flyf15
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Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 9:30 am

 
b757300
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:03 am

I've read it was a Bonanza BE-35 if the media got it right. I'm not real good with my small aircraft types.

Anyway, here are some pictures. Take note of the last one.




"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
AM
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:19 am

I've been watching ABC 7, CBS 2 and NBC 4, and they all say it was a Bonanza BE-35, which supposedly departed VFR from Santa Monica Airport at 3:45pm PDT. According to an FAA spokesman, Santa Monica Tower instructed the Bonanza to contact SOCAL Approach at 3:52pm. No such contact occured. The crash took place at 3:55pm. According to what I've seen so far, 1 person is reported dead, presumably the pilot. At least 10 people from the apartment building are injured, 5 of them seriously.
"... for there you have been and there you will long to return."
 
cmsgop
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:36 am

Anybody got an N-# on this?
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:37 am

Is this terrorist related you think, or the plane just conk out? But why would it do a nose dive like that last picture?

I wonder who got that live picture of it nose diving.

Now it makes me feel a little uncomfortable having my apartment under the approach of MCO.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 12:36 pm

The reason why the apartment building burned so fiercely was the fact the plane's fuel tanks were mostly full of avgas when the plane nosedived into the building.
 
buckfifty
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 1:06 pm

The guy could have had a control surface failure (i.e. elevator separation, or uncontrolled asymmetric flap deployment) or any other of a million causes for it to nosedive like this.

To think that everything is connected to terrorism is to give in to terrorism.
 
luisca
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 1:06 pm

From the little information so far it seems intencionall.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 2:00 pm

If it was terrorism, why didn't he pick a more prominant target than some random little apartment building?
 
luisca
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 2:10 pm

maybe it wasnt systematic organized terrorism, just another Tampa incident (the kid crashing a bank) some unstable guy crashing his beechcraft full of fuel into some apartemnt he found. just that unfurutnatly this guy was smart and had a full tank of avfuel on his plane, making a fireball when he hit, I hope their are no other victims but the pilot.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
jhooper
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 2:11 pm

999/1000 chances this is simply an accident, albeit in an urban area. Hlywdcatft is correct; a terrorist wouldn't select a random apartment building. There are plenty of "more desirable" targets in California. Even if it was suicide or other criminal activity (which is purely speculative), that doesn't mean it's necessarily tied to organized terrorism.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 2:16 pm

I think that Luisca was being facetious.

Planes crash and the fact that one hit a building in LA should be no great shock.

From the small bit I know, it was a failure of either a wing or horizontal. The aircraft was near vertical on impact and, unless the pilot was already dead, there is no other explanation except suicide, but suicides do not tend to take others with them.

My bet will be on a separation of the stabilizer or death of the pilot in flight.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
AA737-823
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 2:22 pm

I actually don't think Luisca was being facetious- I think he's potentially correct. People go postal. Heck, maybe it was this person's apartment complex, and he was angry with the landlord. People do crazy things.

I don't think it's terror related. Just either a nut, or a poor, unfortunate victim of a mechanical failure.

Either way, my heart goes out to his family, as well as the folks who lost their homes and all they owned. Horrible experiences for lots of people, and ones that they won't soon recover from.

R
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 2:47 pm

"From the little information so far it seems intencionall. (sic)"

That line is what lead me to make my own statement. The following takes it to something else.

"maybe it wasnt (sic) systematic organized terrorism, just another Tampa incident (the kid crashing a bank) (sic) some unstable guy crashing his beechcraft full of fuel into some apartemnt (sic) he found. just (sic) that unfurutnatly (sic) this guy was smart and had a full tank of avfuel on his plane, making a fireball when he hit."

Plausible I guess, but not very likely.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
jmacias34
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 4:50 pm

Somewhere in Chicago Mayor Dayley is saying "That could have been Chicago".

Instead of suicide there is the possibility of a heart attack or other sudden incapacitating health factor.
 
L-188
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 6:13 pm

Boy twice in one day.

Up here in ANC we had a Beaver go into somebody's yard on final to Lake Hood.

Everybody came out of that one Ok though

http://www.msnbc.com/local/ktuu/m301826.asp?0ct=-302
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Guest

RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 9:11 pm

Hey, America, don't you think it is paranoia, that idea that all airplane crashes are due to terrorism... Yes, there is potential for terrorism... but again, don't put that tag on every aircraft accident...
- A Cessna crashes at KABC, terrorism... or is it a new pilot who lost control...?
- A Piper crashes at KBCD, terrorism... or pilot incapacitation...?
- A Beechcraft crashes at KCDE, terrorism... or pilot lack of IMC qualification...?
I think you watch CNN too much, or believe each line of the NY Times...
xxx
Sadly - The Arrow Air DC8 crash in Gander (1984) with soldiers on board... why was a potential terrorist action not mentioned (or covered up)...
And about TWA 800 off New York... (off course, in these days, there was... NO DANGER of terrorism in USA... right... only in Europe and the Middle East).
Wake up to reality America...
xxx
Happy contrails  Smile
(s) Skipper
 
luisca
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 9:18 pm

Why does everyone flame me, i just posted my honest oppinion and you think its sick! i bet that 3/4 of the people that have heard the news have gone to the same conclussion. Planes just DONT go near vertical like that, it is almost 99% certain that that position is intentional, a pilots instinct in a sutiation is always
A. Try to save yourself and the plane
B. Try to avoid causing any ground casualties

He didnt seem to do neither. Higly supcius.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
luisca
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 9:21 pm

Also B747Skipper
I am not from the US, and i dont believe everything that cnn says, i think CNN is one of the most irresponsable, non objective, one sided news programs, heck they were even talking about terrorism in the coulombia incident. I ussually Whatch CNN in spanish and BBC or DW or spanish Television, much better international news sources
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
Guest

RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 9:53 pm

Dear Luisca -
I appreciate your comments... but airplanes fall vertically when they enter a spin, which is a common result of flight controls mishandling by pilots near stall speed... The lack of altitude often prevents the inexperienced pilots to recover, IF they know how to recover...
xxx
A friend of mine is a dentist, has a beautiful V tail Bonanza, turbocharged, and because he has an instrument rating and passed the 1,000 hours flight time, he considers himself a close cousin of Orville and Wilbur...
xxx
Personally, I would not even check him out in my little L-21 Super Cub, my young 16-18 years old cadets are better pilots than he is... When he invites me to fly with him in his aircraft, after my first experience with him, I find excuses not to have the time to go... or I tell him to install dual controls... If he crashes on the Casa Rosada here in Buenos Aires, is because he was not flying the aircraft, but playing with his GPS or listening to his stereo in flight. The only terrorism he practices is, with his patients in the dentist chair.
xxx
If I read newspapers or watch CNN for aviation accidents, for me it is like reading cartoons or watching funny shows... what a mess in misinformation to the general public... I watch BBC too or TV5, compared to CNN or CNN en español, it is - I fully agree with you - quite different...
xxx
Unfortunately, our USA friends better quit that style of paranoia, and adopt valid anti-terrorism measures...
Thank you for expressing your opinion, Luisca  Big grin
(s) Skipper
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:21 pm

Maybe his exwife lives at the apartment.
 
pecoua
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:44 pm

Hi Everyone...

I know that the media is saying it is a Bonanza, which I am sure they know at this point...but when I first saw the last picture of it nosediving, am I the only one who thinks it looks like a Brazilia? I immediately thought of UA Express or Comair out of LAX...sorry to hear it about the accident, but glad it wasn't commercial.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sun Jun 08, 2003 12:55 am

Comair flies out of LAX? Since when? Wouldnt it be Skywest?
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sun Jun 08, 2003 12:57 am

It looks to big to be a Bonanza and i dont see the V-tail. Does take up a lot of space too burning at the apartment.

If I were to guess what kind of Beechcraft it was, I would have said at least a Queen Air.
 
fspilot747
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sun Jun 08, 2003 1:08 am

Luisca: Are you a pilot?

"Planes just DONT go near vertical like"

When you have a plane entering a spin, the result very often can be a near-vertical dive. A witness (who apparently flies small planes) said he saw the plane in a spin before it hit.

It's pretty naive to think this is related to terrorism. Planes DO fall out of the sky, where else are they going to fall from? Accidents happen. Doubtful that Osama had a role in this one.

FSP
 
pecoua
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sun Jun 08, 2003 1:15 am

HlywdCatft,

Sorry...you are right...Skywest.
 
geotrash
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RE: Small Plane Hits Apartment Building In LA

Sun Jun 08, 2003 4:20 pm

Another thing that can make a plane go into a severe dive is spatial disorientation while flying in clouds or hazy conditions. When the pilot loses external visual reference with the ground and is not IFR rated or current, or simply gets vertigo, it is possible that they can initiate a "graveyard spiral of death" dive or be inverted without knowing it. This can also be caused by instrument failure. Relatively uncommon in GA aircraft, yes but also the cause of numerous accidents. The result could very likely be a dive like the one shown in the pictures. According to weather reports, clouds and fog were in the area of the crash today.

One other point of speculation however unlikely, is that this model of Beech was known for a relatively fragile tail structure that could fail in severe turbulence or if the flight controls were moved with excessive force at high speed. An AD was issued some time ago, and the fix is a small reinforcement fitting for the V-tail root. While effective overall, the Bonanza still suffers more than it's share of inflight structural failures.

Either of these two conditions, in addition to possibilities mentioned by Skipper and others could easily cause the sort of dive witnessed before this crash. There are simply too many other, more likely facors that must first be ruled out before terrorism becomes a reasonable suspicion.

I agree with Skipper that Americans need to stop this behavior of irrational fear before we let it rob us of our freedoms and chance to enjoy life. Our biggest obstacle is to keep from dying of our own affluence. Has anyone stepped on the scale lately?