sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Sun Jun 01, 2003 1:37 am

SN Brussels Airlines has concluded a new code-share agreement with Croatian Airlines on the routes from Brussels to Zagreb and Split.

From June 3, 2003 this agreement will allow SN Brussels Airlines to place its SN flight code on the Croatian Airlines’ services to Zagreb (5 times weekly) and Split (2 times weekly). The scheduled flights will be operated by Croatian Airlines using an Airbus A319 or a BAe 146 in a comfortable 2 class configuration.

With these 2 new connections, SN Brussels Airlines now offers 48 European destinations to its customers.

SN Brussels Airlines is the new Belgian full-service airline based in Brussels offering its customers a gateway to Europe and Africa. The company, which employs more than 1,800 people, currently guarantees more than 285 punctual flights a day to 48 European, 6 American and 13 African cities.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Sun Jun 01, 2003 1:48 am

Glad to see this slow and careful growth going on here.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
AF-A319
Posts: 567
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 1999 3:18 am

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Sun Jun 01, 2003 2:13 am

Excellent news for SN Brussels Airlines!
I'm really impressed by the performances of this small, but rising company!
Cheers

AF-A319
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Sun Jun 01, 2003 2:24 am

Is SNBA still loss making?
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Sun Jun 01, 2003 2:30 am

Some more expansion plans by SN Brussels Airlines:
In order to respond to the high passenger demand and loyal to its reputation of being the first airline on Africa, SN Brussels Airlines has decided it will improve its flight schedule to Abidjan (Ivory Coast). Starting on June 30, 2003, SN Brussels Airlines will fly 3 (iso 2) times a week to Abidjan. To even better serve our passengers, 2 of these 3 flights will be direct flights.


 
aviationmaster
Posts: 2151
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 3:47 pm

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Sun Jun 01, 2003 3:06 am

Do they have plans to start their own flights to North America?
 
Established02
Posts: 528
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 4:30 am

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Sun Jun 01, 2003 3:31 am

> Is SNBA still loss making?

As far as I know, the media in Belgium did not report about any profits for SN so far. Therefore...

> Do they have plans to start their own flights to North America?

As far as I know, they don't.

 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Sun Jun 01, 2003 5:12 am

x for America: I think that SN will concentrate on the codeshare with AA via ORD. This is the safest way to offer American destinations with less risks instead of flying their own airplanes to America... Does anyone know if the agreement with AA is a blockspace agreement? I don't hope so...

x about SN and being loss making: you can't expect a new airline (SN still is not even 2 years old) being profitable on such a short time in the difficult times we have now (Iraq, SARS, low yields in general). On it's short haul flights, SN offers a good service (they are even improving, not cutting service like most other airlines do). No idea about medium and long haul flights... I believe that SN is goign to introduce a new economy class product, after their new breakfasts... (even on a 1h flight you get for breakfast a hot croissant + a big sandwich with several drink services at the moment!!).

Regards
Frederic

[Edited 2003-05-31 22:25:41]
 
bobrayner
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Sun Jun 01, 2003 5:19 am

Is SNBA still loss making?
Last year they claimed a net loss of €102.5m.

There's certainly no mention of profits in the user-friendly "corporate profile" on their website. If they had started making a profit, you can bet they'd be showing it to everyone.

Let us not forget that they include "Belgian touch" as one of their "brand values". This is a synonym for woefully inefficient working processes, overstaffing, inflexibility, and bureaucracy.  Smile
Cunning linguist
 
Jumbolino
Posts: 473
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 4:15 am

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Sun Jun 01, 2003 5:27 am

@Frederic, they offer a croissant and a BIG sandwich even on a 1 hour flight and this IS great but the croissant isn't hot (even the package IS)
and I don't think that they are burning too much money even they are not profitable but break even in the second year of existence would be great and I think this should be possible  Wink/being sarcastic

don't forget they have a few faviours others have not - a hub where the connections are REAL fast (ok within Schengen)
FRIENDLY most quattro lingual crew (at least tri-lingual)
and compare to the other full frill carriers a good service on-board

and good one way fares  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

should be a few plus point ....

Jumbolino.
Kind Regards, Jutta.
 
bobrayner
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:03 am

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Sun Jun 01, 2003 5:37 am

They do have excellent staff though.

Don't mention the inflight catering though. Mmm, rubbery.
And how many other airlines serve "non-dairy whitener" with their coffee/tea?
Cunning linguist
 
luchtzak
Posts: 460
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2001 1:03 am

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Sun Jun 01, 2003 6:10 am

Woww !! So much good words about SN Brussels Airlines' cabin attendants!! I should be honoured to work for SN Brussels Airlines as -let's say- a Purser !!  Wink/being sarcastic
 
Mermoz 1
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2001 10:18 am

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:07 am

SNBA is growing, quote... What a joke, SNBA is becoming the world's biggest sales agent for third companies / AZ, OU, AA, BA, TP etc.
 
TCA256
Posts: 695
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 3:59 am

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Sun Jun 01, 2003 6:31 pm

A few years ago, I wasn't a big fan of SABENA but due to my job and frequent flights within Europe from BRU, I take very often SNBA and I should admit their inflight service is becoming more and more good and FA's very friendly ! What more could I say ? Good luck and keep up the good work !

The only thing I can complain is the "time to time" bureaucracy with the ground staff, especially while being denied a window seat for some "overbooking" reasons and realizing later the flight is half empty !  Big grin
 
pothiabs
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri May 25, 2001 9:39 am

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Mon Jun 02, 2003 7:19 am

I would agree completely with Mermoz 1.

As I mentioned in an earlier post : the world's first virtual airline is in the pipeline. The deal with Croatian is just another desperate move to generate just a little bit of extra revenue. ( Won't do them any good if the deal is similar to the Maersk-deal ).

It's the "cheap good news show", and people (potential passengers) who are not familiar with the aviation world might even buy it, think the airline is going well, and be inclined to buy tickets from them. To find out that they are welcomed in a Croatian, Danish, Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, English, French, or even Swiss aircraft... Talking about corporate identity !

Next !


 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Mon Jun 02, 2003 8:11 am

Pothiabs,

what are you talking about? Can you name us a single full service airline without code share partners nowadays?

It is just a bit more obvious because SN is not in any global alliance, so iso automatically and silently having about half of its network served by 'alliance partners', SN has to make separate deals with every airline.

Not being in any alliance has one big advantage however: SN can have full code-share agreements with airlines from different alliances: (e.g. 7 UK destinations with Oneworld's BA and 6 destinations in Italy on Skyteam's Alitalia).

Besides, most of the code-share deals are agreements where BOTH carriers flies the route. Only 4 exceptions to this: Chicago (daily), Billund (2 times a day), Lisbon and Oporto (4 and 1 time a day) and Zagreb (5 times a week). So on a total of almost 300 flights a day, I wouldn't call that a virtual airline....
 
Mermoz 1
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2001 10:18 am

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Mon Jun 02, 2003 8:49 am

Pothiabs,

Ok your point that only exceptions account for external carrier flown SNBA code-shared routes... But still, SNBA is massively and like no other airline code-sharing all over they can which IMHO only masquerades the incapacity to generate pax on their own metal. I repeat that soon SNBA will be the largest general sales agent to third parties for huge pieces of market they are not capable of attracting by their own product, namely lousy BAe planes with no service...
 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Mon Jun 02, 2003 3:16 pm

Pothiabs: what a bunch of crap (again).

SNBA had to make a choice:
1) joining an alliance (which is very expensive)
2) staying 'independent', codeshare with a lot of other airlines to start a global network, and make appointments with those airlines about frequent flier miles (now you can for example earn miles on AA flight numbers).

SNBA has choosen for option 2.

What do you think is the best option for a young airline: send planes to LIS, ORD,.......?? Or sign a codeshare agreement which is less risky, and for which you don't need as much pax as if you have to fill a whole plane?

You really criticise SN about EVERY single developpement, you really built up a lot of credibility I have to say  Yeah sure
Are you from the concurrence maybe? Let's say, if you for example would be from Virgin Express (nowadays a real low cost airline with only buy on board meals/snacks/drinks, which are heavily overpriced btw, €1 for 15cl coke  Nuts), I can understand why you don't like the SN/TP codeshare to LIS. With VEX only having 2 daily rotations, and SN/TP having 4, in a much more comfortable aircraft with a very good service, good legspace, a much better product in general. Same with SN/IB to BCN/MAD: if you fly VEX, you only find cheap fares at the most difficult hours (leaving in the late evening, returning in the early morning). If you fly SN/IB, you have much more daily flights, much more comfortable aircrafts, service, and not to forget: the fare of VEX + 2x€10 for additional legspace, 2x€1 for 15cl coke, 2x€5 for a chicken pasta salad, €5 booking fee, + the fare matches about what SN/IB ask (€160). Have customers actually still a reason to fly VEX to those destinations?

and people (potential passengers) who are not familiar with the aviation world might even buy it, think the airline is going well, and be inclined to buy tickets from them.

Are there really people who still 'dear' to buy tickets from SN????  Wow!  Yeah sure
SN is currently loss making, but which airline not? I read the last figures of VEX, also not exactly what I would call 'good' (even very bad).

And to the people whining about pax going from SN to all those other airlines: ever realized the potential of for example LIS: pax can now connect in BRU on the Africa network of SN. People out of the UK can fly from a lot of different airports to BRU to connect to Africa. Also connecting pax from ZRH etc etc etc. And do not forget that SN also operates some of their own metal to BCN/MAD/FCO, and to destinations like Turin, even all flights are operated by SN, codeshared with AZ.

/Frederic
 
SN-A330
Posts: 1052
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 4:38 am

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:57 pm

I see this topic has turned into the usual pro/anti SNBA discussions like the Sabena topics used to do.... Some things never change  Insane

Now something else: how is Croatian Airlines' service ? Is it comparable to SNBA's and other European airlines ? Anyone flown them lately ?

Regards, SN-A330
I would rather be flying...
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Mon Jun 02, 2003 11:16 pm

Well,

I must say I have no idea about their inflight service, but just like SN they have a modern all-European fleet and are a young and dynamic independent national airline.

They certainly look one of the best in the former Eastbloc.... together with CSA of course.
(which is yet another of our many high standing so much envied codeshare partners)  Big thumbs up

They also have a very attractive website:

http://www.croatiaairlines.hr

 
SN-A330
Posts: 1052
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 4:38 am

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Mon Jun 02, 2003 11:22 pm

Thanks for the link Sabenapilot. I'll have a look.

Regards, SN-A330
I would rather be flying...
 
ly334
Posts: 286
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 5:34 pm

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Mon Jun 02, 2003 11:34 pm

Hi guys,


This Wednesday is the first SN flight to TLV !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


ly334
All my toughts are in aviation!!!
 
Jumbolino
Posts: 473
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 4:15 am

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Tue Jun 03, 2003 3:56 am

Yes, Pothiabs & Co will never learn it  Angry

and I've never flown Croatia (they are on my list), but I think they are not bad.

Flightline did (do ?) some wet-lease for them and I've flown Flightline (Swissair Express) a few times in 2001 and they where not bad, even I've them very good in my mind, because ALL flights arrived early the final destination (SNBA 50% early, one 5 min. delayed and one on-time so say very, very good average ok only four flights yet, but Flightline wasn't more).
and Flightline has funny pilotes (the female FA's where not the same opinion because meanwhile we where waiting for connections he praised his girls like "duty free stuff")

Jumbolino.
Kind Regards, Jutta.
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: SN To Add 2 New Destinations In Croatia...

Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:22 am

I suppose they still do, 'cos according to the published flight schedule the 2 times weekly flight to Split will be operated on BAe 146...

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