ROP
Topic Author
Posts: 234
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2001 3:46 pm

French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Tue May 13, 2003 10:16 pm

The latest news from Paris
The French official has officially announced today that Thai Airways order 8 A-340-500/600s costing approximately 1 billion euro. yes, Thai PM is now on the Paris visit.. So the order is confirmed...
I've heard that Thai order airbus because of having some agricultural products export deal with EU.

ROP
 
zizou
Posts: 1483
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 10:31 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Tue May 13, 2003 10:51 pm

Wren't Thai getting a few ex-United Airlines B747-400s? If so, whats the point of the Airbuses. Though mind you, I wouldn't mind seeing a Thai A340-600! It would look really nice...
 
ROP
Topic Author
Posts: 234
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2001 3:46 pm

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Tue May 13, 2003 11:02 pm

Sure, TG will also gets 7 ex-UAL 744s. the reason they also order airbus is to expand its fleet and route plan. However, the main real reasos is the economic deal wtih EU. Thailand will get more green light to export the frozen checken and shrimp product into EU countries.
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 10:27 pm

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 12:19 am

Watch for Thai to get some slots from the E.U. in the next couple of months.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
bobrayner
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 12:26 am

Do you have to look for bribery in every airbus deal?
Anyway, since when has the EU been responsible for slot allocation?  Wink/being sarcastic
Cunning linguist
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6058
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 12:49 am

Since the moment he thought up that hideous idea  Laugh out loud
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 12:54 am

B757300. Even if it was true - which it is not - how come MEA aren't allowed to fly to the US; and how come El Al's order for A330s was cancelled?
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 12:56 am

I defend Airbus not openly about governmental role in its business - however, why did a French minister have to announce it?

Seems to beat the objective of rebutting such an argument.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6058
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 1:04 am

Probably because if the Thai PM did it, then the critics would whine about Thai being subject to politics etc.
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1823
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 1:16 am

FWIW, TG wanted to order the 345 and 346 last year. But it was reported in the Thai press that the TG board was pressured to disapprove the order due to unsatisfactory settlement between Thailand and the EU on the poultry and shrimp export matters. There are governments who will leverage their national airline's aircraft purchases to get concessions from the EU or the US. Airbus and Boeing will leverage their respective government's influence to get orders. Who is more evil? I'll keep my opinion to myself.  Wink/being sarcastic
 
na
Posts: 9129
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 1:46 am

Every big aircraft deal these days, at least from state carriers, has its diplomatic, political issues as well.
So far no news.
Good news though for Airbus again who outbeat Boeing this year in a rather dramatic way.
Interesting to read in Flight international also that these airbusses are meant to replace 777-300s, which will be redeployed to less prestigious routes (and maybe sold midterm?).
 
I LOVE EWR
Posts: 803
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 6:07 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 2:22 am

Yes I to am going to raise a question that was asked before. Why does a French Government Official Announce this order? You don't see ANY US Officials announcing a large Boeing Order? Why is this?
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 2:34 am

EWR, probably the same reason EL-Al isn't flying Airbuses, politics.

 
747-451
Posts: 2327
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2000 5:50 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 3:00 am

"Thailand will get more green light to export the frozen checken and shrimp product into EU countries."

Oh, so now "free trade" means that in order to export your produts into Europe you have to buy Airbus; gee smells like US style politics now doesn't it  Yeah sure

"Why does a French Government Official Announce this order?"

I thought Airbus was a private company, after all Collin Powell doesnt announce Boeing orders....
 
varig md-11
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 3:19 am

you're right, he just announces retaliation against France on national television....that's free trade too
AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TN
 
KL808
Posts: 1534
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 3:49 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 3:29 am

Seriously though.... Other than the political BS,

does anybody know if these aircraft will be the same msn as the cancelled Egyptair aircraft?

when will these be delivered?

drew
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
747-451
Posts: 2327
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2000 5:50 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 4:52 am

Varig;


"you're right, he just announces retaliation against France on national television....that's free trade too"

No that's French deception. From viloating UN trade sanctions (which should call for UN sanction against them) to twisting the arms of nations into buying Airbus aircraft so that they will not be locked out of the European market...that's a special kind of crassness.
 
Going64
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:01 pm

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 4:58 am

B757300 is always against Airbus; but if you ask some source info related to his comments (like I did last week) he's very .....sssssssssss.....

I Love EWR: the French have a name of always wanna be in front for announcements etc.; don't pay too much attention to it like almost all other European countries already do  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Now I go to the chinese and will order european chicken and shrimps before it is too late ...  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Peter
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4767
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 4:58 am

Guys, can we PLEASE, just for this once, leave all the political insinuations and ASSumptions out of it? It's pathetic and really boring. So quit the crap, k?
 
747-451
Posts: 2327
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2000 5:50 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 5:00 am

Guys, can we PLEASE, just for this once, leave all the political insinuations and ASSumptions out of it?

Yes, and have EADS do the same.
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4767
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 5:12 am

just quit it, before you manage to ruin YET ANOTHER post with this childish manure. And keep the smart-ass flamebait remarks to yourself next time. They are of no interest to those of us with an EQ of over 12.
 
747-451
Posts: 2327
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2000 5:50 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 5:18 am

They are of no interest to those of us with an EQ of over 12.

and it is of interest to all of us with an "IQ" over 12.
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 5:24 am

I think we have a bunch of cry babies here who are pissed because Boeing didn't get the order. Every time Airbus gets an order, you guys find something to bitch about. Don't you ever get tired?

Staffan
 
bobrayner
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 5:24 am

and it is of interest to all of us with an "IQ" over 12.

Woah, you can even do pedantry. Congratulations.

Can we discuss some actual facts now?

[Edited 2003-05-13 22:29:41]
Cunning linguist
 
varig md-11
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 5:29 am

Going64

no problem, you can ignore us: we'd be far better off.....you should know, everybody is ignoring your country already Big grin


AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TN
 
copenhagenboy
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 11:03 pm

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 5:29 am

love to see it in THAI colours  Smile/happy/getting dizzy and nothing else. BTW I love A 330-340 over the B-777 in comfort in Y-class

[Edited 2003-05-13 22:30:52]
 
747-451
Posts: 2327
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2000 5:50 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 5:34 am

Can we discuss some actual facts now? Like twisting the arms of nations into buying Airbus aircraft so that they will not be locked out of the European market. (just being predatory :0)
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4767
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 5:43 am

and it is of interest to all of us with an "IQ" over 12.

Seems you are in need of some education. EQ is Emotional Intelligence.
 
N79969
Posts: 6605
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:43 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 5:50 am

I don't think it's a big deal that a French official announced the order. It is a big, high profile order.

However that they tied to it another trade issue is ridiculous. This lies somewhere blackmail and extortion. It goes to show that Airbus is still very much a part of France, SA despite the pretense of EADS.

 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1823
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 5:53 am

I think it would be extremely hard to ask either side to shut up. For example, El Al ordered the 777 in 1999, but its political implication is still constantly being brought up in this forum. So, do you really believe you can tell some people to shut up when you don't even ask politely? By using words like "ass", "pathetic", "crap", ... you ain't going to get people to heed your plea. You are only making the matter worse.
 
varig md-11
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 6:02 am

ok,since 747-451 is begging to talk about actual facts :

- the EU and France in particular are members of the axe of evil : they force poor countries to buy Airbuses against shrimp rights  Nuts

-EADS is so subsidized by the communist-pro-saddam french government that they give away their planes for free....  Acting devilish
by the way that's the ONLY reason why UA,US,NW, are taking 'buses in their fleet Big grin

there!?! everybody's happy??
AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TN
 
copenhagenboy
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 11:03 pm

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 6:17 am

Good fun Varig md-11, yes I think UA, US and NW are very antiamerican, lets go back to McCarthey, right now  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
747-451
Posts: 2327
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2000 5:50 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 6:30 am

Varig, Cpe;

by the way that's the ONLY reason why UA,US,NW, are taking 'buses in their fleet ...

I have no problem with Airbus aircraft, since the Amodern 32X family wipes the floor up with the aged 737 and am glad NWA and US air fly them. I only hate European complaints about US hegemony when the EU occaisonally does the same and then denies it.

no mas!
 
Going64
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:01 pm

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 4:14 pm

@Varid MD-11 :no problem, you can ignore us: we'd be far better off.....you should know, everybody is ignoring your country already

as you state you're from Holland you know what I mean with "haantje de voorste" and your reply looks like it as well; if you read my comment more carefully you will see I'm not ignoring your country but just NOT PAYING TOO MUCH ATTENTION to the situations where French officials are always in front of announcements that in a way are applicable on the whole European union!

btw love your other reply!
 
Joni
Posts: 2613
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:05 pm

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 5:15 pm


What UN trade sanctions has France violated? I must have missed that. however, I bet that isn't as serious as when Bush invaded Iraq and violated the UN Charter, which is also a violation of US law.



 
User avatar
DaV
Posts: 657
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2001 5:26 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Wed May 14, 2003 9:09 pm

As you all can see even with a non-av forum all this BS seems to make its way up there every now and then...

Can I ask the intervention of moderators? If you ever need help in pointing out all the insults contained just in this very thread, I'd be glad to sumonize it up for you...  Yeah sure

DaV
Two monologues do not make a dialogue
 
spk
Posts: 430
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2001 1:56 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Thu May 15, 2003 12:38 am

Let's face it. Political influence will be here to stay in every major aircrafts deal.

You know what? About 2 weeks after the order was first announced, Boeing sent in a team to try to unhook the deal. The guy kinda hint to a local business newspaper that there will be some political influence from the US to push 777.
 
varig md-11
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Thu May 15, 2003 5:04 am

DaV

we all look like a bunch of cry-babies in these A vs B controversies....
but as mentionned, planes sales are so much linked to politics - which is a shame- that it's bound to happen now and then...

how could it be otherwise? when A or B announces a victory in a country,B or A sends "negociators" to this same country and annouces a victory too 2 weeks after....

if we should call the moderators everytime we discuss the hidden face of a deal, nearly 1/2 of this forum users wouldn't come anymore....

what would be the interest of a forum if the aim is to applaud when US buys A or AF buys B and not be allowed to make any coments about the reasons why and why not?
AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TN
 
747-451
Posts: 2327
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2000 5:50 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Thu May 15, 2003 5:11 am

What UN trade sanctions has France violated?

The ones that created the trade sanctions with Iraq; 687,678 1441 etc. Such as parts for fighters, chemicals etc etc. Actually everyone is guilty-including the ones pointing fingers. PS. 1441 was enforced.

"but as mentionned, planes sales are so much linked to politics"

unfortunate but true.
 
User avatar
DaV
Posts: 657
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2001 5:26 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Thu May 15, 2003 5:13 am

Varig md-11, I'm fine that politic may come out speaking of commercial orders (economy is often tied with politic), but it's impossible that every order post become the chance to start some childish (and sometimes not-so-childish but offensive) flame war and to insult people... the forum is negatively affected by such thread.

DaV
Two monologues do not make a dialogue
 
varig md-11
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Thu May 15, 2003 5:15 am

so you're here again? Big grin
yeah we sold chemicals, weapons, our ailing economy depended on trade with Irak and now we gave passports to saddam's friend and help them to escape...gee don't you watch CNN??
AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TN
 
rongotai
Posts: 350
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 11:59 am

RE: French Official Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Thu May 15, 2003 6:23 am

I come from neither North America nor Europe. From where I sit (preferably on an Airbus usually) both the US and the EU behave like boorish gorillas when it comes to selling airliners or anything else, and neither has the slightest interest in free trade in any real sense. It really amuses me to see Americans and Europeans slagging off at each other when both their political realities are two sides of the same corrupt and self serving coin.

I don't believe there has ever been an Airbus or Boeing sold anywhere on purely commercial considerations if you take into account both the customers and the suppliers. LCA's come closest to making hard nosed commercial decisions, but all they are doing is taking advantage of politically distorted prices offered by B and A.

In my view Boeing and Airbus are equally state supported. It's just that in the US state support is called 'military contracts'.
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1823
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Thu May 15, 2003 7:05 am


In my view Boeing and Airbus are equally state supported. It's just that in the US state support is called 'military contracts'.


In 2002, EADS's total revenue was 29,901 million Euros of which 19,512 millions Euros was from Airbus. BAE Systems owns 20% of Airbus. Their 2002 results showed 2,773 million Pounds of revenue from commercial out of their total revenue of 12,907 million Pounds. Boeing's 2002 revenue was 54,069 million Dollars, and Boeing Commercial contributed 28,387 million Dollars.

In relative terms, 65% of EADS's revenue is from Airbus, 21% of BAE Systems' revenue is from their share of Airbus, and 53% of Boeing's revenue is from Boeing Commercial. Based on these results, both in relative and absolute terms, I don't think anyone can say Boeing has a definitive 'military contracts' advantage. Don't forget, Boeing's military revenue had been drastically increased after they acquired McDonnell, and that was only six years ago.

I hope facts speak louder than some of the myths being spread around.
 
N79969
Posts: 6605
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:43 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Thu May 15, 2003 7:18 am

There are no such things as 'repayable loans' or 'launch aid' for Boeing commercial airplanes. There is simply no comparison between the support that Airbus has received and any purported "support" that Boeing receives.

This military contract=subsidy argument is simply nonsense spewed by Airbus and France SA. There is no parity.
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Thu May 15, 2003 7:20 am

Who ensures that the extra money Boeing gets isn't used for commercial development?

Staffan
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1823
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Thu May 15, 2003 7:37 am

Steffan:

What's your point? Haven't you read my Reply #42? EADS and BAE Systems have military and government contracts. Even if all the profits from government contracts can be used to subsidize Boeing Commercial, the same argument applies to Airbus, too. Because BAE Systems is so heavily dependent on defense revenue, your argument can arguably be used against Airbus more so than against Boeing.
 
rongotai
Posts: 350
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 11:59 am

RE: French Official Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Thu May 15, 2003 7:44 am

Special pleading I'm afraid N79667. My experience of strategic decision making at Airbus is that they are able to fudge commercial decisions because of the mechanisms you describe. But my experience of strategic decision making at Boeing is that they are able to do exactly the same thing because of their capacity to shift cash around from feather bedded military contracts, leavened by the sorts of incentive tax breaks that states give to US companies to stay in their district.

The result is that BOTH companies have decision making cultures that are nothing like those you find in competitive environments where costs of production really have to be fully factored in. When they are competing for a big deal both companies send people scuttling off to their domestic politicians to see what can be done.

I would agree that Airbus started this stuff, but there was absolutely no other way for a non-American competitor to get into the game given the absurd generosity of US military contracts, which were far more of a feather bed then than they are now.

My main point was, however, that both the US and Europe preach free trade abroad and don't practice it at home, to the cost of the rest of us. Thai and other airlines are merely trying to make the best of it according to the dictum stated by somebody-or-other "Large nations always behave like gangsters and small nations always behave like prostitutes." (Yes, and I DO know that the EU isn't a nation. It is a new type of institution - a geopolitical whore house run by a gangster).
 
speedbirdyvr
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2003 11:54 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Thu May 15, 2003 7:57 am

Both sides are just the same. Fine, the US thinks that Israel and Taiwan should buy US planes because both countries owe their existence to the US. Well, excuse me, but doesn't the US recognize the one china policy? And if I may add, I think all the US airlines should buy Airbus products because the Statue of Liberty, the most recognized symbol of US freedom was a gift from France!
 
747-451
Posts: 2327
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2000 5:50 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Thu May 15, 2003 8:00 am

I would agree that Airbus started this stuff, but there was absolutely no other way for a non-American competitor to get into the game given the absurd generosity of US military contracts, which were far more of a feather bed then than they are now.


Wrong. Boeing only became a major military supplier about 7 years ago. EADS/BAE/AIRBUS has been *insert eupemism for subsidy here* since it's inception in 196*.
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: French Oficial Announce Thai Order 8 Airbuses

Thu May 15, 2003 8:06 am

Point was that Airbus gets its extra money certain ways, Boeing gets theirs other ways, at the end of the day, they are both getting money, none is better than the other.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aaway, AC853, acrimmo, AirportRival, alomar, ArtV, AvObserver, Baidu [Spider], benrgv, Bing [Bot], Boeing778X, BreninTW, CHCalfonzo, csturdiv, DeltaRules, Exabot [Bot], fkfnz, LGAviation, msycajun, NeBaNi, Qantas16, silentbob, tharanga and 325 guests