United777
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Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Mon May 12, 2003 4:52 pm

Why do so many airlines want to fly into Baghdad so much. Is there really that big of a market into Baghdad or do you think it is just for publicity. Northwest Airlines, North American Airlines, British Airways, Virgin Atlantic Airways, Lufthansa Airlines, Emirate Airlines and Qatar Airways are asking for right to fly into Iraq. I could see why the the middle eastern airlines would want to fly into Baghdad but I don't see why European or North American airlines would want to so quickly. Will these airlines actually make a profit flying into Baghdad.

Also when these airlines are asking permission who are they asking since Iraqi does not yet have a aviation authority.
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Mon May 12, 2003 5:02 pm

My guess is that the airlines are betting on a lot of business travel to Baghdad, as companies assist in the rebuilding of the infrastructure there. I don't know the answer to your second question.

LoneStarMike

 
pacificjourney
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Mon May 12, 2003 5:08 pm

Looking at the map wouldn't Bagdhad have terrific transit/hub possiblities ?
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United777
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Mon May 12, 2003 5:17 pm

Pacificjourney - That is a good question and heck yea Baghdad would be a good transit/hub for any airline. Baghdad has always been called the center of the crossroads between Europe, Asia and Africa. It is right in the middle. It is kinda the reason why Iraq or Baghdad use to be such a rich and wealthy city. It is sad to see Iraq during Saddams regime because it could have such a wealthy and modern country. Anyway I think Iraqi Airways has the perfect place (Baghdad) to make a world hub in the future.
 
AroundTheWorld
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Mon May 12, 2003 5:47 pm

Personally I see it as a huge untapped market. Basically imagine a city the size of LA with no air service. Yea they may loose a bit at first...but once business travel for a newly established economy kicks in and god knows there will be plenty of tourist wanting to look around (I know I'd love to be one of the first to fly in)....watch out...that place is a goldmine waiting to happen.
 
sk
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Mon May 12, 2003 7:32 pm

As far as I know - Germany has a strong commercial connection to Iraq because of the medical and pharmaceutical deliveries and the human aid goods. A lot of companies had contracts before the war and I would not be surprised that this will be the same with the new leaders in Iraq.

Don't forget that Iraq is the 2nd largest oil producing country in the world. So there is a lot of room for good business.
 
hkg82
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Mon May 12, 2003 7:43 pm

Yeah, and with the aviation industry in the sorry state it is today, airlines will want access to a lucrative & fast-growing market.

Iraq is much like the China of the Middle East in terms of business opportunities.

Hkg82.
 
carduelis
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Mon May 12, 2003 9:29 pm

British Airways do actually have rights to fly from LON to BGW.

BA flew to BGW for 60 years prior to the Gulf War.

They are waiting for British government approval that it is safe to fly to BGW!


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swissgabe
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Mon May 12, 2003 10:03 pm

Do you really thing that there is such a BIG market for airlines?

In my opinion most airlines have other problems than thinking of flying to Baghdad and try to make some money (or to loose some). Most carriers are very careful with adding new destinations to their network without a intensive study.
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N79969
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Mon May 12, 2003 11:27 pm

I believe that Baghad is the second largest Arab city after Cairo.
 
diesel1
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Tue May 13, 2003 12:24 am

Cynical viewpoint...

Because it sounds and looks good... all about image....
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N79969
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Tue May 13, 2003 12:28 am

"Because it sounds and looks good... all about image...."

But if that were true, then there would have been some commercial flights into Kabul as well. I don't think that is the reason. Before the Gulf War, Baghdad was an important destination because of its size and relative wealth. I think Baghdad will become an important destination once again as soon as the economy gets moving.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Tue May 13, 2003 3:01 am

I think Baghdad will be one very busy airport in a few years as construction workers arriving to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure show up on a large scale. We're very fortunate that one of the few lavish things Saddam Hussein did that will outlast him was to build that very modern airport with long runways and modern terminals.

By 2010, Baghdad could be quite a busy airport because Iraq has many major historic sites that could be opened to tourism.
 
Jaspike
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Tue May 13, 2003 3:09 am

When Iraq is back to normal, though it could be a while, I'd love to go there.

From the pictures I've seen on TV, the airport needs a bit of work doing to it in some areas, though it looks a nice place.. if it wasn't for the pictures of Saddam all over the walls.

Josh
 
raggi
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Tue May 13, 2003 3:20 am

sk:
Iraq is not the second biggest oil producer, however its known oil reserves are second only to saudi-arabia.

a bit off topic, but nevertheless


raggi
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CPH-R
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Tue May 13, 2003 3:37 am

Yeah, and that figure is from a 1979 estimate. So there might be more down there than they think.
 
prosa
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Tue May 13, 2003 3:41 am

Baghdad may be (or have the potential to once again become) an important city, but I just don't foresee any direct flights by U.S. carriers. Figure it this way, the only U.S. carrier serving the Middle East is CO into TLV.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
luv2fly
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Tue May 13, 2003 3:43 am

I believe it would be the high cost of the tickets that the airlines would be charging on this route at first.

 Big grin
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EurostarVA
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Tue May 13, 2003 4:06 am

Airlines are rushing to fly into Baghdad because they know it will be a lucrative route not to be missed. If you look at all the Iraqis living overseas (of which a lot are relatively educated and wealthy), they would surly love to fly back home to visit family and friends and savor the reality of post-Saddam Iraq. As to business traffic, yes, there is a LOT of it developing. It is only natural for an airline like KLM, which has flown to various cities in the Middle East for decades, to add Baghdad to its route network. Same for Lufthansa and British Airways.

On the long run (perhaps summer 2004), I expect these airlines to be flying into Baghdad:

- Emirates
- Qatar
- Gulf Air
- Saudi
- Royal Jordanian
- EgyptAir
- British Airways
- KLM
- Lufthansa
- Turkish Airlines
- Air France (Would there be enough business traffic for this one?!?!?!)
- Aeroflot (same as above)
- Northwest (applied already)









If there is a will, there is a way
 
Jaspike
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Tue May 13, 2003 4:08 am

Baghdad's going to be very busy!

Hopefully more great pics for the database Big thumbs up even if we have to wait a while...

Josh
 
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STT757
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Tue May 13, 2003 4:16 am

In the begining the flights are going to get lots of folks heading to Iraq as aide workers, contractors in the rebuilding, and former exiles/expatriots with ties to Iraq.

7 years down the road Iraq could be a much different place than it is now, with it's oil reserves and skilled and educated population they are going to one day rival the United Arab Emirates, Qartar, Kuwait and Bahrain as a prosperous and developing country.

Not saying they are all going to be driving BMWs and Hummer H-2s in ten years, but I think they are going to see a HUGE investment and development starting within the next two years.

First things first, the new Government has to get up and running and the services have to be retsored and an effective Iraqi Civil Defense force organzied and deployed.

Most US troops will be out of Iraq within a year, however long term I think the US is going to sign a long term lease agreement with the new Government giving the US "access rights" to as many as 4 bases (mostly airbases).

The first base would be on part of the current Baghdad international airport, it would be for VIP/Government flights and heavey C-17s, C-5s etc.. It would function alongside the civilian air services like Frankfurt.

The second would be near Nasariya, and would serve as a US Marine/Navy airfield with mostly helios and visiting P-3s, Harriers, F-18s etc.

The 3rd airbase would be in the Western Desert of Iraq at a former Iraqi airbase know as h-3 or h-2? It would serve as a Special ops training facility.

And the fourth would either be at a former Iraqi air base on the Eastern edge of Baghdad know as (tallill airbase?), or in Northern Iraq possibly in Tekrit or Mosul.

The fourth base would be a USAF base for F-15s etc.

Also the British are likely to setup a Naval station at Um Qasar and possibly a Royal Marine post at Basara.

These bases would be jouint coalition and Iraqi military, it will be interesting to see what the "new" Iraqi Air Force will look like.

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STT757
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Tue May 13, 2003 4:19 am

Besides NWA I would expect to see CO eventually apply for Baghdad flights, possibly continuing on to Dubai.

CO was set to launch Dubai flights pre-9-11.

As was DL.

CO's ties to Houston makes it a strong possiblity that they would launch flights to Baghdad.
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LV
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Tue May 13, 2003 4:28 am

Just think of the yields flights into Baghdad will be getting between aide works, reconstruction personal, military personal, tourists, etc.

I'm salivating just at the thought of how much of a cash cow those routes will be and Im not a CEO or stockholder of an airline.
 
Leezyjet
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Tue May 13, 2003 6:59 am

"Just think of the yields flights into Baghdad will be getting between aide works, reconstruction personal, military personal, tourists, etc."

Think you hit the nail on the head there LV.

The potential for making money on that route is huge, as you said there will be lots and lots of people going to Iraq to help rebuilding as well as all the exiles returning to visit friends and relatives. The Iraqi people themselves that have hardly been able to travel anywhere will be another source of revenue as they begin to travel the world again. Also don't forget cargo. There will be tonnes and tonnes of stuff being flown into Iraq in the next few years as rebuilding begins.

Iraq now is basically like the rest of the Middle East in the late 70's/80's - a huge pot of cash waiting to be opened. I think thats why the airlines are so keen to start flying there.


"CO's ties to Houston makes it a strong possiblity that they would launch flights to Baghdad"

Or they could tie in with a VS service as they do with the LGW-PHC route that has just started. That was one of the reasons why VS started that route from LGW, so they could tie in with the oil workers coming from IAH.

 Smile
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ti717
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Tue May 13, 2003 7:21 am

You also have to think that an airline could get the route now and hold on to it. Either not fly it or a once a week flight until the market improves. The a airline all over holding on to routes to use on a sunny day.

TI717
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DeltaRules
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Tue May 13, 2003 8:07 am

- Emirates
- Qatar
- Gulf Air
- Saudi
- Royal Jordanian
- EgyptAir
- British Airways
- KLM
- Lufthansa
- Turkish Airlines
- Air France (Would there be enough business traffic for this one?!?!?!)
- Aeroflot (same as above)
- Northwest (applied already)


...I bet the airlines not on that list will probably use LH, AF, NW, or KL to fly into Baghdad on codeshare flights, if that's allowed.

DeltaRules
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carduelis
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Tue May 13, 2003 8:43 am

OK Guys, dream on!

There's so much more in the factual world than dreaming!
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
N743AS
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Tue May 13, 2003 11:59 am

I heard gas is really cheap and the information minister is the air traffic controller "NO Northwest 1234, follow the infidel to the marker and then proceed in bound! You are no where near the airport! YOU AREN'T HERE! INFIDEL!
If the airplane is one piece, don't cheat on it...ride the bastard down! -Ernest K. Ghann
 
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coronado
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Tue May 13, 2003 1:48 pm

In the mid 80's Baghdad had plenty of air servide. I actually flew a Korean air from Bahrein into Baghdad in 1984 back when the US was selling food products to Iraq. That was a rather busy airport. The Korean flight was full of construction engineers and supervisors building freeways, etc in Iraq.

Considering the population of Iraq, the size of Baghdad itself, the size of Iraq's oil reserves, and the amount of construction, there is no reason to think that Baghdad within 10 years could not be even more significant of a regional hub than Dubai. What is the population of Dubai?

Then add the tourism potential. Baghdad and Iraq with the fertile Tigris and Euphrates valleys is full of historical significance and it is a very attractive country with interesting geography. Plus with a bit of a more secular outlook than some of the gulf states Baghdad is certainly a candidate for becoming a tourism destination for the middle east.

NWA and Continental, using the Amsterdam hub made possible by their KLM relationship, makes the most sense as an American carrier. Detroit and Houston (and of course LA) are probably the 3 major centers of Iraqi residents in the US. NWA serving Baghdad is certainly no stranger than NWA operating service into India via Amsterdam.
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nwacrew
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RE: Why Are Airlines Wanting Baghdad So Much?

Tue May 13, 2003 1:57 pm

The Detroit area is home to the largest Iraqi population in the United States. I'm sure that has something to do with Northwest's interest in flying to Baghdad...

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