flyboy80
Posts: 1812
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

Delta's Florida Presence

Tue May 13, 2003 10:56 am

This is something that I have yet to discuss, but it draws a great deal of interest in me. Delta seems to have a HUGE presence in Florida. Flights from ATL to more then 5 Florida destinations incorporate numerous wide body frequency, many 767s. This amount of flights to the Florida destinations is unsurpassed by any other carrier, and certainly is one of the U.S's densest route systems. If you combined all of the seats up between ATL and the Florida cities alone you would have thousands and thousands of seats flying between Florida and ATL alone. So what is going on here? Does DL specialize in offering mass amounts of low fares to Florida or something? Has it always been like this? Or was DL Express operating these routes at one time with extremely high frequency? And maybe this is just an "adaptation" to the market as the Express branch has diminished? I know Atlanta is somewhat known as the capital of the south, and I'm sure theres probably a lot of business relations between these cities, but that doesn't seem to account for all of it. I am really looking for some answers here, I'm looking forward to what all of you have to say. Thanks!
 
Guest

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Tue May 13, 2003 11:00 am

Supply and demand?
Easiest outbound connections for Floridians? Fly one hour north and connect to anywhere in the U.S. and many international destinations. It beats flying all the way to DC or NYC to connect.
 
usairways85
Posts: 3537
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Tue May 13, 2003 11:02 am

Delta has always been known for offering many flights from ATL-florida. With Delta operating a mega hub at ATL they draw in many connecting paxs who transfer to one of the many flights to florida. At least that is what i have thought for a while.

Delta express never operated from ATL-Florida. DLX strickly focused on Florida-Northeast and bypassed ATL.
 
exusair
Posts: 658
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 12:15 am

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Tue May 13, 2003 11:10 am

There sre a lot of business ties between ATL and Florida cities. DL flights have a lot of business travellers, a lot of day trippers between ATL and Florida.

The demographics of the flights change remarkably throughout the day. With mostly business travellers in the mornings. Leisure travellers in the late mornings. A lot of senior citizens in the late morning. Europeans and British passengers in the afternoon. Residents, leisure and business travellers in the evenings.

It is IT for DL. The State of Florida contributes at least 25% of revenues to DAL, Inc. At most airports in Florida, DL is the #1 carrier. If not at #1, then it is in the top 3.

The location of the ATL hub makes it ideal for Florida traffic. CLT would be a great #2, but US has abandoned most of FL, and is a shadow of what it once was in terms of market share and flights and cities that it flies to.

Most traffic comes from the Northeastern US. A lot of talk about JB, but DL draws from many airports in the northeast and all 3 airports in NYC, unlike JB that has just JFK and a few cities behind it.
 
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STT757
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Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Tue May 13, 2003 11:24 am

Actually DL used to be alot bigger in Florida, especially in Orlando.

They used to have a "hub" at MCO, with L1011-500 flights to FRA, L1011 flights to SJU, 757 flights to STT, STX.

And "big" full service flights to the Northeast, I used to fly them alot to Orlando. I flew EWR-MCO on DL on 757s and MD80s. This was Early-mid Ninties.

DL also had plans to launch service to latin America from Orlando , the flights were even in the time tables but they did not "launch". A couple years later DL launched flights from ATL-Latin America.

I have a '94-'95 DL timetable that lists them lauching flights from Orlando -

Caracas, Mexico City, Guatemala City, San Jose, Panama City.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Tom in NO
Posts: 6725
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 1999 10:10 am

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Tue May 13, 2003 12:51 pm

From Delta's June 1, 1981 schedule, daily ATL-Florida freqs:

DAB: 4
FLL: 8 (2 L-1011's)
FMY: 4 (RSW's predecessor)
JAX: 7 (6 L-1011's)
MIA: 8 (3 L-1011's)
MCO: 8 (4 L-1011's)
SRQ: 4
TPA: 8 (3 L-1011's)
PBI: 6

Even 22 years ago, DL was a major player in Florida.

Tom in NO (at MSY)

PS to the MCO fans: at the same time, DL had MCO nonstops to ATL, BOS, ORD, DFW, DTW, MIA, MSY, LGA, EWR, JFK, PHL, SJU, TPA, and PBI, a total of 29 flights, quite a bunch in those days.
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Tue May 13, 2003 12:53 pm

Also remember that Eastern had a few flights as well.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
Tom in NO
Posts: 6725
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 1999 10:10 am

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Tue May 13, 2003 1:08 pm

I was trying to avoid doing this comparison tonight, heh heh. I had thought of EA, as well. Anyway, from EA's June 1, 1981 schedule, here's their ATL-Florida daily freqs:

DAB: 6
FLL: 5 (1 L-1011)
FMY: 4
GNV: 5
JAX: 8
MLB: 5
MIA: 9 (3 L-1011's, 2 A300's)
MCO: 8 (1 L-1011, 1 A300)
PNS: 7
SRQ: 6
TLH: 5
TPA: 8
DCA: 8
IAD: 1
BWI: 6
PBI: 6

Again, for the MCO crowd, EA flew nonstops from MCO to ATL, BWI, BOS, ORD, CLE, DAB, DTW, FMY, MIA, EWR, LGA, JFK, PHL, PIT, STL, SJU, SRQ, TPA, DCA, and PBI, a total of 46 flights.
Something to remember was that, at that time, MCO was still operating out of the cramped old terminal off of the BeeLine Expressway. I still remember how packed it was the first time I laid eyes on it.

Tom in NO (at MSY)
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
LV
Posts: 1546
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 6:02 am

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Tue May 13, 2003 1:39 pm

It amazes me how many seats DL puts into FLA. Lots of Widebodies. Not to mention Air Tran on top of that, but according to flytecomm here is a quick rundown of what DL runs into Florida from ATL (mainline only, connection carriers not included, but I know Comair and ASA both add a lot of capacity)

ATL-JAX (10 flights a day)
3* 757
1* MD80
4* 762
2* 763

ATL-DAB
4* MD80

ATL-MLB
3 * MD80

ATL-PBI (9 flights a day)
1 * MD80
2* 757
2* 762
3* 763
1* 764

ATL-FLL (10 flights a day)
2* 757
6* 763
2* 764

ATL-MIA (9 flights a day)
1 * MD80
6* 763
2* 764

ATL-MCO (11 flights a day)
1* 762
5* 763
4* 764
1* 772

ATL-RSW (8 flights a day)
2* 757
1* 762
5* 763

ATL-SRQ
3* 757
1* MD80

ATL-TPA (12 flights a day)
2* MD80
1* 762
5* 763
4* 764

ATL-TLH
2* 738
3* MD80

ATL-VPS
3* MD80

ATL-PNS
6* MD80

And this is just DL Mainline, just to Florida, and just from ATL. Florida, with its dependence on tourism, relies on air travel very heavily. Imagine what a shell of itself it would be if DL didnt exsist



 
flyboy80
Posts: 1812
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Tue May 13, 2003 2:10 pm

U all must admit that this is truely amazing! Atlanta is known as the capitol of the south, DL must have something else that draws the passengers on to those flights... LOW FARES. DL has been nutoriously known to have some pretty low fares in certain markets, and That prolly wouldn't exclude florida. Can anyone get any LOAD FACTORS on the flights??????????????? Thank you guys, I'll continue to check this post, and look forward to hearing more.
 
jhooper
Posts: 5560
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Tue May 13, 2003 3:49 pm

I'm told alot of the widebodies go down to Florida and back just to keep them in use between international hops.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
YV136C
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:47 pm

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Tue May 13, 2003 10:54 pm

I can tell from my experience that the load factors on these FLL-ATL are very high, especially for not being a particularly high season (End of April, beginning of May). My FLL-ATL flight was completely full (a 764), the flight that arrived from ATL before taking that flight looked very loaded as well. My ATL-FLL (764 as well) was at least at 90%. Of course, fares are dirt cheap as I flew FLL-SFO-FLL for 250 bucks!

Luis
YV136C
Proud to work for Embraer FLL!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Tue May 13, 2003 11:13 pm

As a frequent Delta traveler (my perferred carrier is AA, but Delta usually can get me there faster when AA does not fly non-stop), I always say to myself "well, it is the 6am on a Tuesday to Atlanta on a 764, no way it can be full." Wrong! I have never been on an empty flight from Ft. Lauderdale to Atlanta, and I am talking about flights mostly on 767-400s. I am flying FLL-ATL on a DL 764 next week, and got the last seat in F on the way up. On the way down in Y, I got one of only two window seats left (everything else was a middle seat). It's crazy how they fill up! MIA-ATL flights are usually not as packed, but fares are much higher and, obviously, yields are greater. Miami-Atlanta is a huge business route.
a.
 
strickerje
Posts: 706
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2001 1:35 pm

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Tue May 13, 2003 11:30 pm

I'm told alot of the widebodies go down to Florida and back just to keep them in use between international hops.

For the 777's in MCO and the few 767-300ER's in various cities, that's true. But the 767-400 is designed especially for the Florida and Hawaii leisure markets as it is in a 36+251 configuration with domestic first class seats instead of BusinessElite. Due to their much higher coach to first class ratio, Delta's 767-400's actually seat more passengers than their 777's.
 
AA737-823
Posts: 4888
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 11:10 am

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Wed May 14, 2003 1:05 am

sniff sniff...

I remember taking Dallas-Orlando on Delta... nonstop... in a beautiful L-1011... back when I was about two years old.

Those were the days.

Now Delta is pulling all widebody service out of Dallas.

We don't even have a flight to Hawaii...
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Wed May 14, 2003 1:08 am

I remember growing up and seeing the L1011's out of TW / KDTW), USA - Michigan">DTW, say the L1011's from EA, DL and TW. I miss those wide bodies.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3454
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Wed May 14, 2003 3:06 am

The last 3 Delta 767 flights I've been on out of JAX have all been completely full; one was oversold.

They've also been running 764's and M11's on these routes lately although I don't think those are for capacity reasons.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
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STT757
Posts: 13174
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Wed May 14, 2003 3:30 am

Most of the DL widebody flights to Florida are "Domestic" aircraft only, DL operates a large fleet of "Domestic" (non ER) 767-300s.

Also the 767-400 and 767-200s are all two class Domestic aircraft, the 767-400s and 767-200s are domestic only.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
lamyl_hhlco
Posts: 596
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 8:28 am

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Wed May 14, 2003 3:38 am

As far as I know ,Delta provide the only commercial flight at Daytona-Beach. I've seen the MD80's landing there ,but not much of other airlines

Lam
 
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STT757
Posts: 13174
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Wed May 14, 2003 3:43 am

COEX flies twice daily ERJ-145s from DAB to EWR.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
John
Posts: 1253
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 1999 10:47 am

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Wed May 14, 2003 3:56 am

I believe ALL of DL's 764s are ER versions.
 
USAIRWAYS321
Posts: 1703
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 4:31 pm

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Wed May 14, 2003 4:01 am

Lamyl_hhlco: Continental Express also flies to Daytona Beach, as does Vintage Props & Jets, a small Florida carrier.

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy Smile/happy/getting dizzy Smile/happy/getting dizzyUSAIRWAYS321 Smile/happy/getting dizzy Smile/happy/getting dizzy Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3454
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Wed May 14, 2003 4:06 am

I believe ALL of DL's 764s are ER versions

I believe you're right, and all the ones I've seen also are ETOPS-certified.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
lamyl_hhlco
Posts: 596
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 8:28 am

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Wed May 14, 2003 4:24 am

Thanx for the info USAIRWAYS321  Big grin
actually Delta is the only carrier to fly the MD80 ,which is the biggest jet flying out there..right?
 
drdivo
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Delta's Florida Presence

Wed May 14, 2003 4:38 am

All 764s are ER, there isn't a non-ER version.
Respectfully - the Divo

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