SQ Guilty Of Copying BA's First Class

Thu Dec 02, 1999 5:43 pm

Singapore Airlines is guilty of copying British Airways' First Class Product, especailly the seat design. This is evident in an interview with Dr Cheong Cheong Kong in Fortune magazine recently.

In the interview it mentioned that when British Airways announced their new First Class product, Dr Cheong Cheong Kong called an urgent meeting with his commercial manager Mr Michael Tan and instructed that they develop something similar. According to SQ, "the new First Class was a response to extensive customer research". May I ask what research? Research into how to copy its competitors.

Face it SQ, you copy many things from innovator airlines. Your First Class is not original but a total copy of British Airways. SQ should be sued hard.

If readers are thinking why Qantas has the same seats, let me inform you that British Airways came them the rights to use the patent because after all, BA owns 25 per cent of Qantas and the objective of oneworld alliance is to offer similar concept of comfort and this is evident between BA, QF and CX across their First Class. On the other hand, Cathay Pacific has recently introduced their new exceptional First Class product and is by no comparison a copy of is original in its concept of providing privacy and total comfort. What SQ did was take the copy of the design and motify some features......not very creative SQ.

Sorry SQ but BA, QF and CX First Class are the BEST in its original identity and concept. In Future, SQ should try and focus on developing their own products rather than totally copying the patented product........highly legal stuff here!

RE: SQ Guilty Of Copying BA's First Class

Thu Dec 02, 1999 6:15 pm

Sorry airline2000, but judging from this, and your previous posts, you seem to have a thing against SIA. ("found it terrible, especially the cabin crew. They are rude, arrogant and the food is not as good as CX. Singapore Airlines' cabin crew have bad attitude and are the biggest show-offs I have ever come to know." is just one of the few posts you have posted slamming SIA. Yet why is it that SIA is consistently rated as the best?) While I do not want to pass my own judgements yet (I'll let the courts decide) I think there is no rationale behind hoping others get "sued hard". It is easy to claim that others are copying, yet I think you should also try to recognise that these things happen all the time, only that not every case is mentioned with this much publicity. What about the many innovations like PTVs that were introduced by other airlines and were introduced later by BA? Would you admit then that BA was copying? If BA were to introduce champagne in economy class now, would that not be copying too? I'm sorry, but you do seem to have the extremely narrow view that certain carriers that you like should be given the sole right to introduce innovations that would have been introduced sooner or later anyway, while those that you don't like should be blocked from introducing them later, perhaps in the hope that they will slip and fall behind?
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Thu Dec 02, 1999 6:34 pm

What a senseless discussion!

If you want we can start to list what other airlines copied from SIA in the past, the problem is it would cost many pages and take several hours to complete that list...

By the way I've flown SIA, BA and CX, just to name the mentioned. Not First class, but despite that I can conclude the following:
SIA was best in service, entertainment, food, comfort, flight attendants, ground personal and so on. BA was not as good but still very satisfying. CX is ok, but compared to SIA, they have no chance (my personal impression).
Everybody who tells bad stories about SIA is not objective, or it is a very special case. I don't want to become ironical again, but maybe in some cases the dislike against SIA is simply caused by a rejected invitation to a Singapore Girl FA...


Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...

RE: SQ Guilty Of Copying BA's First Class

Thu Dec 02, 1999 6:47 pm

They should be sued hard? What a bunch of a**e!
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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:15 am

RE: Ridiculous!

Thu Dec 02, 1999 6:53 pm

Absolutely Ridiculous. BA is my most flown airline. But I've also flown SQ a few times. In my opinion SIA just beats the living hell outta BA in all aspects although BA is a good airline in itself like Udo mentioned. So who introduced the concept of food in airline service - I'm sure it was not BA so why not someone turn around and sue BA and every other airline for providing meals!!!. Face it - its competition and when its all said and done the passengers benefit - if not somethings terribly wrong.
I've flown on 9V-SPK.
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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm


Thu Dec 02, 1999 7:03 pm

By the way, if they get sued hard (as some people hear want to see), who cares about it?
Regarding SIA's high profits, caused by satiesfied customers, everything which they would have to pay is "peanuts".

Success won't be stopped.

Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...

RE: Peanuts...

Thu Dec 02, 1999 8:35 pm

Udo, what the hell would you know about how Singapore Airlines operates its business. You are very far away in Germany and have a very biased view point. Open up to the world and take what is reality........I work there in the head office and I know what those jerks get up to!

Singapore Airlines has become a JOKE!
Singapore 777
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RE: Peanuts...

Thu Dec 02, 1999 9:58 pm

Airline2000, like I said before, you seem to have something against SIA EVERY SINGLE TIME! Every single time you post, it's regarding how SQ vs CX. Why not other things? Because you're biased!

You're a sick CX supporter who cares not about other people feel about SIA. Other people are entitled to their opinions whether they feel SIA is good or not. So far, the majority have been satisfied (esp. everyone participating in this thread) and I judge by my experience and not what others say.

CX and SQ are playing on a level field, that's what I think after a few flights with each airline. Both are good, (exception: SIA's stewardess can be arrogant sometimes) so stop your criticizing.
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RE: Peanuts...

Thu Dec 02, 1999 10:07 pm

Okay guys lets not fight about this and make it personal. Airline2000 and Kuantan - I am really not sure what you're views are based on (can you explain) but from a passenger/customer stand point I will have to agree with what Udo said. I live in Dallas, and have flown both SQ and BA and have pretty much the same views about the services of these airlines as Udo does. Don't get this wrong - BA is a good airline - punctual, not too many problems with baggage handling (in fact I haven't had one yet), and okay inflight service/menus. SQ on the other hand has super Customer service along with super inflight service and menus.

Airline2000 - about your statement : "You are very far away in Germany and have a very biased view point. Open up to the world and take what is reality...."
Can you please explain what you mean by 1) Biased View point? 2)Take What is Reality - what is this reality you are talking about and can you substantiate it with facts? I just want to know where your thoughts are coming from and don't want to jump to any conclusions.

I've flown on 9V-SPK.
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Thu Dec 02, 1999 11:13 pm

How can anyone take you seriously Airline 2000 when in your post "Whats wrong with SQ" at 12/02/99 at 1242pm, you have stated "facts" that are blatantly wrong? Some of the things you accuse SQ of, are copied exactly by your beloved Cathay.
I've taken the liberty of adding some corrections to a couple of points to your post in that thread. If you presented a fair and balanced view of things, you may get more sympathy from people in this forum, but by blurting things out as you have in that post without thinking, it makes it hard for people to consider your posts as credible.
Regards. Al.
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To Air2000

Fri Dec 03, 1999 12:44 am

Hi again,

Thanks a lot JR, you exactly said what I intended to say.

I ask Air2000: Why am I biased? And living in Germany, does it mean I don't know anything? I am open to the world, more than others, you can believe me. My location is in Germany but my thinking is worldwide. Clear?
And what about you? In which office are you sitting that gives you the knowledge about SIA?

Air2000, your posts are so ridiculous, it seems we have a new Mr.Comedy. Welcome!
Oh, by the way, don't take it personally, I really forgot you are MR.ASIA, the man who knows all and always tells truth to the world! I'm sorry!

Looking forward to the next "SIA- the real darkness" topic!!!

Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
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Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 10:34 pm

RE: SQ Guilty Of Copying BA's First Class

Fri Dec 03, 1999 1:15 am

For all your information, this is the THIRD time I am replying to this topic about SQ and BA. Like my previous posts (yawn!), I said that this is NOT up to us to pass any judgement., and we will wait for the verdict before making anything else.

The Chinese has a saying that "the onlooker is the most neutral". How can you accuse someone who makes a judgement according to what he sees only (the passengers of SIA???

If you are working for SIA, how could you put down the company that pays you money? Shouldn't you try somewhere "better" like Cathay Pacific Office at Ocean Building?

But I noticed that you do post certain (not many) messages praising SIA, like that of Conde Nast.

Regarding Qantas seats, anyone SAW the "black and white" BA gave to QF to allow the use of BA's designs????

Just my thoughts.
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Ugh...WHO Cares?

Fri Dec 03, 1999 3:22 am

I say if a product or service works, then any company should try and offer something similar. Would an airline using an all business class layout and providing business class service at a coach fare be accused of copying my fave, Midwest Express? I sure as hell hope so, because there should be more airlines like that!

This entire topic seems somewhat a moot point. Anyone else agree?
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To Air2000

Fri Dec 03, 1999 5:20 am

What about United? Their new FirstSuite seems exactly like BA's seat, even to the point of being angled in the cabin. But who cares? If it's a good seat United should install it. That's the way the industry works -- somebody comes up with something meaningful and others adapt. It's sad to see someone your age be so unhappy with their professional life. I recommend you change (your thinking or your job) becuase you've got a long career ahead of you and it would be ashame if you spent the next 40 years this unhappy.
Posts: 594
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 1999 3:47 am

People, Calm Down...

Fri Dec 03, 1999 6:39 am

Hey guy's, don't you think you should calm down a bit?

I think you dealt this topic with way too much emotion!

I think the courtroom has to decide: if SIA copied or stole patents singned up and used by BA, then there should be a penalty, don't you think?

This is how business works. You can't simply copy inventions made by other companies.


Whether or not SIA is a better airline than BA or CX is a completely different question and should be discussed seriously somewhere else.

Have a nice day!

You Are An Ungrateful Br**!

Fri Dec 03, 1999 11:24 am

Airline2000,you are so ungrateful!SQ gives you free airline tickets,medical benefits,lots of paid leave(my mom gets 21 days)and you are not happy,why not join CX instead since you love Cathay so much!If youhate SQ that much,just don't fly it ever again.I think SQ does not deserve such an ungrateful person like you.Don't think I do not know!You work in the SIA building down in Shenton Way.


Now more Than Ever,A Great Way To Fly!
Singapore 777
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RE: You Are An Ungrateful Br**!

Fri Dec 03, 1999 11:34 am

I think most of you here have summed it up all quite well. Don't forget a First Class product does not only consist of the seat. It's also the service offered by the F/As, the food, the Entertainment, the ambience and so on.

So I do not think it's fair to compare SQ and BA's first class product and say that SQ has copied and infringed patent. You can't patent the idea, only the design (or even parts of it). What about other airline's who have introduced sleeper seats? Do you say they copy also? How about your beloved Cathay? Didn't they recently introduced sleeper seats? Didn't they copy also?

BA is not being fair because knowing that SIA has joined the Star Alliance, there is competition whereas Cathay is in Oneworld, and they are allies. There is strong competition from BA's routes originating in SIN thus they have to destroy SIA's hold on the market share.

That Simple! Airline2000 is simply BIASED!


Fri Dec 03, 1999 11:56 am

Singapore 777 said
"BA is not being fair because knowing that SIA has joined the Star Alliance.........thus they have to destroy SIA's hold on the market share."

Yes!I agree with you!To add on to my previous post.I said Airline2000 was an ungrateful br**.My mom has been working in SIA for 22 years,but she hasn't even complained about them.See how loyal she is even after 22 years,unlike some people over there,putting up some ridiculous post saying SIA copied BA's seat and saying SIA is guilty.

To Airline2000:
If you like Cathay Pacific so much,why not quit Singapore Airlines! They will not die with one less staff like you!!


P.S.If you think SQ is copying BA,then why is CX now copying SQ??

P.P.S.I've noticed quite a few Singaporeans in this post.Why not we write a petition and pass it to Dr.Cheong asking for Airline2000 to be sacked so he can go to his beloved airline,Cathay Pacific?


Fri Dec 03, 1999 12:29 pm

To Airline2000:
I'll make sure SIA sacks you.This is the third time I'm here,if you are not happy,just quit and cross Shenton Way to your beloved airline's head office.If you finally join CX, you report back to us and tell us whether you like it there.Since you are an executive,you have a degree and why is your mind still so dirty,to think you can insult SQ.Let me tell you, if you insult SQ,you are also insulting Singapore and the goverment.Now,do you think you deserve to be a Singaporean.Since you like CX so much,why not you become a Chinese national and work in their main office?

P.S.Since you are earning so much,you should be grateful.My mom earns only about S$2000+ a month.You being an executive,earning $4000 and more, an SQ hater,why din't you work in CX in the first place??


P.P.S.I've had enough of this.Why not no more SQ vs. Cx for the next 6 mths or so?

If you wanna know me,please e-mail to


I Forgot Something......

Fri Dec 03, 1999 1:26 pm

This is what I said:

"Since you are an executive...........why is your mind still so dirty......."

I would like to change the"still so dirty..." to "childish so as to insult SIA".

To Airline2000:
Regarding to your post in SQ or CX,you said SIA's planes were undermaintained.If they were such,why hasn't been SIA involved in a crash since 1972?So you are saying 9V-SJA to 9V-SJM, 9V-SMA to 9V-SPM,9V-SQA to 9V-SRZ,9V-STA to 9V-ST? are under-maintained?If they are,how come there has been no SQ crash for 27 years?And how come when SIA introduced Krisworld,it has been fitted to all planes now while CX claimes to have it done by mid-2000?And Cx's PTv has only 6 measly channels,while SQ has nearly 3 times the amount of CX.And you were saying Ansett is a small airline.I bet you did not know that Ansett has big airline status.It has much more planes than CX,so CX isn't as big as it seems.And you were saying SQ flies ti its destinations once a week.What a joke!Maybe your beloved airline flies to its destinations once a week.And if you read and count their timetables,YOU will find that SQ flies to more destinations than CX.SIA flies to 100+ destinations in 72 countries.You were saying also the Singapore Girl is horrible.Well,in YC,they treated me like king.Got what I wanted,and let me tour the cockpit.And for that 747-300 crash-landing,it was not entirely SQ's fault.Sure,SQ has only 94 planes,but when they get all their 777's,they will have a fleet of 100+aircraft consisting of 777's and 747's tile the 340NG's come in 2002.Remember this:If you want to put up any more despising SQ posts,I'll make sure I get Johan to remove them.


You still wanna scold SQ?IF you insult SQ, you are insulting yourself.


You Are A Sick Idiot!

Fri Dec 03, 1999 5:09 pm

Airline2000,this is my fifth time writing in.In your profile,under More Information,this is what you wrote:

More info:Work for rubbish airlines"Singapore Airlines".

I have talked with Singapore777 about this for a few moments and we have decided that if you call SQ a rubbish airline,we have the right to call CX another rubbish airline.I will soon be updating my profile to include that.Face reality,Airline2000.Don't pretend any longer.If Dr Cheong knows about this,man,you are sure gonna get it from him..And why do you call Udo biased?Udo is already opened to the world,but I think YOU ARE THE ONE WHOSE EYES ARE CLOSED!!!

P.S.You are so childish.If you still do not change your thinking,you will get it from all of us.

'Nuff said


P.P.S.Sorry for my 5 verrrryyyy llllloooonnnggg posts.

P.P.P.S.I hope one day SQ sacks you(Airline2000)then you can go and join your favorite airline,rubbish airline"Cathay Pacific".

You Need To Go To Woodbridge!

Fri Dec 03, 1999 5:24 pm

Airline2000,since you say you are a S'porean,you should know what Woodbridge is.(It is the name of the famous mental hospital in Singapore)I think you deserve to be in there for slamming SIA.Maybe I should tell SIA,then they'll sue you,and you'll lose and pay S$1,000,000,000 in damages.If you can't pay,you go to jail for defamation of SIA.If you insult them,you insult me,yourself everyone who is a citizen,President S.R.Nathan,you insult PM Goh and the whole Singapore!!And you will also insult the whole world!!

Face it,Airline2000,open up to reality.

P.S.I dunno why I can't stop!!

'Nuff said

Singapore 777
Posts: 982
Joined: Sat May 29, 1999 3:00 pm

RE: You Are A Sick Idiot!

Fri Dec 03, 1999 11:15 pm

The point here is not that I want to call CX a rubbish airline or anything. CX is a good airline and so is SQ but to say that SQ is way below the line is simply ridiculous!

Everybody here is entitled to his or her own opinions. I hope you do not take what Gundu has said to heart. He's probably just a little angry from what he's heard. It's natural. If you really like CX so much better than SQ, than just travel on them the next time. Period.

Sorry if I was a little harsh.
Posts: 4359
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: You Need To Go To Woodbridge

Fri Dec 03, 1999 11:35 pm

I wonder whether Gundu can be objective towards SQ. Saying that anti-SQ people have to go to a mental hospital, is a sign that some people can't cope with some less favourable views about SQ. Furthermore, the hosptal would be full very fast.

I myself am not a very pro-SQ person. The reason for this is that on my SQ flights (AMS-EWR-AMS) the service was very disappointing compared to the service I get on other airlines. If this means that I have to go to a mental hospital to get rid of the illness I would like to ask since when everybody has to have a positive view about SQ. Is it because SQ don't like people who don't follow the SQ faith (in that case am I allowed to fly SQ again?)? I can't believe that an airline like SQ doesn't accept any criticism.

As far as the copying concerns. Everybody looks and copies or copies and improve. This is not new.

To Gundu I would like to say. Grow up! Although I know you're a follower of the SQ faith , please accept that even SQ isn't perfect (nobody is). Criticising SQ doesn't mean criticising you or Singaporeans in general. It means that there are people who would like to see SQ doing things better.

To Air2000 I would like to say: I hope you'll not be sacked as SQ can use some criticism to improve their service.


P.S. I don't work in the airline industry.

RE: You Need To Go To Woodbridge

Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:42 am

gundu: enough dear... he's probably laughing himself silly at this attention he's getting. no need to advertise your pt of view, in our hearts we all agree with you (at least many of us do) =) btw do you also work in sq?

RE: SQ Guilty Of Copying BA's First Class

Mon Dec 06, 1999 9:21 am

No,I don't work in SQ,my mom does.

Posts: 183
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 1999 5:10 am

Come On Peoople!

Mon Dec 06, 1999 11:41 am

ok i do recoigzine the fact that Airline2000 should be greatful that SQ is getting a better first class, cuse she probably flies in first class, and he is such a hipocrit, he's working for em and trying to make them a better airline, but he is bad mouthing them. but come on people, its just a fu****g first class seat! is this a topic that we should be calling people names??? but i do feel the same way that most of you do, if he has a prpblme, then he should get the hel* out of the SQ airline!!!!!


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