FrankyA340
Topic Author
Posts: 41
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Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 5:04 am

This guy is an unbelievable *hole! Now he wants $1.7B in concessions from the unions and is threatening the GTAA by making YUL an alternate hub. Excuse me? Good luck.

Please join your buddy and mentor Don Carty and take a flying leap--hopefully at 35,000 feet.
 
slawko
Posts: 3742
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 5:13 am

Where is this GTAA threat that you speak of??? Has he made a public statement???

Did you think that he could keep paying his employees the wages that they get, working the hours that they do and still come out of Bankruptcy protection??? Is he supposed to rubb some magic lamp and get a few billion dollars to save the company??? Of course he is going to ask for concessions....what did you expect???

When you have people who work half the month, get 6 weeks vacation, and make 25, 26, or 30 bucks an hour at a job that people at other companies get 8 bucks an hour you have a lot of fat that you can cut...Im tired of people at Air Canada feeling that they are entitled to limited hours lots of time off and big money...and Im not even talking about Pilots here...the above description was a senior RAMP position!!!!!! This is insane!!! Milton may have made a mess in the last 4 years, but thats not when AC's problems began....the crown coporation attitude has to go, and it has to go fast...The company needs to cut it work force in HALF at least....Management and all other employees included...
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
flyyul
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RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 5:42 am

So somebody should cough on Uncle Milty because he is threathening to make Montreal an alternate hub?

 
slawko
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RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 5:44 am

Well Mark, I have to say I would agree with that  Big grin HEHEHEHE
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
flyyul
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Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 5:49 am

It was always AC's strategy to use Montreal as a minor alternate "Munich of Canada" type hub.

This was realized before SARS hit Torotno, with AC announcing BEY/FCO/MUC.

Simply put there are only a handful of destinations that Air Canada could now serve from YYZ. Perhaps PDX/SLC/HKG (in the medium-term future)/ICN/BOM/DEL... every other city has been covered, and extensively might I add...

From Montreal, there are still many destinations to be looked at such as MSY/MXP/MAD/BRU/TUN/TLV/DEN/SEA/DTW/YEG/YYT/YXU etc that Air Canada could cover from Montreal to complement YYZ.

There is no denying that YYZ will and should remain the main focus point of Air Canada's operations, but an alternate minor hub in Montreal is good practice, and will ensure that they can maximize yields in both cities, both of which are enjoying very strong economic growth at the present time.

Mark
 
ramprat
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2000 11:38 am

RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 5:49 am

Slawko,

What you are comparing in saying one employee at another company makes $8 while the Air Canada guy makes $25 is true, but only partially. The person who makes $8 at company X is just starting out at that company, while the Air Canada employee is obviously a long timer and a lead on the ramp, not just a rampie. What you neglected to mention is that the top rate at company X is about $19/hour for a rampie, who is required to know alot less than an Air Canada rampie. Ask any of them how to shut down the APU in case of an APU fire, bet you get blank stares. One of many examples. If you were to make a fair comparison, take the top rate company X regular rampie, and compare him to the Air Canada rampie, you have a difference of about $3/hour. Not a huge difference. And as for the only working half a month, not sure what it is in YYZ, but here in YYC we all work 6 on, 3 off, no weekends or holidays either. And should you be fortunate enough to work a holiday, there is no, and i repeat, NO, Stat holiday pay. No double time or time and a half, just a regular day. And before you question how i know this, i worked for Hudson General before i got hired at Air Canada. As for the other departments, i cant speak, but thats the facts for the ramp.
 
Cessnapimp
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RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 5:56 am

I have a hard time believing the CEO (himself!!?) is asking 1.7B in concessions today while the board of directors were talking about 770mil/ a year just yesterday in their meeting with union officials. Link to the story: http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/05/01/aircanada_030501 The requirements changed by a billion dollars overnight? This is really hard to believe.
 
FrankyA340
Topic Author
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2000 11:34 am

RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 5:57 am

If the model of a full service airline is broken, then why do you take over Canadian, take on more nimble, low cost structure competitors at suicide prices, alienate your main distribution source (travel agents), etc. AC needed vision to lead it forward. They had a market unto themselves and blew it. I don't mean to oversimplify the situation and determinants of their demise, but bad management leading to cantakerous management-employee relationships (which spilled over to customer service) is I feel to blame as much as external market conditions. Milton should admit his failure and resign.
 
Qb001
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RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 5:58 am

I have to agree with some of the comments made here, that Robert Milton's ability to run AC is questionable. I understand that US, UA or AA are going through rough times, since there is a lot of good competition on the American market. But in Canada, AC enjoys a market share of more than 75%. How much of a monopoly does this guy need to run a successful airlines ?

I think Milton blew it and should step down.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
Cessnapimp
Posts: 1245
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RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 6:02 am

... ah yes, which reminds me...

what do some of you think of the surprise bid by MBNA to takeover the Aerogold credit card buisness. The heck if I'm financially inclined to even voice an opinion on that one. Anyone? Lester B. Pearson MD-95, I'm looking in your direction... Big grin
 
zrs70
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RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 6:06 am

I think this thread title is distgusting and childish.
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
FrankyA340
Topic Author
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2000 11:34 am

RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 6:12 am

Aeroplan is going to become a bidding war. MBNA is looking to advance the significant inroads its made in Canada (and has a larger market cap than CIBC, so they got the bucks), CIBC desperately needs to retain the Aerogold product and you'll probably see Onex come into the picture. Probably one of the only good news stories for AC over the past few weeks.

BTW, here's the story on the threat to GTAA from today's Star:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1051643352821&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 6:19 am

"Ask any of them how to shut down the APU in case of an APU fire, bet you get blank stares."

ummm ok, I was one of those $8/hour rampies and I was taught how to shut down an APU in case of fire in my first week of training.

I saw some pretty stupid shit from AC rampers too, the worst being one shoplifting Dragon Wing models from that Just Plane Fun store in the terminal.

There's good and bad on both sides.
 
ramprat
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2000 11:38 am

RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 6:40 am

VonRichtofen,

I wont disagree with you on the dumb stuff on both sides, not at all. My point was simply that we are required to know more stuff than was required at Hudson(now Globeground) I love my job, and would gladly take a paycut to keep us afloat. If someone could get rid of Mr Milton for us, it would be a great help. No one trusts that guy anymore. If he was gone, i think(and hope) that the unions would be a little easier to deal with, and things might get done a littel quicker. By the way, that AC guy who got caught shoplifting was probably an $8/hour guy, yes thats what we hire people at, and were there ever some characters we got for that wage. Proves the adage, you get what you pay for!
 
flyyul
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RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 6:45 am

In the Air Canada bag room in Montreal.

You honestly have people throwing darts at pictures of Milton, and memo's signed by Milton..

I agree with you ramprat when it comes to the AC staff not trusting Milty.

Mark
 
flyyul
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RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 7:01 am

Slawko...

This one is for you.

Remember just a few days back I told you that I was hearing this from a few AC employees.

You basically told me that it was bull and I was trying to poke fun at the YYZ situation.. well its leaked in the media... Im pretty credible overall Big grin

Best Regards,
Mark
 
slawko
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Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 7:02 am

Actually the e-bay guy was a senior guy on leave...
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
Samurai 777
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RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 7:09 am

Is it just me or is AC really jacking up its concession demands at an incredible rate? Last I heard, AC was asking for $650 million CDN - now it's $1.7 billion! Sounds pretty desperate.
 
slawko
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Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 7:13 am

I have yet to see it in the media but if you provide me with the links I will be respectfully humbled...  Big grin
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
Cessnapimp
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2001 11:46 am

RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 7:44 am

Ok, I got it FrankyA340,

The article says 1.17 billion, and takes into account the 770 million in labour cuts and 400 in benefits and pension cuts. thanks for the link Franky... very interesting article:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1051643352821&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154

RIP 747  Crying

Grégoire
 
slawko
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RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 7:49 am

OK well thats one source, but being the Toronto Star (AKA Pravda), and Ms. Susan Pig who doesnt know an airplane from a choo choo train and often gets her stories off of sites like this one, I will wait and see if any of the real papers have the same story tomorrow.... Thanks for the link Greg
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
Cessnapimp
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RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 8:04 am

Pigg... Pigg Slawko, not Pig...

A little respect man!  Laugh out loud CRJ 700s to YWG, 900s to YHZ and MD95s to YYT and YYC, is that what they're pondering right now?

How does one end a lease with a lessor. Surely there are penalties. On aircraft more than 18 months old? What the... bankruptcy courts are dumber than I thought. 18 months is brand new! What's going on?
 
slawko
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RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 8:26 am

Well if it means retiring some of the micro, mini, and pencil plastics then 18 months is very old...  Big grin

I like your Idea for the CRJ's/MD95's....I'll vote for that hehehe  Big grin
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
donder10
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RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 8:28 am

YUL-BRU?LOL!ORD-BRU isn't doing THAT well!
 
Qb001
Posts: 1923
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RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 8:42 am

Donder10,

You can't compare YUL-BRU to ORD-BRU. YUL and BRU serving two mainly francophone areas, there is a fairly amount of traffic between those two cities, if only for family and cultural reasons. It's as if you were saying that BOS-DUB shouldn't work, because, say, SFO-DUB isn't doing that well. There is always a context to take in account.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
CRJ 900
Posts: 541
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RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Pleas

Fri May 02, 2003 8:51 am

I'm all for the CRJs but we get them ALL including the 900 at Jazz. The 717 would be nice but mainline can have it, just so they don't feel left out and go stamping their feet in some typical ACPA hissy fit.
 
slawko
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Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 9:07 am

I agree with CRJ 900 the RJ fleet should be turned over to Jazz, and the Dash 8 fleet should be streamlined to include only one variant of the aircraft...the Jazz operation should be used to replace the domestic Zip/Tango services with a low cost alternative that really is Low Cost, in doing so you can offer service to smaller stations which could not support mainline or zip tango jet service, and compliment the mainline domestic service to the major Canadian cities...
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
FrankyA340
Topic Author
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2000 11:34 am

RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 11:10 am

I bet Mel would do a better job of running this airline....

I wonder what's going to happen with the A340-500. There have been some posts over its fate a few weeks ago, but I'm hoping it'll show its face at YYZ in the next month or so as planned.
 
flyyul
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Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 11:12 am

It wont..

YYZ-NRT was going to be the route... its cut indefinitely..

Ive heard that QATAR is interested in the AC A340-500's

Mark
 
slawko
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RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 11:49 am

QATAR??? Where did you hear that??? The only potential customers that I've heard about are Emirites, and South African...
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
AC320
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RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 12:00 pm

woohoo more traffic and hubbing at YUL! Should AC follow through with this idea, would the boost in service likely alter the expansion plans currently in place, in terms of size or time?
fuddle duddle
 
flyyul
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RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 1:22 pm

Hey Slawko,

There was this guy who was travelling with us to MSP, and he was the sked manager at Tango... anyway he was talking about the A340-500 as I was dealing with his complex ticket and he talked about how the A340-500 would soon belong to Qatar.

Mark
 
AC320
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RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 1:24 pm

Did he give any more details on that A345? Shame, I was really looking forward to that flying with AC.
fuddle duddle
 
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yyz717
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RE: Someone With Sars Cough On Robert Milton Please

Fri May 02, 2003 3:31 pm

From Montreal, there are still many destinations to be looked at such as MSY/MXP/MD), Spain">MAD/BRU/TUN/TLV/DEN/SEA/DTW/YEG/YYT/YXU etc that Air Canada could cover from Montreal to complement YYZ.

Most of these routes will never happen. YYZ does not need complementing with a small-ish YUL just 300mi away.

When T-new opens, AC will refocus eastern hubbing efforts on YYZ. Not to mention the continued strong economic growth that YYZ will enjoy.

Lester B. Pearson MD-95, I'm looking in your direction...

You talking about me Greg? lol. Well, I hope MNBA pulls the Aeroplan deal from CIBC. The CIBC Aerogold credit card provides about 25% of CIBC net profit.....this will really hurt CIBC if they lose it.


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.

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