been freaked out by the international community, and the move is, I find, understandable...

... besides... you guys are laying over in Montreal, THE party city! Enjoy!
 
aussiestu
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Fri Apr 25, 2003 1:46 pm


Not BA over reacting.......just looking after the safety and security of its international crews. A good move till the situation is solved. Enjoy YUL?
 
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yyz717
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Fri Apr 25, 2003 2:42 pm

Well, if I was a BA passenger, I'd be annoyed at the unnecessary YUL stop, esp given that AC continues to fly YYZ-LHR nonstop.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
aussiestu
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Fri Apr 25, 2003 3:03 pm


Well Yyz717 thats the good thing about being a passenger, you have a choice. BA and its crew dont have that option so to maintain a service to Canada they may have to alter the slipping pattern for its crew and they have chosen that option. Better to be safe than sorry hey, remember Kuwait???
 
L-188
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Fri Apr 25, 2003 3:18 pm

This Sars thing is getting out of hand.

I think the latest numbers are that out of the Toronto deaths the average age is something like 72.

Guys this is just a highly airborne version of the flu.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Fri Apr 25, 2003 3:34 pm

This Sars thing is getting out of hand. *** Guys this is just a highly airborne version of the flu.

And now some media outlets are labeling it "the next AIDS", with a billion possible infections if left uncontained for 60 weeks or more

Sad  Sad
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
L-188
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Fri Apr 25, 2003 3:41 pm

Point being is that the elderly are usually more likely to be killed by any common disease, and what do we find in the SARS patients in Toronto. Most that have died have been the elderly.


Coincidence.........................................I think not!
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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yyz717
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:47 pm

Better to be safe than sorry hey, remember Kuwait???

This shows how little you know about SARS. You are more likely to be struck by lightning in YYZ than getting SARS.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
DoorsToManual
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:51 pm

Hello

I was told by the doctor that the SARS is a version of the "common cold", so very infectious no "cure" but some days in bed with "Lemsip" and it goes away, or is it worse than that? I didn't hear it was fatal, is this right?
 
N79969
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Fri Apr 25, 2003 11:11 pm

"Guys this is just a highly airborne version of the flu."

I am not sure if this is entirely true. It is actually supposed to be less contagious than influenza but this disease and its various mutations have a mortality rate of between 5-10% depending on who you ask. Granted a large number of those deaths occured in China which has a varying levels of medical care, there have been people in their 30s, 40s, and 50s in Hong Kong who have died. Hong Kong has first rate facilities.

While I agree that fear is amplying the psychological effects of this disease, I think that fear and the resulting cautionary measures have saved at least a few lives so far.


 
Jayce
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sat Apr 26, 2003 1:21 am

I also think the media has a hand in scaring people to the point that they don't want to travel anymore.

I'm planning a trip to Toronto this summer and I'm going regardless. I may take a few extra precautions, but nothing to cancel a perfectly good vacation over.
"Trying is the first step towards failure" -Homer Simpson
 
Arrow
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sat Apr 26, 2003 4:21 am

I'd like to know the ratio of fatalities from a couple of recent flu outbreaks to get some perspective. I bet they are similar.

The over reaction to this is outrageous -- led by WHO.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
aussiestu
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sat Apr 26, 2003 4:56 am


WHO being over reactionary and outrageous, i dont think so. When was the last time you had info that a major flu epidemic had caused so many deaths? No SARS is something more and this is why WHO has issued their warning and why airlines, BA, have stopped their crews staying in Toronto. Sorry Toronto but as much as your mayor may be screaming and shouting that this is all wrong when was the last time you read of a death in OZ, NZ or GB for that matter concerning a SARS death. While it may seem trivial to some of you at least WHO is taking this seriously! SARS is a KILLER!
 
Arrow
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sat Apr 26, 2003 5:11 am

No one is saying it's trivial. But by all accounts from Ontario and federal health authorities it's contained and now appears to be diminishing. WHO issued its travel advisory mostly on erroneous information about people in other locations (Australia) having SARS that originated in Toronto. It wasn't true. When confronted with that, they quickly found another SARS-Toronto link in Bulgaria -- which also turned out to be bogus. The reason Toronto is so PO'd is because it is suffering serious economic damage as a result of groundless mass hysteria.

When was the last time there were so many deaths from a flu outbreak? I'll admit I don't know -- but I bet it would be easy to track down, and I bet it wasn't that long ago. They don't get reported by the media any more.

I'll say it again -- WHO's stand on this is an outrageous over reaction.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
donder10
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sat Apr 26, 2003 5:48 am

The common flu is also a mass killer but on a far greater scale.The fact is that cases in Toronto are falling and are quite a way from their peak level.
 
slawko
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:11 am

Almost all deaths related to Sars in toronto were for people over the age of 80!!!!!!!! Infact it is much like a new form of the flu, though CNN and other half asses excuses for US media would have you think that it is infact a new AIDS....the mortality rate of the common flu is easily as high, and I can assure you the numbers are probalby much higher....The WHO acting on false and outdated information made an illinformed recommendation to the world, and the above mentioned so called media only further missinformed the world. On socalled reporter from fox stated that Toronto is a virtual ghost town...LOL I'd like here to go stand in the middle of the 401 right now and report that same information....The fact is that the media needs something new to report on now that the "war" is old news, and the worst of the US media like Fox and CNN are jumping on any bandwagon that they can find....Sars and a Murder Case in california being the newest focus points...I think that BA" decision to move its crew layovers is hasty and based on false information, It will end up costing them money in the long run.....We've gone over a week without any new cases and in a few more days we should be in the clear...I wonder how well other cities would have handled the situation, something tells me it would not have been quite as well as TO did...
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
777236ER
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:17 am

The OVERREACTION?!!?

The flu epidemic in 1918 killed MILLIONS. The mortality rate was 3%.

The problem is they're both contageous. The WHO estimates 1 billion people could be infected by the end of the year if we're unlucky. A 3% mortality rate may seem small, but that's 30,000,000 people dead. 30 million people dead. If it gets to Africa, nearly everyone with HIV will drop dead, that alone will push the mortality rate up higher.

When economies crash and burn and when your grandparents and kids are dying of this disease, maybe you'll still think the WHO are overreacting.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
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yyz717
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:22 am

The OVERREACTION?!!?

Sigh. Yes. Too much over-reaction.

The number of new cases is dropping. The former Chief Medical Officer for Toronto estimated the infection rate peaked 3 weeks ago & is now clearly in decline.

Everyone needs to chillllllllllllllll.




I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
777236ER
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:27 am

The number of new cases is dropping. The former Chief Medical Officer for Toronto estimated the infection rate peaked 3 weeks ago & is now clearly in decline.

Everyone needs to chillllllllllllllll.


Hopefully in decline thanks to careful containment by the WHO and other authorities. Given time and fredom, this kind of pathogen could eventually infect millions. It IS a threat.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Arrow
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:30 am

"When economies crash and burn and when your grandparents and kids are dying of this disease, maybe you'll still think the WHO are overreacting."

Toronto's economy is crashing and burning right now -- mostly because of WHO's ill-advised decision to issue a totally unwarranted travel advisory. Statistics for various flu epidemics show a fatality rate almost as bad as the SARS rate -- yet WHO doesn't take this kind of action every time there's a flu outbreak. Toronto is successfuly controlling SARS. Has any jurisdiction ever successfully controlled a flu outbreak?

You are using a legitimate need to carefully control this disease on a global scale to justify singling out Toronto, despite the fact that health authorities have now contained it. Heads ought to roll at WHO.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
777236ER
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:50 am

Toronto's economy is crashing and burning right now -- mostly because of WHO's ill-advised decision to issue a totally unwarranted travel advisory. Statistics for various flu epidemics show a fatality rate almost as bad as the SARS rate -- yet WHO doesn't take this kind of action every time there's a flu outbreak. Toronto is successfuly controlling SARS. Has any jurisdiction ever successfully controlled a flu outbreak?

There's a difference between a localised flu outbreak, that can be contained and vaccinated against and a highly contageous virus that can't be vaccinated against and mutates every few weeks.

If you think Toronto's economy is bad now, how do you think Canada will be when all of its population has SARS?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
chiawei
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sat Apr 26, 2003 9:13 am

No one is over reacting to SARS.

SARS is not a version of common cold. What no one dare to tell you that this might be caused by China's biological weapon program that went wrong. The virus is a genetic combination of measles and mumps. Yahoo chinese even reported that US official can't dismiss that SARS was genetically engineered. This would also explain why china was so eager to cover this thing up. Do you think country like china, who tends to down play everything, would actually say that 4,000 are quarantine, if everything is alright?

Chinese official knows something that we don't and is not telling the truth.

Just because Toronto median age of death is 72, does not mean there are no death for healthy adults. HKG already has several case that person in 30's dies from SARS.

SARS is very contageous and its unseen before. Look at HKG, taiwan, and china where hospital are being locked down due to SARS.

Let me give you one more example. A taiwanese engineer went to China and come back with SARS. And infected all of his family member, and about 80% of coworker that worked on his floor. When did you see a such a high infection rate. I don't recall any flu that would infect 70~80% of people that come in contact with cold/flu viruses.
 
slawko
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:06 am

Granted but I would not compare the healthcare system of China or even Taiwan with that of Canada....You can apply your chinese example to the Toronto case, where one elderly lady who went to Hong Kong got infected, the then came home infected her son, and grandson, and one other family member...she later died, when her family went to the hospital they infected a few other people, once the doctors figured out what it was that they had the hospitals began to quarantine, and restrict hospitals and as such there have only been 100 or so cases...Which goes a long way to showing how well the system did work...If SARS is a weapon gone wrong it isnt a very good one...the entire geneome was decoded withing a few weeks by Canadian doctors, and a little while later by US and European ones...
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
docpepz
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:38 am

I was having an debate yesterday over this. I too said that the mortality rate is really low and that every year 250 000 people die from the common flu.

However my friend made a very good point. With SARS we're talking about a controlled environment. Everyone's taking all the necessary precautions, wearing masks, gloves and quarantining hundreds of people. EVEN THEN, the mortality rate is still 5%.

For the common flu, we don't quarantine people etc. It's uncontrolled.

Therefore, the mortality rate for SARS is low BECAUSE we're taking precautions. Can you imagine what it'd be like if we didn't take precautions?

Any flaw with that argument?
 
Cessnapimp
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:38 am

If you think Toronto's economy is bad now, how do you think Canada will be when all of its population has SARS?

Joke's on you buddy! The economy won't matter by then because we'll all be dead! Hahaha!

C'mon, I know you live by this "culture of fear" thing, but there's no need for alarmist comments like that one.
 
speedbirdyvr
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sat Apr 26, 2003 12:29 pm

"Point being is that the elderly are usually more likely to be killed by any common disease"

Hahaa.....maybe BA has old, geriatric FA's!!!
 
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yyz717
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sat Apr 26, 2003 12:31 pm

Hahaa.....maybe BA has old, geriatric FA's!!!

Well, we know AC does.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Soku39
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sat Apr 26, 2003 12:44 pm

DoorsToManual refering to reply 10, there is no virus that has a cure. No matter what virulence the virus has.
The Ohio Player
 
slawko
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:27 pm

I'm curious...Do BA crews still overnight in Hong Kong, and Singapore??? If so WHY??? The situation is much much worse over there...
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
MAH4546
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:44 pm

I'm curious...Do BA crews still overnight in Hong Kong, and Singapore??? If so WHY??? The situation is much much worse over there...

Singapore yes, I think so, but Hong Kong flights now stop in Bangkok.
a.
 
Canadian747
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:49 pm

I must agree the SARS thing has gotten out of hand... And the City of Montreal is a Neat place to visit and have fun while on layover to all BA crews having to overnight in Montreal have fun and do not drink to much cause Montreal has I think the best night life in Canada and the people are awsome.

Canadian747
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sun Apr 27, 2003 12:37 am

"And the City of Montreal is a Neat place to visit and have fun while on layover to all BA crews having to overnight in Montreal have fun and do not drink to much cause Montreal has I think the best night life in Canada and the people are awsome."

-Dont tell Neil this.. he'll argue with you.

Mark
 
slawko
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sun Apr 27, 2003 2:53 am

No one has argued that Montreal isnt a "neat" place....just not economically viable with respect to the kind of routes that some of you guys want to see flown from there...  Smile  Smile  Smile
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
bmacleod
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sun Apr 27, 2003 3:06 am

777236ER,

I'm a Canadian currently living in the U.S. Are you saying Canadians even living outside of Canada are going to get SARS?
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
wirraway
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RE: BA Crew No Longer Stays In Toronto Due To Sars

Sun Apr 27, 2003 3:43 pm

Regarding the motality rate:

"Officials in the former British colony of Hong Kong -- the hardest-hit area along with China -- on Thursday revised the death rate from SARS to 7.2 percent from 5 percent."

"Some experts say it could rise higher because the rate is calculated by including those patients that are still in hospital and may yet still die."

"Beyond Hong Kong, officials have been unable to explain why the global mortality rate has crept up to 5.9 percent from less than 4 percent three weeks ago."

Source:CNN http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/04/24/sars.death/index.html







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