YV136C
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Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Thu May 15, 2003 9:29 pm

I just wanted to know if any of you knew what decision is pending at AA on starting CCS-FLL-CCS. I heard they thought about starting that route back in November 2002, but nothing since. I also heard that AA will have 5 daily flights to MIA starting in June and I always thought that FLL would have good yields since most Venezuelans traveling to Florida have homes in the Ft. Lauderdale area and a lot of them are driving to Orlando, so it would be closer to drive from FLL than MIA.
Any info is appreciated.

Luis
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luv2fly
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Thu May 15, 2003 11:04 pm

It could have something to do with the economy in CCS right now that the flight is not operating. IMHO.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
YV136C
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Thu May 15, 2003 11:09 pm

Luv2fly,

Although your point is a valid one, it doesn´t make sense because as I pointed out before AA is adding 2 more daily flights to MIA, I think it would make sense to at least make one of those flights to FLL.

Luis
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luv2fly
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Thu May 15, 2003 11:11 pm

MIA is a hub for them, makes more sense for connecting traffic for AA. Why fly point to point when you can hub and offer your whole net work of flights.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
YV136C
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Thu May 15, 2003 11:23 pm


Ah! That definitely makes more sense! Thanks!
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acvitale
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Fri May 16, 2003 1:53 am

Lets not forget that AA was primarily interested in thwarting NK in the market as to eliminate the prospect of an LCC showing up in the market.

If AA were to publically announce they were not interested in FLL-CCS they would have to release the rights to NK whom was the original party that wanted the service.

Having NK flying FLL-CCS would dilute yields on MIA-CCS, NYC-CCS, ORD-CCS and other key markets where Spirit could offer competitive connection (aka 1 stop service to CCS and non stop service).

In short for the continued health of the CCS market to AA they must either fly it or keep it tied up in dormancy without actually releasing the route or they would allow a very LLC competitior to destroy their high yields on yet another route.
 
SegmentKing
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Fri May 16, 2003 2:48 am

Albert,

what about dormancy relinquishment rights that NK can ask for?? I thought a route authority is valid for only XX months if they do not start service, such as the Continental/Delta fight into Argentina (which, if my memory serves me, both airlines no longer serve Buenos Aires..)

-n
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MAH4546
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Fri May 16, 2003 2:54 am

The Veneuzela market has been slacking, but is picking up. American Airlines will finally be back to five daily MIA-CCS flights, in addition to daily MIA-MAR service, mid-June.

FLL-CCS service was announced 10 September 2001 with a 15 December 2001 start. Then it was pushed back to 15 June '02, then 15 December '02, and then on hold indefinitley because Venezuela traffic plummeted. It is increasing again, slowly, and I do think you will see AA launch FLL-CCS by 2004.

However, it should be noted that while Ft. Lauderdale's Venezuelan population is the second largest in the United States, it is not comparable in size to Miami's. Though Ft. Lauderdale offers an easier, less congested alternative, even to those who live in the Miami area. And those that need to get to Orlando...trust me, they'll connect on one of AA's four daily MIA-CCS flights, not fly into FLL to drive another four hours (and considering MIA and FLL are only 18 miles apart, you do not save that much driving time to Orlando). Ft. Lauderdale finally did get thier Latin American connection with Aces this past December. Loads started off okay, around 50%, but are doing better now as the service is becoming more and more advertised (mostly by word-of-mouth). Aces does plan on adding Ft. Lauderdale-Medellin service in the near future. Medellin is a major Colombian business destination, in some respects even more so than Bogota, thanks to it's oil industry.
a.
 
LatinPlane
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Fri May 16, 2003 3:31 am

I believe that Santa Barbara airlines got authority as the Venezuelan carrier to serve Ft. Lauderdale from Caracas, but perhaps they never started because they would have had to wet-lease an aircraft in order to start service to the U.S. due to Venezuela's category ll status. They can't use their sole 727 on the route, which would make it more economically viable for them. The market is so depressed that the sole Venezuelan carrier flying to Miami is AeroPostal, with one daily flight, from what I understand.

 Smile LatinPlane




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MAH4546
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Fri May 16, 2003 3:41 am

The market is so depressed that the sole Venezuelan carrier flying to Miami is AeroPostal, with one daily flight, from what I understand.

Two daily flights. One to Caracas, the other goes to Maracaibo and Valencia. Four times a week MIA-MAR-VLN, three times a week MIA-VLN-MAR. However, if Veneuzuela traffic is improving slighly. Aeropostal should be back to 2x MIA-CCS, 1x MIA-MAR, 1x MIA-VLN, by December if things don't get worse. Aeropostal itself was planning on launching FLL and JFK service this year, though they got into big financial trouble recently and have held off all expansion plans until 2004.
a.
 
YV136C
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Fri May 16, 2003 3:51 am

Activale,

I had NO idea whatsoever that NK wanted that route, it sounds quite strange actually. But you are the guys that know.....

MAH,

I have done a little "market research" between friends who travel to Florida frequently and they all agree that they would much rather go to FLL than to MIA, I know I would!

Latinplane,

VH has only 1 daily flight to MIA on a wet leased 727 from Falcon Air. But the legroom on those is HUGE!!!

Luis
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YV136C
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Fri May 16, 2003 3:57 am

MAH,

You´re right, I meant to say there´s only one VH flight between CCS and MIA....
Secondly, I don´t think VH is going much anywhere else, they have really BIG financial issues and I understand the Board of Directors have twice advised Mr. Ramiz (President and Owner of VH) to shut down the airline. Their domestic traffic has plummeted 70% in the last 4 months. It would be a great shame anothe Venezuelan carrier going down.

Luis
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SegmentKing
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Fri May 16, 2003 12:24 pm

actually ACES is doing "so-so". Average load is about 65 passengers, with a mean high of 118 and a mean low of 48 (from the people who work them). I don't think ACES has had a flight over 80% full into FLL yet...

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
Guest

RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Fri May 16, 2003 12:34 pm

At one time, Spirit Airlines had wanted to build a real full-service hub at FLL.
 
scottysair
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Fri May 16, 2003 12:57 pm

I will has contract with Steve Belleme at FLL about something is goes on for ACES and I will give you it out for the details information on the load factors from last month of April and this month of May 2003. So if you would like to write email him at SBELLEME@broward.org and he will responding back to you. Thanks!!
 
MAH4546
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Fri May 16, 2003 1:47 pm

At one time, Spirit Airlines had wanted to build a real full-service hub at FLL.

They still do, AFAIK, by adding Latin American and Caribbean service. And it's no secret they'd do FLL-LAX/OAK/LAS in a heartbeat if it were not for the fact the MD80s can't go more West than DEN. I definitley would look for them to add alot to FLL in the future. They are private, but they claim to be making a nice profit. They should be considering how little they spend maintaing thier planes (I am sure they are mechaniclly safe, but my god, they need to do something about those interiors!) and how full they are (I never once thought my 8am Tuesday morning from Ft. Lauderdale to Detroit would be full during the off-season).
a.
 
YV136C
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Fri May 16, 2003 9:56 pm

How did Spirit think they were going to operate the Caribbean routes (especially CCS?). I mean, what equipment? We all know there is no way they´re flying MD-80´s over water for 3 hours.

Luis
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chepos
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Fri May 16, 2003 10:17 pm

Dutch Caribbean operates the MD-80 (I think the DC-9-30 operates via Port Au Price) between Curacao and MIA (the flight is slightly shorter than Caracas - MIA), the MD-80 has the range to fly between FLL and CCS. If Ascerca and Avensa at one point had 737-200's flying between Venezuela and Mia then it should not be a big deal to see an MD-80 flying between FLL and CCS. Didn't Zuliana operate DC-9's between Venezuela and Miami ?
On another note I had understood NK wanted to also (in addition to CCS) start flights from FLL to PTY, SJO, SDQ and I might be recalling wrong but even AUA,
Chepos
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SegmentKing
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Fri May 16, 2003 10:25 pm

Scotty,

Steve does not appreciate you posting his full name and e-mail on websites. He is too busy to deal with 9000 questions from people here.

I know the manager of the ground handler here in FLL.... if you don't believe me, then that's fine. But please, do not list people's full names and e-mails on this website. It's quite rude. I'd personally be *extremely* pissed off if someone posted my work e-mail here, which is why you only get my Yahoo! account.

BCAD folks are very busy and enjoy doing their jobs, they do NOT enjoy getting flooded with e-mails, especially if it is spam (which does come from this site...)

-nate
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luv2fly
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Fri May 16, 2003 10:28 pm

Chepos

No you are correct, they were going to launch all these Caribbean destinations. Maybe it was the war and or the state of the economy that prevented the start of these services. I never heard anything about the reasons why, does anyone know?
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
SegmentKing
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Fri May 16, 2003 10:35 pm

they were expecting a new capital injection and it did not go through... spirit is in some deep #$*&$#@ right now. A bunch of MD-80s are coming in soon, and no where to fly them.

-n
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luv2fly
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Fri May 16, 2003 10:42 pm

Are they going to increase departures on any routes they already run? Also have they thought to add maybe one or two of the Caribbean destinations instead of all of them.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
SegmentKing
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Fri May 16, 2003 10:48 pm

Before Spirit even considers expanding at FLL, they need a new station manager. Their last manager was recently fired (and not a good departure)... will not go into details (we managers NEVER gossip :: tongue in cheek :: Smile. Dana, Michelle, and Dan have their hands full for the time being.

spirit has a lot of reorganization to do before they add more destinations... and I don't mean adding inflight services... I'm talking a total cleaning house over in Miramar...

-n
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chepos
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Fri May 16, 2003 11:04 pm

By the way I second what has been told about Spirit's aircraft cabin- about 2 weeks ago I flew them between Orlando and San Juan . The MD-82 looked great from the outside (new c/s and everything) but once you passed spirit plus the plane looked like it was going to fall into pieces. Those overhead compartments were filthy let's not mention the carpets and side panels.
Chepos
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luv2fly
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Fri May 16, 2003 11:07 pm

Wow I am sorry to hear that, I use to live in MI before moving to CLE area and of course Spirit has a big operation in the DTW market. And they are able to fly side by side with NWA. I wish they would get there house in order before expanding as I do believe they have a market and should keep it.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
scottysair
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Fri May 16, 2003 11:29 pm

SegmentKing,

What happening with Spirit old manager at FLL was got fired and it was not good for departure flight out of FLL? Why you did tell me once before? I still think about of Spirit will might expanding again for new nonstop out of FLL anytime soon? Do Spirit need get orders on those new aircraft? Well, talk ya later!

Regards!

Scott W.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Sat May 17, 2003 3:35 am

All of Spirit's MD80s are over water capable. They have liferafts, vests, etc. They fly MCO/FLL-SJU and I am sure they fly the much quicker over water route on FLL-MYR/ACY/LGA and other Florida-NE routes.

Segment, I didn't know Spirit is in major financial trouble. They continually report good business and that they are in the black. Then again, they are private, so they can hide a lot from us.
a.
 
YV136C
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Sat May 17, 2003 5:40 am

Chepos,

If I´m not mistaken (and I shouldn´t be!) Zuliana flew 727´s to MIA not DC-9´s. Indeed Avensa and Aserca used 732´s but many people were hesitant to fly on those fearing "spotty maintenance". I don´t think I would have gone on those either as the 732 is my least favorite plane....!!

MAH4546 , thanks a lot for all the info, it´s always good to know who´s really informed here......

Luis
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SegmentKing
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Sat May 17, 2003 5:47 am

yes, Vic is no longer with Spirit. I personally found him easy to work with and always willing to help out, especially us little guys. In regards to Spirit, they're 'barely breathing' per se. They aren't really a "low cost" carrier because they fly to major airports...

Spirit will continue to do OK, but the cash is evaporating quickly and it's not being replenished as fast.

-n
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chepos
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RE: Whatever Happened To AA´s CCS-FLL?

Sat May 17, 2003 7:23 am

I dont know if Zuliana Dc-9's visited MIA for maintenance or some other purpose but they were frequent visitors cause I did see the DC-9's a couple of times - I even have one on video .
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Chepos
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