lumumba
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SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Fri Apr 25, 2003 4:00 pm

I have to fly from Brussels to Singapoor in June.
So i called to make a resevation and asked for the direct flight.
They told my there are not flying to Bru anymore and there are clossing to office also?
VERY SAD.
After 25 years of SQ in Brussels.
Regards
Patrice
 
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Fri Apr 25, 2003 4:02 pm

Still nothing official...

I'm hoping the world recovers from SARS soon, and that BRU will stay opened...

Regards
Frederic
 
gerardo
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Fri Apr 25, 2003 5:09 pm

The airline industry is really in the worst possible status at the moment. Fuel price rising, the Iraq-war and now SARS. Who would have guessed a few weeks ago, that SARS would probably have the higher impact on the aviation industry, than that damned war on Iraq??

Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
Ex_SQer
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Fri Apr 25, 2003 5:15 pm

SARS is only the nail in the coffin. BRU has never been profitable, and things have only gotten worse in the past few years. A high percentage of SIA's BRU passenger traffic went to Indonesia, and the route has suffered badly ever since the problems in Indonesia began in 1997.
 
gerardo
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:03 pm

Why is there such a strong link from BRU to Indonesia? That's new to me.

Regards
Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
Demoose
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:22 pm

The SQ flights to BRU used to continue onto MAN up until April with 744's. With MAN now being served non-stop with 772's I guess loads on the SIN-BRU sector have dropped more than they expected due to SARS and the war. All of SQ's flights are suffering, I guess they're going to cut the ones which are worst affected.

Mark
Take a ride...fly across the sky
 
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:40 pm

With MAN now being served non-stop with 772's I guess loads on the SIN-BRU sector have dropped more than they expected due to SARS and the war.

Note that the flight, after arriving from BRU, still proceeds to MAN. The B772's to MAN are additional flights.

Regards
Frederic
 
Demoose
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:54 pm

Ah, yes I wasn't too sure. If SQ drop BRU i take it that MAN would consequently be reduced to 4 x weekly 777 service?
Take a ride...fly across the sky
 
744rules
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Fri Apr 25, 2003 11:14 pm

@demoose
correct. Man service is reduced to 4.

all sia staff got the official news that bru is closing down(pax services only). Maybe some staff will go to SQC(Singapore Airlines Cargo), which is another company. Bru will go up to 12 cgo flts a week
 
StarFlyer
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Fri Apr 25, 2003 11:45 pm

SIA is also cutting flights to JFK. Posted that here a couple of days ago, but nobody seemed to care.
Yours truly - StarFlyer
 
docpepz
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sat Apr 26, 2003 12:18 am

THey cut flights to JFK about a month ago to thrice weekly. It'll go back to daily once demand springs back to normal levels.

However they CUT Brussels off their network and that's quite significant.
 
Rotate
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sat Apr 26, 2003 12:25 am

srry guys, but this SARS discussion is so ridicilous, 4500 people out of x mln have it, and only 10% are dying of it ..... , its again a story , where people are getting panic without any reason ....

cheers robin
ABC
 
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Flying Belgian
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sat Apr 26, 2003 1:27 am

SIA used to be the main carrier with which many Belgian Tour-Operators worked. So many of them were routing their clients to Bali with SQ via SIN instead of MH or TG who both dropped their direct BRU services a few years ago.

Very sad news indeed if it was to be confirmed... but the consequences of many factors. SARS, recent war in IRAQ, Bali bombing, introduction of the non-stop MAN-SIN service.
A friend of mine told me that the BRU SIA station manager tries to persuade SQ to continue to operate to BRU via ZRH or CDG.

What surprises me most is the lack of persusion from BIAC which lost many good carriers recently and never promptly reacted...


FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
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Flying Belgian
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sat Apr 26, 2003 1:29 am

@ Rotate:

I do agree 100 % with what you said...
If you give me a ticket to visit Shangai or Toronto, I go there when you want.


FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
airDD
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sat Apr 26, 2003 1:46 am



So, no more direct service from BRU to Asia ?


BRU is become the biggest regional airport in the world  Sad


airDD
 
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sat Apr 26, 2003 3:29 am

Demoose/744Rules: My suspicion is that MAN will not be dropped to 4x/weekly. MAN may not be very profitable, but it is strategically important. SIA wants 5th freedom rights between LHR and the US, and their tactic is to use up every available traffic right and landing slot in order to force the Brits back to the negotiating table. SIA is prepared to lose money on MAN until it gets the rights that it wants.

 
David_itl
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sat Apr 26, 2003 3:35 am


I maybe wrong but I'm sure SQ came out around 1997 or 1998 stating that MAN was finally making a profit; I presume it's still making a little money for them. SQ, MAS and now EK are touting one-stop services to Australia so expect further yield reductions!

David
 
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:37 am

So there will be no more passenger 747 coming to BRU. Singapore is for years the only airline that flies passenger 747's to BRU, until now. Only 747 Freighters will be seen in BRU from three airlines: Singapore Cargo, Air Hong Kong and Saudia Cargo.
Can you name all the airlines that have ever flown passenger 747's to BRU, as far as I can remember the following have done so:
American (yes they did!)
People Express (my father used to fly with them a lot)
Thai
Singapore
There may be others but these four are the ones I remember. Yes I know Sabena has flown the 747 for a long time, of course I know, I was talking about foreign carriers. Not long ago, there were KLM 747's in BRU but they were there only because they were diverted.

That's sad. It seems like BRU, the so called capital of Europe, has no future in the long haul intercontinental market. BRU is just a regional airport compared to CDG, LHR, AMS and FRA. What do we see the most in BRU: Virgin 737's and SNBA Avro's. Nevertheless, it is still a pleasure to go spotting in BRU.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium

Ben Soriano
 
glider
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:00 am

Doesn't MS sometimes fly to BRU with a 743? Thought so... If so, you can add them to your list.
Rgds
 
dutchjet
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:04 am

BRU is seeing fewer and fewer long-haul flights........when SN closed down and SN Brussels went with a business plan that focused only on regional flights, I thought that other international carriers would fill the void left by Sabena and open up new routes to BRU. In reality, the opposite has happened, Thai and now Singapore have dropped their direct pax flights to the Far East, ANA did not reopen the Tokyo route that they code-shared with SN, US pulled out after about one year, AA trimmed services and remains with only one flight to ORD which does not even operate daily during certain times of the year, etc, etc. VG Airlines was a poorly planned venture. The only good news is that the flights to Africa operated by SN Brussels/Birdy seem to be doing OK and that CO, which began service to BRU in 1999 (I think) has remained and their EWR flight does OK with the 762 (757s operated the service for a while), and very, very well with premium pax (the 25 seats in BusinessFirst on the 762 are completely filled almost daily). Is BRU simply overlooked since its in the "shadow" of FRA and AMS, or is there another reason for its problems?

DUS is another "overlooked" airport in my opinion - in recent years, much of the long haul traffic in and out of DUS has been dropped as LH has more and more concentrated on its FRA and MUC hubs. The same can be said about GVA - at a certain point, Swissair (and now Swiss) focused on ZRH. Any other similiar situations world wide?
 
United Airline
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:34 am

Will SQ resume service between ORD and AMS? Also HKG-LAS?
 
Ex_SQer
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sat Apr 26, 2003 9:38 am

United Airline - outlook isn't good.

David_itl:In 1997/98 MAN had two flights via BOM and three via AMS. The BOM flights were profitable, the AMS flights were not.
 
SQ772
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:29 am

I mentioned in one of my previous post that SQ is planning to shut down (permanently) the following stations...LAS, ORD, BRU, MRU, KHH, HIJ

One down...5 more to go (although I am now pretty sure ORD is gone as well)
There's always a better way to fly...
 
Established02
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sat Apr 26, 2003 2:52 pm

> Bru will go up to 12 cgo flts a week

744rules, what positive elements at BRU have inspired SQ to increase their cargo operations here?
BIAC incentives, central location, cooperation with some partners,...?

> Only 747 Freighters will be seen in BRU from three airlines

Ben, you omitted the regular cargo flights of Asiana, Korean Air and Hydro Air Cargo, thus making it at least six cargo airlines that currently operate the 747 to BRU.

> Can you name all the airlines that have ever flown passenger 747's to BRU

I sure would love to see some more pictures from the (short) time periods when also Air Zaire, Pan Am, Metro, Tower Air (JFK-BRU-TLV), Flying Tigers, TWA, Highland Express, Royal Jordanian, Garuda, Air Lanka, El Al, Malaysian Airline System, South African Airways and Lufthansa (DHL) flew their 747's into BRU.

I hope that more and more spotters will kindly open up their drawers to scan and post the unique pictures of BRU operations during the past few decades. Thank you very much.

 
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Flying Belgian
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sat Apr 26, 2003 5:43 pm

Quite a good analysis DUTCHJET.

BRU apt suffers also according to me of its lack of HST (High Speed Train) link to other major cities of the region.
Recently I flew into CDG and I was amazed to see how efficient was the HST line between CDG and Brussels downtown. In a way, it's quite the same problem with DUS.
I can only agree with ex-BIAC CEO P.Klees who always pointed out this big hole in the BRU development outlook if it ever wanted to compete with AMS, CDG, and even FRA.

Now the only thing we can hope it that the intercontinental market bounces back again...


F.B
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
744rules
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:07 pm

FB

Are you sure a high speed train link to ams, fra, dus,... is such a good idea ?

AF stopped its flights cdg-bru and book their pax on this train. SIA pax ex bru should go thru FRA. Why should sia restart bru if their pax can use this same HST to fra, or ams, or ....?

My point is that this HST can possibly have the opposite effect, and in stead of adding traffic it could take away traffic.
 
airmale
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sat Apr 26, 2003 9:28 pm

So Biman Bangaldesh is the only non-Arab Asian airline operating passenger services to Brussels.
.....up there with the best!
 
manni
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sat Apr 26, 2003 10:13 pm

coincidentally today there was a Korean Air aircraft coming from Seoul scheduled to arrive at BRU at 11.25AM. The aircraft arrived at 11.19AM. Since cargo flights are normally not listed on the arrival boards I assume it was a passenger flight. Anyone has more info on this?
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
Sabena 690
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sat Apr 26, 2003 10:15 pm

@Airmale,

I picked up the rumour that also BG wants to leave.
BRU generates almost no passengers. They are also getting difficulties with their DC10's (noise regulations).

The only reason why they are still here, is for the excellent maintenance work Sabena Technics does to their DC10's...

Anyway, they have low prices to JFK... (around €299 I believe). Excellent opportunity to fly the DC10!

Regards
Frederic
 
Shilla
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sun Apr 27, 2003 12:03 am

@Flying Belgian

DUS has a HST connection to major cities - the ICE´s are operating to Berlin, Frankfurt etc., so that´s not a problem there.
The new ICE station at CGN will follow soon.

@Sabena 690

Biman wants to leave ? Haven´t heard of that rumor yet. To my mind, linking DAC with JFK via BRU is quite an interesting route and I´m sure the load factor is still high (will check by myself in June). Brussels is an important european city...why do most of the carries focus on AMS instead ?
I hope that Sabena Technics will continue with their maintenance work on those beautiful DC10´s - would be too sad to see them leaving after all. What would be the biggest passenger aircraft operating from BRU then ? A 767 ?


[Edited 2003-04-26 17:05:36]
 
glider
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sun Apr 27, 2003 12:08 am

Biggest pax aircraft here must be MS B772 & B743, I think. Am I right?
 
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Flying Belgian
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sun Apr 27, 2003 12:19 am

... What a sad discussion !!! I'm getting depressive !!!


 Sad  Sad


FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
Established02
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sun Apr 27, 2003 1:06 am

> today there was a Korean Air aircraft coming from Seoul scheduled to arrive
> at BRU at 11.25AM. The aircraft arrived at 11.19AM.
> I assume it was a passenger flight. Anyone has more info on this?

Manni, I can not exclude the possibility of a KE pax aircraft today.
However, I did see a KE B744F at Brucargo, which took off at about 15:00.


 
Established02
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sun Apr 27, 2003 1:45 am

> Can you name all the airlines that have ever flown passenger 747's to BRU

A friendly fellow BRU spotter mailed me the following:

Other regular B747 operators to BRU throughout the past few decades include:
TWA with B747sp
Braniff 1980-1981
Air National 1983
World Airways 1973-74-75
Seaboard World until 1979
Nationair Canada until 1993
Evergreen (often operating for Saudia)
Cameroon Airlines
Air Mauritius with B747sp
During the first Gulf War: United Airlines and America West

 
manni
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sun Apr 27, 2003 3:45 am

Thank you Established02.
Normaly the cargo aircraft are not listed on the arrivals info. Do you know wether there are any KE cargo aircraft flying directly from ICN? One of the stops on route to BRU is Tashkent but todays aircraft came straight from ICN.
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Established02
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sun Apr 27, 2003 4:55 am

> the excellent maintenance work Sabena Technics does to their DC10's...

Sabena690, what kind of maintenance does SN Technics offer to Biman?
BG's DC10's are spending little time on the ground at BRU.


> Do you know wether there are any KE cargo aircraft flying directly from ICN?

According to the BIAC schedules, KE523/524 is making a stop in Tashkent,
while KE251 is making a stop in both ANC and JFK.

Actually, I don't know how much this BIAC schedule is really up to date.
I would think that KE operates more than just 2 weekly cargo flights to BRU.

Cargo flights from Brussels (BRU) to SEOUL INCHEON INT'L (ICN)
Flightnumber Days Dep. Arr. Type Validity
KE524 -2----- 09:25 05:15 74F 0104-2110
KE524 1------ 09:25 06:25 74F 3103-2310

Cargo flights from SEOUL INCHEON INT'L (ICN) to Brussels (BRU)
Flightnumber Days Dep. Arr. Type Validity
KE251 1------ 11:35 06:25 74F 0104-2110
KE523 ------7 22:10 06:25 74F 3103-2310



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Daenen Jos


I didn't know that KE used to fly a B742 to BRU (or was this a one time occasion?). Unfortunately the A.net database doesn't show any pictures from the times that KE came to BRU with their B743F.

 
Sabena 690
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sun Apr 27, 2003 5:05 am

Hi Edwin,

Let's say they see SN Technics as some kind of problem solver. Everytime they have problems with their DC10, SN Technics solves it in a good and fast way (it is really a good company, something to be proud on!).

SN Technics has a lot of experience, also because Sabena flew quite some years the DC10.

Now I am thinking of this, do you remember the documentary 'het leven zoals het is'? There BG also had a problem on their DC10. SN Technics solved it in a fast and safe way, and you heard the crew talking about 'great SN Technics',...

Regards
Frederic
 
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Sun Apr 27, 2003 7:28 am

Established02, thanks for your info. I saw this morning a Korean Air 747F parking at the Cargo facility in Melsbroek. It seems like all 747 Freighters in BRU are coming from the East and flying overnight before landing in BRU the next morning.

You're right about Sabena Technics, they've always been outstanding in maintaining aircraft.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium
Ben Soriano
 
lumumba
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Mon May 05, 2003 8:47 pm

Singapour is not on the timetable of Brusselsairport anymore?
regards
Patrice
 
tsentsan
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Mon May 05, 2003 9:28 pm

Interesting way of spelling Singapore Big grin
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SQ772
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Mon May 05, 2003 11:10 pm

The French spell it Singapour, the Germans spell it Singapur. Both are not wrong.
There's always a better way to fly...
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: SQ Stops BRU Flight's

Tue May 06, 2003 12:56 am

And we call it Singapura! Majulah ourselves!

Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.