FlyPNS1
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No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Wed May 21, 2003 10:52 pm

This fall and winter AA will reconfigure the 757 and A300 back into standard seating configuration (no MRTC), in order to make AA more competitive in high-volume low yield markets.

Here's the quote: American will also be reintroducing standard seating to 23 percent of its fleet so that it can offer competitive fares across more seats in leisure and vacation markets. The new pitch will ultimately be found on all of the carrier's 140 Boeing 757 and 34 Airbus A300 aircraft.

"We are still retaining our popular More Room Throughout Coach product on more than 75 percent of our fleet, which translates into approximately 80 percent of our daily departures," Arpey said. "I also want to be clear that we are not creating an airline-within-an-airline because we don't believe a successful formula for that concept yet exists. We are simply returning to standard seating in those markets where customers tell us price -- and seat availability at low prices -- is predominantly how they choose a carrier."


http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030521/daw018_1.html

 
Boeing757/767
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Wed May 21, 2003 11:16 pm

Great. 757s are about all I fly with AA. And I choose them SPECIFICALLY for the MRTC.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
BestWestern
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 12:01 am

Only doing this in part of the fleet will cause confusion amongst the travelling public as to which aircraft they are on, etc... I can see AA eventually eliminating MRTC.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
aa61hvy
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 12:14 am

Damn, I am taking an AA 757 to SJO this year, it should be splendid, 4.5 hrs in a 757. My knee's hit the seat already in MRTC.
Go big or go home
 
artsyman
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 12:19 am

Only doing this in part of the fleet will cause confusion amongst the travelling public as to which aircraft they are on, etc... I can see AA eventually eliminating MRTC.
************

I agree, releases like this are vague, and cover you in that no one will even know what flight has them and what doesnt. For a customers like yourself who travels AA specifically for this, it will be tough. Are they converting the entire 757 / A300 fleet, or just some of them ?
 
SegmentKing
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 12:28 am

the entire fleet... including the TW 757s...

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
BestWestern
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 12:36 am

There have been many discussions here before about MRTC, and the arguement always came back to "will people pay more for extra legroom?"
and "do the majority of customers know about MRTC?" the answer was no, and no...

Half eliminating the product will mean those who may have paid more now not doing so, as the vast majority dont know their 737s from an 757.... What about routes that are mixed service?


You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
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clickhappy
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 12:39 am

if you need more room, upgrade.
 
CactusA319
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 2:04 am


Of course they have to cut out MRTC....how else can they make money off the "I flew American for $89" ad campaign they have going right now?

It's only a matter of time before they put the seats back into the aircraft.


 
swaluvfa
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 3:03 am

Shouldn't they do it to the MD-80s instead of the 757?

Won't this cost them a lot of money in maintinence?

Seems like a poor decision
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 3:30 am

This was as inevitable as the seasons.... MRTC was a failure from the start.

IMO, it's only a matter of time before MRTC remains only for the international fleet.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Boeingfan
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 7:32 am

The 757 and A300's are first, the other fleet equipment will be next. It is a phased approach. You get what you pay for. No one is willing to spend the extra $50 ea. way for the extra inch.

Adding 12 seats to 757, and 16 to A300's. (Exit rows will still have MRTC, though limited/no recline at first exit row.)

This will make the premium product even more premium, and hopefully push more revenue to the front cabin, as people begin to pay for it or not? Next, possible removal of additional "F" or "J" seating for more "less room" seating. Premium seating "P" class will only be available on LHR/AA), Japan">NRT routes, as the two class service takes over on trans atlantic route 763's.

With out product differentiation, why not fly Southwest or AirTran? They pack'em in even closer then the new "less room" seating.

Price, price, price, is the market driver today.

No one is complaining though, fewer flight attendants too. But no more food in "Y." (Unless over 4 hours.)

This is good news to stock holders AMR shares were up today, when most others were down. The market likes the idea, the people will buy it, happy days are on there way. Plus advance bookings are up, AA will make the turn around, and be profitable soon!

Good on Arpey, he knows what will sell in the realistic market place where real estate is money. You can increase ASM's with out purchasing new equipment or hiring additional staff. DL still pack more pax into their planes.

Next, M80's, 767's, 738's. The 777 may still continue to offer the premium MRTC product in the forward "Y" cabin?

Great new, great day, about time!! It is about time. The market is gone for the former MRTC product, too bad. But, action to reality of the market place is great news.

(Provides more opportunity to hop on as a non rev too!) 2cents Bf
 
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STT757
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 7:39 am

The public loved it, the news covered it, and AA boasted about MRTC.

Problem was for it to work either the other airlines would have had to follow suit to keep FF's from defecting to AA, or..

Or AA passengers would have had to pay more for the MRTC,

Neither happened.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030521/airlines_american_4.html
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
clipper471
Crew
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 8:42 am

AAARRRRRRGHHHHHH! You know the rest of the fleet isn't far behind.
 
Guest

RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 10:44 am

>>With out product differentiation, why not fly Southwest or AirTran? They pack'em in even closer then the new "less room" seating.<<

WN has 33" pitch. AirTran matches AA in coach but has 40-42" pitch in biz compared to 38" in domestic F.
 
aa61hvy
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 11:10 am

Fly American Airlines with their "Less room throughout coach" LRTC
Go big or go home
 
flyboy36y
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 12:04 pm

Well,

I think that I have no more reason to be exclusive to AA. I think I'll be casjing in my miles soon...
 
AIR757200
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 12:15 pm


Less room? AA is simply adding back the seats they took out for MRTC, they are going back to the standard before the program. Less room than the premium layout yes, but not less than before.
 
aa61hvy
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 1:12 pm

Well less for me, I have grown since the last time I flew a non MRTC plane
Go big or go home
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 1:17 pm

Could this be construed as a victory for UA's Economy plus layout? UA always incisted that MRTC took too much capacity from aircraft. Econ Plus was a balance between rewarding the premium passengers and having the available seats to sell at a discount.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
BestWestern
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 6:05 pm

No, its a victory for DL and CO, who decided not to follow UA and AA down this stupid path.

Lowest permissable fares are calculated on variable costs of the service divided by number of seats. More seats = lower fares. Ryanair and Easyjet with their 29'' seat pitch are the global leaders in high density low fares, making southwest look like a premium product.

I wonder if Song will enter the AA dominated caribbean market from JFK with an all economy product - which would be perfect for the low yielding markets?
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
ord
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RE: Boeingfan

Thu May 22, 2003 10:49 pm

The press release makes it very clear that only the 757s and A300s will add seats. You mention the other aircraft adding seats in a phased approach. Do you know something the rest of us don't?
 
sllevin
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 10:56 pm

I'd rather see even tighter Y pitch but additional seats up front for upgrade!

But that'll never happen  Sad

Steve
 
goingboeing
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 11:03 pm

With out product differentiation, why not fly Southwest or AirTran? They pack'em in even closer then the new "less room" seating.

From the Southwest web site:

We would like to dispel the myth that our airline is, perhaps, cramming more seats into our airplanes. Southwest is actually working hard to provide you with more room in each "edition" of the 737 that we have ordered. You see, even though most of our flights are short, your comfort is still of the utmost importance to us. That is why, when we designed our aircraft interiors, we worked hard at maintaining a comfortable distance or pitch7 between your seat and the seat in front of you. The chart below shows the number of seats in each Boeing 737 model we fly as compared to the number of seats that airplane would hold if we were less concerned with your comfort. It will also give you an idea of what you can expect in terms of leg room.8

Model - Maximum Capacity- Southwest Capacity - Average Pitch

737-700* 149 137 33.25


737-500 132 122 32.57


737-300 149 137 32.36


737-200 132 122 32


*The 737-700 is the newest addition to our fleet, and we have lots more on the way. This beautiful new airplane not only flies quieter, farther, and more fuel efficiently, it is roomier. Our –700 seats are pitched at 33-34 inches (and even farther apart at exit rows); but, when we designed its beautiful new interior, we removed the cabin dividers and selected an innovative new seat design. So, when you fly on one of our newer planes, you will actually feel like your seat is pitched at 35 or more inches—the same amount of space in the first- and business-class sections on some airlines! Our –700s have more overhead bin space, too!


 
AIR757200
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Thu May 22, 2003 11:29 pm

Ord,

It's all speculation in regards to the entire fleet on this site. As you stated, the press release indicates only the B757/A300 fleet right now.

This may have been mentioned already above;

Schedule:

A300: 34 aircraft beginning this fall, to be completed by "winter holiday" in December.

B757: 140 aircraft will be finished in mid-February 2004.

The work will be done at Tulsa. This equals to 23% of the fleet.

*****Quote from Aprey: "I also want to be clear that we are not creating an airline-within-an-airline because we don’t believe a successful formula for that concept yet exists. We are simply returning to standard seating in those markets where customers tell us price – and seat availability at low prices – is predominantly how they choose a carrier."


Soure: AMR Corp.
 
svenvdm
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Fri May 23, 2003 12:04 am

I really enjoyed the 'More Room' program but if the majority of the traveling public doesn't base their purchase decision on it then there's no need to give away revenue by keeping it.
 
blink182
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Fri May 23, 2003 12:45 am

What seems to be forgotten is that these are only flights to high yield tourist destinations in the carribean, bahamas etc and it just so happens that the A300s and 757s are most commonly used for those. MD-80s, 737s, 767s, and 777s are unaffected by this.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
ual777contrail
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Fri May 23, 2003 12:51 am

BLINK,
You bring up a good point, UAL on their 2 class 777's don't have the econ plus. When you serve Hawaii and markets of low yield then you need more seats.

ual 777 contrail
 
aa61hvy
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Fri May 23, 2003 12:59 am

But AA uses the 757 trans con. to Canada and ANC and thats rough as hell for the people in coach.
Go big or go home
 
Trvlr
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Fri May 23, 2003 2:58 am

Perhaps AA will replace 757s with 737-800s in the future on transcon routes.

Aaron G.
 
ba319-131
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Fri May 23, 2003 3:13 am

It was only a matter of time before MRTC vanished.With economy seat's being removed it increases ASM costs,so in reality you want to increase ticket prices to cover the loss of revenue.Not every passenger is willing to pay extra for legroom,though some are.UA's Economy Plus and BA's WTP work,but they are only a small % of seats avaliable.

AA should have followed UA and produce a Economy Plus product.

In time expect all AA domestic aircraft to revert to the original seating layouts.
111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Fri May 23, 2003 5:23 am

I have grown since the last time I flew a non MRTC plane

Did your voice finally change, too?  Big grin

Seriously, though...STT757 said it best. AA had a great idea, but unfortunately customers weren't willing to pay a premium to have MRTC available to them. Consequently, AA is faced with having to reconfigure the planes to the way they once were.

Price is the main driver nowadays for the vast majority of travelers.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
JC5280
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Fri May 23, 2003 6:24 am

This is great news for United! I know our stock is up a bit for this reason.


Thanks AA!
 
Guest

RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Fri May 23, 2003 6:50 am

Goingboeing:

Southwest should also state: "We only have 149 seats on our -300/-700 aircraft because we don't believe it's worth it to pay a fourth flight attendant to cram in the extra row or two that we'd like to."

On another note,
Apparently American is considering keeping MRTC on some B757. Those markets where business travel is the primary seat-filler will keep MRTC. The routes where people only care about fare and not comfort (vacation routes, leisure travel) will be those to receive the standard pitch aircraft.

American is working on a way to indicate at time of booking whether or not the flight features MRTC.
 
contrails
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Fri May 23, 2003 7:18 am

This was inevitable. I've been waiting since 9/12/01 for the announcement. I'm surprised it's taken so long.

I expect more of this in the coming months. After all, it's money that's most important, not customer comfort.



Flying Colors Forever!
 
Guest

RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Fri May 23, 2003 7:23 am

After all, it's money that's most important, not customer comfort.

The customers have said money is more important to them (airfares) rather than comfort.
 
ScottB
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Fri May 23, 2003 8:07 am

N951U:

Read more carefully, Southwest DOES NOT put 149 (the maximum) seats in its -700's, it puts 137; i.e. two fewer rows.
 
N777UA
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Fri May 23, 2003 10:19 am

United does have E+ on the Hawaii 777s. I flew a 777 LAX-HNL & back last summer, was in E+ both ways.
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Fri May 23, 2003 11:04 am

Well, Last time I flew AA, It was on a Super 80, and Super 90 (MD-90)

I didn't notice anything on the Super 80, but that is because I have skinny legs, and My legs never hit the seats on 31" Pitch anyway. Then again, how many MD80s had MRTC in 6/2000
Puhdiddle
 
clipper471
Crew
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RE: No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300

Sat May 24, 2003 12:21 pm

I always went with AA since MRTC. It was great. Can't say I would try to book AA now, though, if it means their pitch is the same as others. Will have to go with another factor.