Ezra
Topic Author
Posts: 474
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2000 8:21 am

29 US-LON Gateways?

Tue May 27, 2003 6:09 am

I saw in another post that there are 29 US-London gateways allowed under Bermuda 2. I was trying to make a list of all of them:

BA serves 20 US Destinations:
  1. Atlanta

  2. Baltimore

  3. Boston

  4. Chicago O'hare

  5. Dallas/Ft. Worth

  6. Denver

  7. Detroit

  8. Houston

  9. Los Angeles

  10. Miami

  11. Newark
  12. New York JFK

  13. Orlando

  14. Philadelphia

  15. Phoenix

  16. San Diego

  17. San Francisco

  18. Seattle

  19. Tampa

  20. Washington D.C.


  21. Other carriers with service to London from cities not served by BA include:
    American:
  22. Raleigh

  23. St. Louis

  24. Continental:
  25. Cleveland

  26. Delta:
  27. Cincinnati

  28. Northwest:
  29. Minneapolis

  30. U.S. Airways:
  31. Charlotte

  32. Pittsburgh


That's still only 27 cities. Does anyone know what the other two are, and who serves the routes?

Thanks,

Ezra.


[Edited 2003-05-26 23:12:39]
 
YoungDon
Posts: 496
Joined: Thu May 31, 2001 9:33 am

RE: 29 US-LON Gateways?

Tue May 27, 2003 6:37 am

Las Vegas with Virgin is one of them, not sure of the other.

Don
 
deltairlines
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RE: 29 US-LON Gateways?

Tue May 27, 2003 7:01 am

Anchorage is the other...currently no one flies London-Anchorage though.

Jeff
 
dutchjet
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RE: 29 US-LON Gateways?

Tue May 27, 2003 7:07 am

Interesting, DeltAirlines........I remember when Western tried DC10 service on the HNL-ANC-LGW and ANC-LGW routes, I think that the flights operated 2 or 3 times per week, and were not a success. Didnt BA fly Tokyo-Anchornage-London until the updated versions of the 742 and the 744 became available; did BA transport pax between ANC and London, or was Anchorage considered a fuel stop only?
 
donder10
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RE: 29 US-LON Gateways?

Tue May 27, 2003 7:10 am

Good spot,Don!
JAL cargo currently from LHR-ANC with the 742.
 
deltairlines
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RE: 29 US-LON Gateways?

Tue May 27, 2003 7:20 am

I think passengers could get off at ANC, but I'm pretty sure the primary purpose was a fuel stop. I know a person who once flew to Tokyo from LHR with BA and he told me that his only time to the states was when they refueled at ANC.

Jeff
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: 29 US-LON Gateways?

Tue May 27, 2003 7:22 am

Hmm, this thread reminds me.... we haven't seen much of the semiannual "USA/UK Meet to Liberalize Aviation Treaty" bullsh!t this year.

Guess nowadays they dont have the time/money to even act like they're attempting to change it.  Sad
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
jmc1975
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RE: 29 US-LON Gateways?

Tue May 27, 2003 7:26 am

In the early and mid-1990s, American flew Nashville-LGW nonstop.
.......
 
747firstclass
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RE: 29 US-LON Gateways?

Tue May 27, 2003 7:32 am

I would say with absolute certainty that if there should be merger in any way involving BA and VS there will most certainly be negotiations between the US and UK. I would also think that if there is any kind of airliine consolidation in either the US or Europe there will also be negotiations between the US and UK.
Otherwise BA will forever be sitting on the sidelines without an effective alliance. If none of those things happenthe status quo will remain in effect ad nauseum.
 
jjbiv
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RE: 29 US-LON Gateways?

Tue May 27, 2003 10:36 am

Do the 29 "gateway cities" include scheduled cargo flights?

joe
 
MAH4546
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RE: 29 US-LON Gateways?

Tue May 27, 2003 12:17 pm

Yes, the 29 gateways include scheduled cargo flights if I am not mistaken. Also, if a gateway is being unused, then a secondary gateway from a gateway city can be used. For example, if no one is flying Pittsburgh-London, then someone can fly Ft. Lauderdale-London no questions asked. Same with Oakland-London. I'm pretty sure it works that way, not 100% though.
a.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: 29 US-LON Gateways?

Tue May 27, 2003 12:23 pm

On that note, does EWR and JFK count as 1 gateway or 2? I know some markets have dual designation: JFK/EWR, IAD/BWI, MIA/FLL and SFO/OAK. So is that 4 cities or 8? This point has always confused me a bit when trying to tally actual gateways.
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
SAA-SAL
Posts: 345
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2000 11:41 pm

RE: 29 US-LON Gateways?

Tue May 27, 2003 6:16 pm

I guess ther's an open skies agreement between the US and the UK. I thought that meant that the number of gateways was not limited to a fixed amount. Why? Limiting the number of gateways only limits the flow of goods ans passengers.
SAA B747 SP, Luxavia B747 SP
 
B747-437B
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RE: 29 US-LON Gateways?

Tue May 27, 2003 6:35 pm

ONLY the following cities may be served by US airlines from London : ANC, ATL, BOS, CLT, CHI, CVG, CLE, DFW, DTT, HOU, LAX, MIA, MSP, NYC(%), PHL, PIT(*), SFO(%), SEA, STL, WAS(%)

ONLY the following cities may be served by UK airlines from London : ATL, BOS, CLT, CHI, DFW, DEN, DTT, HOU, LAS(*), LAX, MIA, NYC(%), ORL, PHL, PHX, PIT, SAN, SFO(%), SEA, TPA, WAS(%)

ONLY the following cities may be served from Heathrow : ANC, BWI, BOS, CHI, DTT, LAX, MIA, MSP(@), NYC, PHL, SFO, SEA, WAS(%)

Some destinations are switchable with unused destinations. The other approved gateways without current service are FLL, HNL, MKC, PDX, MSY

* - LAS was approved as an additional service destination in an April 2000 modification to the agreement in exchange for PIT being approved as a US carrier gateway.

@ - Service on LHR-MSP may be operated by a US carrier only. UK carriers may not service MSP.

% - NYC includes JFK/EWR. WAS includes IAD/BWI. SFO includes SFO/OAK/SJC. SJC is considered part of SFO for the purpose of serving as a US or UK gateway city. It is not considered part of SFO for the purpose of LHR access.

=========

I know this does not address issues such as AA's RDU operations or BA's ops from LHR to PHX/SAN/DEN both of which fall under some obscure sub-clauses, but this is the overall agreement vis-a-vis gateways.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: 29 US-LON Gateways?

Wed May 28, 2003 1:45 am

SJC is considered part of SFO for the purpose of serving as a US or UK gateway city. It is not considered part of SFO for the purpose of LHR access.


B747-737B,
This is what has always confused me... AA attempted to initiate SJC-LGW service and were denied. Why?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
B747-4U3
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RE: 29 US-LON Gateways?

Wed May 28, 2003 2:36 am

Just referring back to an earlier post.

BA's LHR-ANC-NRT route did allow passengers to get on and off at ANC. I know this because I was one of them.