zrs70
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Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 3:13 am

Some US airlines have fortress hubs that are tried and true. (DL at ATL, UA at ORD, etc).

Two questions here:

1) Which airlines had fortress hubs in which cities, and then sold out in the face of competition (example: CO at DEN)

2) Which airlines tried to set up hubs in which cities, but they only lasted a handful of years (ex: TW at ATL, or AA at BNA)
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
goingboeing
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 3:30 am

Eastern at MCI
Braniff 1 at MCI
Braniff 2 at MCI
USAir at MCI
Vanguard at MCI
 
MxCtrlr
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 3:42 am

Eastern at MCI
Braniff 1 at MCI
Braniff 2 at MCI
USAir at MCI
Vanguard at MCI


Do I detect a slight pattern here?  Yeah sure There looks like there might be something there but I'm not sure what  Wink/being sarcastic!

How about adding:
USAirways at BWI?
Northwest at MEM?

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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prosa
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 3:53 am

How about adding:
USAirways at BWI?
Northwest at MEM?


MEM is still a hub for NW.
I'd add AA at RDU.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 3:54 am

HP will be shutting its Columbus hub soon.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
sllevin
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 3:55 am


Eastern at MCI
Braniff 1 at MCI
Braniff 2 at MCI
USAir at MCI
Vanguard at MCI


You forgot:

TWA at MCI!  Smile

Steve
 
DIA
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 4:01 am

1. Western Pacific at COS
2. Western Pacific at DIA
3. Markair at Stapleton
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 4:02 am

add to those:

DL @ LAX
DL @ FRA

CO @ LAX
CO @ GSO

AA @ BNA
AA @ SJC

UA @ MIA

BA @ LGW
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deltairlines
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 4:07 am

Also, DL at PDX.

Jeff
 
zrs70
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 4:17 am

Airline by airline:

() indicates mini hub or focus city

many have been mentioned already, I am just on a stream of thought:

EA: MCI, CLT
US: DAY, SYR, BWI, (MCI), (IND)
RC: PHX, (ATL)
NW: (BOS)
AA: BNA, RDU
UA: CLE
TW: ATL, MCI
CO: DEN, GSO
NY: (RDU)
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strickerje
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 4:28 am

Northwest still has a hub in MEM. It's not even just a regional hub either... they have flights to DC, NY, and the New England cities, and also to PHX, DEN, LAS, and the West coast.

Perhaps we can soon add USAirways at PIT.

How about Delta's mainline hub at DFW? Due to competition from American, it's mostly CRJ's operated by ASA, Comair, and Skywest. Mainline Delta only goes to the big cities on or near the West coast, the major Florida cities, and the Delta hubs (ATL, CVG, SLC), with very few others in between. They don't even have widebodies there anymore (or if they still do have a few now, they won't in a few months).
 
prosa
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 4:30 am

US: DAY, SYR, BWI, (MCI), (IND)

US inherited the hubs at DAY and SYR when it acquired Empire. The scaling back of those hubs in subsequent years wasn't really a matter of failure, or the hubs not working.

"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
strickerje
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 4:45 am

Wow, this thread is growing fast... When I started to type my reply regarding NW's MEM hub, reply #2 was the last on the list! Sorry for the redundant post there.
 
727LOVER
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 4:48 am

NW had a small hub at TPA in the mid 80s. 4 banks of 6 flights, but it still fit in the definition of a HUB. Shut down after the RC merger.
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Tom in NO
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 4:50 am

Pride Air at MSY.

Tom in NO (at MSY)
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northwestair
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 4:53 am

I think MEM is our best Hub as for On-time Performance. The local Traffic isn't there.
I don't care who you fly just as long as you fly
 
strickerje
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 4:54 am

Oh yeah, that reminds me. US Airways Express had a regional hub at MSY. Among other Southeastern cities, JAN, my hometown, got daily Beech 1900 service from there. That was discontinued about 2 or 3 years ago.
 
IAHERJ
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 5:00 am

How about:

AA at BNA
AA at RDU

CO at GSO
CO at DEN

DL at SEA
NW at SEA
UA at MIA
UA at EWR
UA at CLE

Not all of these hubs were necessarily not successful but closed/scaled back for various reasons. Future major scale backs I forsee are:

UA at IAD
UA at DIA

US at PIT

CO at CLE

DL at SLC

NW at MEM

Midex everywhere
Actually flown: EMB-120 EMB-145 B717 B737 B757 B767
 
cmb320
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 5:03 am

CO in El Paso. I think that might have been started in the 80's?
 
zrs70
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 5:20 am

Prosa,

Point well taken. BUT FWIW, DAY was not an UR hub, but rather a PI hub.

Another interesting point has been raised...

Just because a hub closes down, it does mean it was an unsuccessful hub. If US closes the PIT hub, I would hardly call the decades of hub status there a failure.
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727LOVER
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 5:24 am

IAHERJ, DL at SEA??????????

I think you mean DL at PDX.
Love Trumps Hate
 
2cn
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 5:26 am

With UA's huge cut at LAX, would it be considered a successful or unsuccessful hub now?
 
srbmod
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 5:50 am

"Focus Cities" aka minihubs:
AirTran @ PIT
Vanguard @ ATL
Valujet @ IAD (downsized in the restart)
 
redngold
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 5:52 am

I wouldn't say that the TWA hub at MCI was unsuccessful; rather, TWA decided to move its hub to STL to consolidate operations. Prior to that, TWA *owned* MCI.


redngold
Up, up and away!
 
goingboeing
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 5:54 am

Prior to that, TWA *owned* MCI.

Actually they "owned" MCI right up to the day that those red bellied war birds showed up....
 
luv2fly
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 5:56 am

OK how about Pro Air at DET
And WN at DET

I believe EA had a mini HUB at BWI

Also the dreaded NW at MKE

You can cut the irony with a knife
 
caravelle
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 6:03 am

OSL didn't work at all - too bad.

caravelle
Trains and boats and planes....
 
UN_B732
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 6:06 am

Business Express@BOSTON.
CommutAir@ALBANY, their loads are horrible.
-Transaero Boeing 737-200
What now?
 
zrs70
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 6:09 am

UN:

I think that BizEx at BOS did work. The airline, itself, did not!
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727LOVER
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 6:38 am

I don't remember EA having a hub at BWI. They had one at PHL.
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ord
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 7:06 am

Don't forget United's mini-hub in Orlando in the early 1990s. They had about 50 departures a day.

And up until about 1984 Delta had a significant operation in Chicago, operating about 80 departures per day. Ironically, they scaled way back right after their new terminal at O'Hare was completed.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 7:11 am

How about TWA in ATL
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
jsnww81
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 9:28 am

Continental's Denver pullout was probably the biggest hub abandonment in history. After acquiring Frontier in 1986-1987 they controlled two of Stapleton's five concourses. Gradually they put all their mainline flights in Concourse C and concentrated Express operations in D. By the time Stapleton shut down in 1995, Concourse D was basically deserted, except for a few Markair and TWA flights.

Midway Airlines (the first one) tried to open a second hub at PHL right before they shut down in 1991. Some analysts say the PHL expansion was the final nail in Midway's coffin.
 
HlywdCatft
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Hubs That Didnt Work

Sat May 17, 2003 10:00 am

AA at DTW in the 70s before RC moved in

USAirways at MCO- remember the Metrojet service there, the only cities served from MCO by US now is PIT, CLT, PHI and DCA.


NW at MKE? might be coming back slowly, I see that later this year NW will be flying direct MKE-MCO daily non stop, that came as a surprise. I saw it on the MCO website.

Simmons Air at DTW (went from Republic Express to American Eagle)

NW at ORD

As for UA at DIA- UA is keeping that, it is a very profitable hub
 
TLHFLA
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 10:34 am

NW had a hub at TPA in the 80's? Where did they fly to nonstop? Also, does anyone know some of the destinations for UA's early 90's MCO hub?

I never though that TPA was a hub city. US had several flights to and from TPA in the 90's and there were rumors that they might try to start a small hub there, but I never could see that happening as TPA is not a good location geographically for a hub.
Bill in ATL
 
luv2fly
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 10:57 am

One route out of TPA was MBJ.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 10:59 am

EA had a hub in STL in the 70's.

Pete
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TLHFLA
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 11:02 am

Yeah. I remember the route to MBJ. It was operated with a 727-200. There was also a route to CUN operated that was operated with either a DC-9 or 727 depending on the season. These flights lasted for a long time and were not discontinued until fairly recently, if I am not mistaken. I think at one time NW had flights to BOS from TPA, but I am not sure.
Bill in ATL
 
luv2fly
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 11:19 am

I believe you are right as BOS was also a mini hub for NWA as was DCA
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
chepos
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 11:28 am

Gulfstream International was trying to build up presence in the West Inidies by basing some planes at San Juan - that lasted for about 2 years or less.
Chepos
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STT757
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sat May 17, 2003 11:57 am

UAL @ MCO

UAL @ MIA

DL @ FRA

NWA @ DCA

NWA @ BOS

US @ CLE

US @ DAY

US @ IND

US @ Syracuse

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
ord
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Sun May 18, 2003 6:12 am

United's Orlando mini-hub of the early 1990s served many Florida cities (such as Miami, Tampa, Ft. Lauderdale, West Palm Beach) and many east coast destinations (like Newark, LaGuardia, Washington) nonstop. Also included were the hubs (Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles and San Francisco).

Most of the Florida flights came in from other destinations, and I once flew Orlando-Ft.Lauderdale on a United DC-10.
 
azo
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Mon May 19, 2003 6:22 am

Where did WN fly to out of DET? I did not know it was enough flights to be called a "mini-hub."
Kalamazoozoozoozoozoozoozoo
 
timf
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Mon May 19, 2003 6:26 am

I don't think you could call any Southwest cities hubs, because they use a point-to-point system rather than a hub system. There may be cities with more flights than others, but none are technically hubs. In this case, there might be cities/airports that didn't work for Southwest, but not hubs like the topic says.
 
trey
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Mon May 19, 2003 7:59 am

did UA abandon MIA for thier S. Amer. routes? I was not aware of that. Used to see 747 and such down there, is that no longer?
 
N766UA
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Mon May 19, 2003 8:21 am

US @ CLE??

US Air never tried to hub Cleveland.
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EA CO AS
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Mon May 19, 2003 11:14 am

Actually, EA's hub at MCI was a successful operation. It was eliminated in a round of severe cost-cutting measures though.

If you want a good example of "When Good Hubs Go Bad," check out the end of T2 at PHX. US had ambitions of operating a hub there and built up a large gate facility, only to dismantle it in short order.
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tekelberry
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Mon May 19, 2003 11:35 am

NW at MKE? might be coming back slowly, I see that later this year NW will be flying direct MKE-MCO daily non stop, that came as a surprise. I saw it on the MCO website.

Yes, you are correct.

Starting Jul 01 - (nonstop)

MKE-

BOS
LGA
LAX
LAS
MCO
DCA
 
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coronado
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Mon May 19, 2003 11:37 am

RC - Las Vegas within a year or two of the acquisition by Republic of the Hughes Air West ''yellow banana' line they started scaling back their operations at LAS.
The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
 
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RE: Hubs That Didn't Work....

Mon May 19, 2003 11:38 am

I'd say SJC for AA... though I'm not sure they ever intended it for anything but a focus city; their presence is still very strong, and I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of traffic in and out of there is O&D.