yow
Posts: 2125
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 2:47 pm

YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Mon Jun 09, 2003 12:31 pm

Ever since Jetsgo announced the introduction of $19 one-way airfares
between Ottawa and Toronto, AC has now followed suit on Tango
flights. Of course this fare is completely misleading to the
travelling public. With all the 'sucharges' the real base fare is
$59. Nevertheless, it sure is one heck of a good deal. Apparently
SG flights have been very fully since this promo began. Michel
Leblanc says that this will remain a permanent, everyday low fare. Tango's promo only seems to be for a few days.

It's amazing what a little competition will do eh.


 
flyyul
Posts: 4405
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Mon Jun 09, 2003 12:45 pm

How does ML intend to make money on a $19 base fare ?

I know before this, the YUL-YYz, YYZ-YOW were simply terrible in terms of loads..

Mark
 
dripstick
Posts: 2320
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 9:43 am

RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Mon Jun 09, 2003 12:47 pm

hmm...how many seats are available at that fare. The ones closest to the lav? Big thumbs up

Dripstick




What's another word for thesaurus?
 
yow
Posts: 2125
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RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Mon Jun 09, 2003 1:06 pm

My guess is it would be no more than 20. Again the real fare is $59. Remember, it wasn't that long ago when the seat sale fare was $99 return without any deceiving surcharges.
 
yow
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RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Mon Jun 09, 2003 10:47 pm

Interesting to also note how YUL-YYZ is being advertised at $89 one-way.
 
gmonney
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RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Tue Jun 10, 2003 1:33 am

Seems like Jetsgo is "going for the knees" when AC is a little hurt!! I think that there is great potential for a company like jetsgo to make a ton of money on these gravy runs!

Grant
Drive it like you stole it!
 
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yyz717
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RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Tue Jun 10, 2003 2:43 am

If you're running at a constant 80% load factor, it does no harm to "give away" the remaining 20% of seats (or whatever) at $19 for a short period to try & stimulate longer term traffic growth.

It's just a temporary yield management game.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
lymanm
Posts: 1100
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:30 pm

RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Tue Jun 10, 2003 3:10 am

I'm outta the loop - does SG have any type of FF plan? Not that these fares aren't enough to woo some ppl away from Aeroplan/Star, but there are some that are ridiculously loyal to their FFP airlines.
buhh bye
 
Jean Leloup
Posts: 1953
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 10:46 am

RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:10 am

I've long been bothered by the way taxes and surcharges inflate the price, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that SG or anyone else is trying to 'decieve' people with this advertising. The fact is, they ARE charging $19. All the other fees go to the airports adn the government, NavCan, etc., right? So I don't think they're really lying...$19 is all they're getting from you, as far as I can see. In all other types of business, companies advertise prices without taxes... why do we get upset when airlines do it?
Next flight.... who knows.
 
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yyz717
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RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:17 am

The only airline-induced surcharge is the fuel surcharge which SHOULD be added to the price when advertising.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
yow
Posts: 2125
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 2:47 pm

RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Tue Jun 10, 2003 1:39 pm

I can live with the NavCan and Insurance surcharges as the airlines derive not much extra benefit from them. It's the fuel that is what I deem to be deceiving. No way in hell does it cost an airline $25 one-way for fuel per person for a short hop like YYZ-YUL and regardless this is a variable expense, which SHOULD be reflected in the REAL base price of an airline ticket.
 
Jean Leloup
Posts: 1953
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RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Tue Jun 10, 2003 1:50 pm

I gotcha! Thanks, I had forgotten that fuel surcharges were (of course) determined by the airlines. I agree that they should be listed, lowered (fuel prices have gone down, right?), and also adjusted to be commensurate with the lenth of the route.
Next flight.... who knows.
 
flyyul
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RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Tue Jun 10, 2003 1:57 pm

JetsGo says its running the flights at 80%...

Anyway once again, I was in the JetsGo office at YUL, and the loads to YYZ are nowhere near 60% full for either YOW or YUL, and this includes the 1$ promotion to YYZ.

Mark
 
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yyz717
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RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Tue Jun 10, 2003 6:31 pm

JetsGo says its running the flights at 80%...

Anyway once again, I was in the JetsGo office at YUL, and the loads to YYZ are nowhere near 60% full for either YOW or YUL, and this includes the 1$ promotion to YYZ.


Jetsgo (indeed, no airline) would lie publicly about its load factors.

What does you visiting the Jetsgo office prove (or deny) regarding Jetsgo loads anyway?


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4405
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RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Wed Jun 11, 2003 2:20 am

Proves a lot.

Nobody believes JetsGo's numbers..not even their own employees.

Like you have even said, SG has no pressure to present truthful load factors since they are a private company.

Mark
 
Noise
Posts: 2036
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RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Wed Jun 11, 2003 2:49 am

Lymanm, JetsGo does have an FF plan. I think if you fly 6 or 7 flights, you get a free trip to FLL.
 
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yyz717
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RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Wed Jun 11, 2003 4:46 am

Like you have even said, SG has no pressure to present truthful load factors since they are a private company.

Yes, they do. It's called corporate ethics.

I dount ANY airline deliberately releases false load factor data.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
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RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:26 am

Corporate ethics, isn't that an oxymoron?  Big grin

Sorry Neil, corporations are notorious for fudging numbers all the time, and it gives not only big companies a bad image, but also the professions involved, including accounting. I recently saw a poll that suggested the least trusted professionals were CEO's, or they were number 2 or something to that effect. Whether this is merited or not, it shows the lack of trust general citizens have towards big business.

Jetsgo perhaps is telling the truth, but in their own way, such as putting a weight on the strong load factors to YVR and assuming YYC, giving them more weight due to the longer distance, and giving less emphasis on short sectors such as YYZ-YOW, where loads have been poor. But I am just speculating. I don't completely trust ML's figures either.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
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RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Wed Jun 11, 2003 8:01 am

Word is Jetsgo still wants 12 aircraft, and even up to 15 by the end of the year, and 18 by this time next year. All are supposed to be MD-83's, and if a second aircraft type is to be introduced after that, it will be able to cross the pond.

In my opinion, that would likely mean 757's or 767's.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
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yyz717
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RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Wed Jun 11, 2003 10:34 am

Sorry Neil, corporations are notorious for fudging numbers all the time

Not for load factors Nuno. It's a straight forward % filled of available seat miles. There's not much to fudge.

Unless there's evidence that Jetsgo somehow calculates load factor differently than other airlines, we have to assume what they report is correct.

I don't think FLYYUL's anecdotal comment about Jetsgo's reported load factors is enough to go on.  Insane





[Edited 2003-06-11 03:49:03]
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
lymanm
Posts: 1100
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:30 pm

RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Wed Jun 11, 2003 2:06 pm

Hmmmmmmmm, let us not forget how "ethical" Mike the White was when he was trying to peddle near-bankrupt Royal to C3 claiming it to be worth quite a bit more than it was...

I too would be skeptical, considering the source.
buhh bye
 
flyyul
Posts: 4405
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Wed Jun 11, 2003 2:32 pm

Neil.,

My intent is to fudge the numbers. One of my best friend's works for jetsGo, I think thats a pretty damn reliable source, the person who sees the numbers day in and day out..... but again im condemned to anecdotal info.

Mark
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
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RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Wed Jun 11, 2003 2:52 pm

It's called corporate ethics.

Corporate ethics and Michel LeBlanc should never be mentioned in the same context.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
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yyz717
Posts: 15699
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Wed Jun 11, 2003 8:00 pm

let us not forget how "ethical" Mike the White was when he was trying to peddle near-bankrupt Royal to C3

Perhaps C3 should have done better due diligence......

One of my best friend's works for jetsGo, I think thats a pretty damn reliable source, the person who sees the numbers day in and day out..... but again im condemned to anecdotal info.

Gee whiz...not just a friend, but a best friend huh? Whatever. It's still anecdotal.







[Edited 2003-06-11 13:05:31]
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4405
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Thu Jun 12, 2003 12:55 am

Yeah im the one full of cr*p..

The truth of the matter is that JetsGO's numbers are still very mucn inflated. The only routes where they get over 100pax on a consistent basis are pretty much YYZ-YVR, YYZ-YWG, YYZ-FLL, and YUL-FLL. JetsGo also does real well on the Carribean routes, but there are under contract by TMR/Signature vacations.

Mark
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15699
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Thu Jun 12, 2003 1:19 am

The truth of the matter is that JetsGO's numbers are still very mucn inflated. The only routes where they get over 100pax on a consistent basis are pretty much YYZ-YVR, YYZ-YWG, YYZ-FLL, and YUL-FLL.

You don't know this. You do not have access to their load factors. Anecdotal evidence or personal conviction is not sufficient to prove any fudging by Jetsgo.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4405
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: YOW-YYZ For Only $19

Thu Jun 12, 2003 3:48 am

Once again..

jetsGo's best routes are YYZ-YVR, YYZ-YWG, YUL-FLL, and YYZ-FLL, and recent evidence would support this because all these routes have been expanded since their introduction... cant say anything for the rest of 'em..

Mark

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