teahan
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Article On A380 Freighter From Air Cargo World

Sat May 31, 2003 2:29 am

A fairly interesting article on the A380F in Air Cargo World:

http://www.aircargoworld.com/features/0603_4.htm

Main points I noted:

- Lufthansa cargo is looking at both the A380F and B747F.
- Cargolux is playing wait and see.

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
airways
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RE: Article On A380 Freighter From Air Cargo World

Sat May 31, 2003 3:00 am

Thanks for the link, I haven't seen the article yet. Some opinions:

I don't see LH Cargo going for any of these planes anytime soon. They're currently looking at a lot of different types and new solutions for their aging fleet of Boeing 747-200F freighters. Anyway, the 747F is obviously too expensive right now. And I assume that the A380F will be in the same price range. I think they'll wait for another two-three years, until they're placing an order for a fleet renewal.

Cargolux was an airline which often was named as a potential A380F customer. Anyway, they have a relatively young fleet of 747s. They currently have a one-type fleet, a great advantage, in my eyes. And I just think the A380F doesn't fit well into their strategy and fleet right now. However, let's wait and see. Perhaps they're leasing some for their trunk routes. But that will probably take another ten years.

Michael
http://airsider.net
 
teahan
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RE: Article On A380 Freighter From Air Cargo World

Sat May 31, 2003 3:12 am

Airways,

ATL anticipates "two daily A380 air cargo operations by 2015 with two additional by 2025… forecasts anticipate Lufthansa to provide initial air cargo service on the Atlanta-Frankfurt route". Source: Airport Authority "A380 Operations at ATL" slideshow. While I am not saying it means anything, I don't think it was a wild guess by ATL either.

anyway, the 747F is obviously too expensive right now. . And I assume that the A380F will be in the same price range. I think they'll wait for another two-three years, until they're placing an order for a fleet renewal.

Why do you estimate the 747F and A380F should get any cheaper?

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
cedarjet
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RE: Article On A380 Freighter From Air Cargo World

Sat May 31, 2003 3:20 am

Maybe Emirates will lease A380Fs to Lufthansa and C-Lux.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
teahan
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RE: Article On A380 Freighter From Air Cargo World

Sat May 31, 2003 3:24 am

Cedarjet,

Emirates currently only has 2 A380F on order. I don't believe the upcoming order will include more than 3.

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
AvObserver
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RE: Article On A380 Freighter From Air Cargo World

Sat May 31, 2003 6:53 am

"Anyway, the 747F is obviously too expensive right now. And I assume that the A380F will be in the same price range."

I'd assume the quite significantly larger A380 would be appreciably MORE expensive, abnormal discounts notwithstanding. Anyway, I see a chance for a real horse race between the 2 makers to get these orders. Each aircraft has its' own advantages and it will be interesting to see where these cargo airlines' priorities lie. Lufthansa might go either way, though most opinions I've heard say they favor the A380F. It's interesting, however, that their passenger division has asked Boeing to study a 747 stretch (a 450 seater). This could be translated to a freighter, as well. Cargolux seems to favor the 747F, due to the loading infrastructure improvements needed for the A380F but don't count Airbus out because a sufficiently attractive offer could negate the costs of such improvements. Still, the A380F is more of a dedicated long-hauler which could limit its' attractiveness to certain carriers. It will remain the undisputed tonnage champion, however, unless Boeing dusts off their mothballed 747XSF, unlikely unless the cargo market really explodes in the next few years. Not even that can touch the A380F's cargo volume, though. Plenty of opportunity for both manufacturers with these and other carriers as the cargo market recovers; the winner will likely be the one smartest at selling their freighters.
 
airways
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RE: Article On A380 Freighter From Air Cargo World

Sat May 31, 2003 7:25 am

Why do you estimate the 747F and A380F should get any cheaper?

I didn't mean that the planes should be cheaper. But LH Cargo is telling that the 744F would be too expensive to buy for them. Of course, that's in comparison to the old 742F, which are generating money without huge lease payments right now.

Perhaps LH Cargo can agree to the price range of a 747F. But until today, they didn't see enough advantages which would justify the price.

Furthermore, I think it will be pretty hard to sell any type to LH Cargo as long as they can use their classic 747 fleet as they do today. Their 742Fs might be old and maintenance might be a bit more expensive. But the whole network is developed on this bird. I think LH Cargo has to think about a replacement for the 742s within the next years. The A380 and the 747F will be on the desk, beside other posibilites. I'm pretty sure LH Cargo will also start discussions with both, Airbus and Boeing about possible new freigthers, based on today's passenger airliners. LH Cargo has already talked about the 777F once, but they were talking about almost every possible plane.


ATL anticipates "two daily A380 air cargo operations by 2015

Well, that's possible. That's more than 10 years away. Who knows how the market will look that day. I'm sure air cargo will see many good years of growth until then, but not only. And I think two daily A380 freighters for an airport like ATL should be possible. By the way, did the report mean that these two are LH?

I think LH Cargo will think about a replacement for the 742Fs in the next years, and I hope we know more in about 5 years. That would be 2008. And even if LH Cargo would order a new type in 2010, they would sure be flying by 2015.

Again, I don't say LH Cargo won't get the A380F or the 747F. But I'm pretty sure they will not sign any orders within the next months. Right now, both planes are not really what the airline is looking for. But by 2007 or 2010, the market and the LH Cargo network could be completely different. And perhaps, the A380 is just the right plane then. As the MD-11 was the best one for LH Cargo some years ago.

Michael
http://airsider.net