Guest

Should YYZ/Canada Temporarily Ban Asian Flights?

Fri Apr 25, 2003 11:55 pm

This is a question many of us in the travel industry are asking one another, and have been for some time now. Many feel a ban should have been implemented a while back, especially on the YYZ-HKG-YYZ routes, even at the risk of lost revenue/business. Believe me, for travel industry professionals to support this, is something else! As of today, the "good" news, re SARS, is that it appears to be levelling off here in Toronto. Even though many here (including myself) do not feel for one moment it is (nor has it ever been) at a crisis level, we do realize that we're not out of the woods yet, so to speak. I feel more than positive this situation will be resolved, with many thanks and gratitude to our wonderful medical professionals here, who have been working round the clock to contain the situation.

There are some that may feel that if YYZ/Canada puts a temporary ban on Asian traffic at this point, it would be in effect somewhat like closing the barn door after the horse has got out. I personally don't agree with this, and on the one hand feel it would be effective re new cases here.

And FYI, both Air Canada and Cathay Pacific are reporting increasingly declining pax loads (average is 20%-30% load factors, and dropping) between YVR/YYZ and HKG, Singapore and Taipei. AC has stated it has already lost well over CAD$20,000,000.00 (and climbing daily) revenue on its Asian routes.

What do you think? Would a Canadian temporary ban on Asian (applicable destinations) be a benefit or a detriment? Effective? Needless over-reacting?



 
N754PR
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RE: Should YYZ/Canada Temporarily Ban Asian Flights?

Sat Apr 26, 2003 12:01 am

Ban asian flights?

So if I go from Hong Kong - London - Vancouver its ok.
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
docpepz
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RE: Should YYZ/Canada Temporarily Ban Asian Flights?

Sat Apr 26, 2003 12:13 am

Shouldn't other countries then ban Canadian flights as well? After all the World Health Organisation did ask travellers to postpone non essential travel to Toronto. So far, Toronto, Beijing, Shanxi Province, Guangdong and Hong Kong are on that list. The rest of Asia is not.

Should we ban flights from Beijing and Hong Kong to everywhere in the world, then?



 
Guest

RE: Should YYZ/Canada Temporarily Ban Asian Flights?

Sat Apr 26, 2003 12:16 am

The question posed is whether or not a TEMPORARY ban should place on
Canadian-Asian traffic. And from what I have heard through an aquaintance who is a physician, this question was seriously raised by the Ontario medical officers, some of who feel a ban is not necessary as HKG, BJS, SIN (and other Asian airports) now have in place stringent checks (the Ontario medical officers feel somewhat confident in them) on all outbound pax and crews to Canada (and of course all other destinations worldwide).

Part of me feels a ban is absolutely unwarranted, and yet.....we're seeing the
rising numbers daily in HKG and other Asian centres, and while the situation in YYZ is NOT a crisis by any means (let me make that perfectly clear) I'd just like to see it stay that way.
 
Guest

RE: Should YYZ/Canada Temporarily Ban Asian Flights?

Sat Apr 26, 2003 12:21 am

"Shouldn't other countries then ban Canadian flights as well?"

Absolutely not, as, irregardless of the WHO designation, both the Ontario medical officers and the CDC (Centre for disease control) in Atlanta both
have stated the YYZ/situation is well under control and far from being a
crisis; both groups also officially oppose the WHO ruling on YYZ.

Look, as I stated, on one hand I fully realize what repercussions an Asian ban would represent, and perhaps it truly is not feasable in the slightest. I'm merely posing a question here.
 
flyyul
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RE: Should YYZ/Canada Temporarily Ban Asian Flights?

Sat Apr 26, 2003 12:26 am

AC has already cut YYZ-NRT.. and there are no YYZ-HKG AC flights.

Mark
 
Guest

RE: Should YYZ/Canada Temporarily Ban Asian Flights?

Sat Apr 26, 2003 12:31 am

FLYYUL, AC has reduced YYZ-HKG from x2 daily to x5 weekly, as the loads
are horrific. I just re-checked this with our air department here.
 
Samurai 777
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RE: Should YYZ/Canada Temporarily Ban Asian Flights?

Sat Apr 26, 2003 12:36 am

Are any YVR-YYZ flights going to get axed? What about AC008, which is a continuation of HKG-YVR-YYZ using an A340-300, since I will be flying YVR-YYZ on it this July?
 
Guest

RE: Should YYZ/Canada Temporarily Ban Asian Flights?

Sat Apr 26, 2003 12:43 am

Taken from another thread:

"What I believe is that Beijing should have been more up front about the SARs situation which began in Guangzhou and Hong Kong. Also, it should have ordered all major Chinese airports closed and banned all international flights. True, this would have serious economic repercussions, but I believe this is what Europe or the US would have done if SARS had broken out first there. Not to mention it would have helped to contain the disease further. Unfortunately, it's saving face, which is a very integral part of many Asian cultures, including China, that's preventing the Chinese government from implementing such measures. You will have probably already noticed that all Chinese newspapers and TV media have probably been banned from even mentioning SARS."

Exactly. And it's precisely this that has me concerned.

 
flyyul
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RE: Should YYZ/Canada Temporarily Ban Asian Flights?

Sat Apr 26, 2003 12:58 am

Again there are no non-stops from Toronto to Hong Kong with Air Canada...

Cathay is a different story all together..

Mark
 
Guest

RE: Should YYZ/Canada Temporarily Ban Asian Flights?

Sat Apr 26, 2003 1:20 am

FLYYUL, perhaps I should clarify for you, as you seem to be hung up on the routing issue. AC operates x5 weekly YYZ-HKG via YVR flights, as per our
CRS. I never meant to imply the routing was non-stop. We're also hearing from our AC rep that the frequency will most probably drop to x3 flights per
week effective 01 May. Load factors are anywhere from 19%-30%. AC is
losing a fortune, to say the least.
 
H. Simpson
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RE: Should YYZ/Canada Temporarily Ban Asian Flights?

Sat Apr 26, 2003 1:28 am

That sounds more like discrimination than "disease control"  Angry
 
Guest

RE: Should YYZ/Canada Temporarily Ban Asian Flights?

Sat Apr 26, 2003 1:39 am

Discrimination? Hmmm, funny, that's exactly how Torontonians feel, what with the irresponsible and unfair WHO ruling on our fair (and most healthy) metropolis. And our Ontario medical officers have stated that, irregardless of the WHo designation, our city has not exported ONE case of SARS across our
borders.

As for Asia (applicable centres), the facts and figures speak for themselves.
Open the paper or go on-line.

 
captaingomes
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RE: Should YYZ/Canada Temporarily Ban Asian Flights?

Sat Apr 26, 2003 2:15 am

CanadianBoy, I believe that there were two cases of SARS being exported from Toronto, if my memory serves me correctly, one to the Philipines, the other to Alabama or something like that. Of course NAFTA doesn't help this situation, maybe the U.S. should put some duty just like our lumber.  Big grin

In all seriousness, the fact that two cases were exported I think played a role in the WHO decision.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
docpepz
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RE: Should YYZ/Canada Temporarily Ban Asian Flights?

Sat Apr 26, 2003 2:21 am

Yup, A filipino nurse brought SARS back to her village in the philippines and her father has died from SARS.

Which other Asian centres? I believe only China (including Hong Kong) has exported SARS cases. Other countries have successfully contained the disease within their borders.

It all started when a Chinese doctor sneezed in the lift of his Hong Kong Hotel, spreading the disease to a Vietnamese, 3 Singaporeans and a Canadian who brought it back to their respective countries.

Anyway, Hong Kong has always been a re-exporter of mainland Chinese products.

The discrimination against Asians is uncalled for and unwarranted. I read stories on how Chinatowns in North America are being shunned and Asian people are viewed with suspicion. While I think it's largely blown out of proportion by the media, it's sad that this has come down to being an "Asian" thing.

SARS knows no racial boundries and can affect anyone.
 
Guest

RE: Should YYZ/Canada Temporarily Ban Asian Flights?

Sat Apr 26, 2003 2:41 am

Captaingomes, then I'm confused (re exported cases) as Dr. Basrur has stated no cases were exported. If I'm incorrect, than I stand corrected on that point.

*********************************************************

And for the record, I do not have a racist bone in my body. I'm now regretting even posting this question, as I by no means meant any disrespect towards any member of the Asian community. I only meant (and perhaps my
reasoning is way off the mark) that if flights were curtailed from Asia, where
in fact SARS originated, perhaps, perhaps YYZ could have, or can, resolve the situation sooner. Mind you, the cat is out of the bag here, per se, so a ban perhaps would not make any difference anyhow. I can understand how my question was perhaps misinterpreted by some, and for that I apologize. Sadly, here in YYZ, it is largely the Asian community themselves who are boycotting the Asian restaurants and businesses, who are hurting very very
badly over this, and I feel for them.

Oooookay, well, there's my stupid question posted for today!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Perhaps I should stop while I'm (barely) ahead, and have a double latte with chocolate.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Should YYZ/Canada Temporarily Ban Asian Flights?

Sat Apr 26, 2003 4:37 am

I don't think any flights to/from HKG should be banned. My understanding is that HKG is handling the SARS outbreak well. The problem is China which, as a 3rd world country, cannot afford to contain the disease the way that YYZ, SIN and HKG can. Hence, I can see the need to cut all flights to/from China only.

Once this is over, Canada and others should rake China over the coals for covering up this infection. China has done much damage to Canada's economy due to their attempt to hide this infection. Canada should consider a recall of the embassador to China until this is over. China has been irresponsible in their handling of this crisis.


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
docpepz
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RE: Should YYZ/Canada Temporarily Ban Asian Flights?

Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:32 am

Oh CanadianBoy.... The Asian thing was just a by the way thing! hehe. The media is overwhelming me with SARS news so it's pissing me off!

I hope you enjoyed your double latte with chocolate. I'm enjoying some Taiwanese glutinous rice now... yummy. And that gave me an idea... I shall make a double latte on the coffee machine right now! =)

Yes. Compensation from the Chinese government.... While I would like that to be a reality, it's unlikely it'll happen. In a previous post of mine, I likened the Chinese government to Hussein's government. Except instead of the UN inspectors we have WHO inspectors. Instead of WMDs it's a strange virus. The moving of patients around, hiding facts, letting the WHO see only what they want them to see... Familiar? Is our fav information minister in Beijing now, giving them ideas on how to run the country?

Anyway at this point in time, I would like China to just focus on containing the virus within their own borders, then tackling it in the big cities and provinces. At the very least, they should compensate Hong Kong, which is after all, a city within the People's Republic of China.

Sadly, Hong Kong has still not been able to contain the virus. I hope they do so soon. The number of new cases a day is still 20 to 30 and I think they've given up contact tracing.