planenutz
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Mirabel In Its Heyday

Mon Jun 16, 2003 8:04 am

Does anyone have a list of ALL of the airlines that served Mirabel hwen it was still designated the sole inernational airport for Montreal? I speaing specifically of the late 70's to mid-80's when international traffic to YMX was at its height.
Not all who wander are lost....
 
flyyul
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RE: Mirabel In Its Heyday

Mon Jun 16, 2003 8:12 am

Lufthansa
British Airways (BOAC)
Varig
Finnair
Aeroflot
LOT
CSA
Iberia
LanChile
SAS
Alitalia
Ladeco
Sabena
Air France
KLM
Swissair
Air India
BWIA
Aero Mexico
Aerolinas Argentinas

Many of these routes were prestige, and at the time,the Canadian govt only allowed for the most padt access to Montreal, and not Toronto. So many carriers were in YMX for artificial reasons.

Furthermore in the heyday, airlines likely used a 747-100 to cross the pond, or a 707/DC8 combo. They didnt have the range to get to destinatons like LAX so they had to make a stop in Montreal. Montreal being the first major city on the North Atlantic entry point was a good reason for its success.

Carriers started to bypass YMX when they had more fuel and range efficient aircraft.

Mark
 
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yyz717
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RE: Mirabel In Its Heyday

Mon Jun 16, 2003 8:28 am

Furthermore in the heyday, airlines likely used a 747-100 to cross the pond, or a 707/DC8 combo. They didnt have the range to get to destinatons like LAX so they had to make a stop in Montreal. Montreal being the first major city on the North Atlantic entry point was a good reason for its success.

Carriers started to bypass YMX when they had more fuel and range efficient aircraft.


Ummm...this is incorrect. The 707-300 and the DC-8-50/60 series could all handle US West Coast-Europe routes easily. As could the 741/742. These aircraft were all in service long before YMX opened.

Many of these routes were prestige, and at the time,the Canadian govt only allowed for the most padt access to Montreal, and not Toronto. So many carriers were in YMX for artificial reasons.


This is correct.


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Aviationman
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RE: Mirabel In Its Heyday

Mon Jun 16, 2003 8:31 am

And.......

Aer Lingus
JAT
TAP Air Portugal
EL AL
Air Jamaica (charters)
Quebecair (sked and charters)
Nordair (charters)
Transair (charters)
Eastern Provincial Airways (charters)
Nationair (started December 1984)
Dominicana (charters)
Cubana
First Air (sked and charters)
Wardair
UTA
People Express
CP Air (sked and charters)
Air Canada
Olympic
Royal Air Maroc

[Edited 2003-06-16 01:35:46]


[Edited 2003-06-16 01:56:45]
 
Aviationman
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RE: Mirabel In Its Heyday

Mon Jun 16, 2003 10:07 am

And later, closer to late 80's:

Air Liberte
Royal Jordanian


Mark, Neil: I have a question. Need some clarifications.

I thought the fed government "rule" was saying that all new int'l flights operating to YYZ had to include a stop in YMX. You guys seem to believe that the "rule" said all flights must operate to YMX and not to Toronto?

Can you clarify?
 
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yyz717
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RE: Mirabel In Its Heyday

Mon Jun 16, 2003 10:26 am

Mark, Neil: I have a question. Need some clarifications.

I thought the fed government "rule" was saying that all new int'l flights operating to YYZ had to include a stop in YMX. You guys seem to believe that the "rule" said all flights must operate to YMX and not to Toronto?


I don't remember such a specific rule. However, after YMX opened in 1975, the Fed govt did place a moratorium on new intl carriers flying into YYZ (based on a perceived & vague lack of terminal capacity) which was quietly dropped in 1980 or so.

Bilateral negotiations with other countries in the 1975 to 1985 period always offered virtually unlimited access to YMX while YYZ rights were hard to get. Air-India & Peoplexpress both began YMX service while publicly stating that their preferred choice was YYZ for instance. This pro-YMX stance was seen at the time as being a tool to build up YMX traffic (which was embarassingly low) and to boost the general Montreal economy.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Aviationman
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RE: Mirabel In Its Heyday

Mon Jun 16, 2003 10:34 am

Thanks. There was never such a thing like "fly to YMX but not to YYZ". It was "or you fly to YMX AND YYZ or you don't fly to Canada at all". Which in my opinion was pretty drastic.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Mirabel In Its Heyday

Mon Jun 16, 2003 10:37 am

There was never such a thing like "fly to YMX but not to YYZ".

Well, there was with Air-India and Peoplexpress. They wanted YYZ rights in the early 80's but were only offered YMX rights. It's effectively the same thing.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Aviationman
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RE: Mirabel In Its Heyday

Mon Jun 16, 2003 10:47 am

Was not AI operating YYZ-YMX-India (Bombay or Delhi...not sure). People Express for sure was operating originating flights from YMX (B-727's).
 
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yyz717
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RE: Mirabel In Its Heyday

Mon Jun 16, 2003 11:29 am

Air-India commenced YMX service and after some lobbying with the feds added YYZ later on, around the time that AC commenced YYZ-LHR-BOM-SIN with full fifth freedoms on all routes. YMX was dropped prior to YYZ which eventually also ceased.

This AC route started in 1985 first with the 742Combi and then switched to the L15 before dropped altogether. In return for the AC SIN authority to BOM and LHR, SG received YYZ-AMS-VIE-SIN authority with full fifth freedoms which ran from ~1989 for a short while before being dropped.





I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Aviationman
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RE: Mirabel In Its Heyday

Mon Jun 16, 2003 11:38 am

Thanks for the clarification.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Mirabel In Its Heyday

Mon Jun 16, 2003 11:41 am

I meant SQ (Singapore Airlines) not SG.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Aviationman
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RE: Mirabel In Its Heyday

Mon Jun 16, 2003 11:48 am

I thought you meant different. SG??? Jetsgo? Is it not?
 
planenutz
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RE: Mirabel In Its Heyday

Mon Jun 16, 2003 12:35 pm

People Express flew to Mirabel? Didn't this not jive with the concept of concentrating all transborder flights out of Dorval? Does this mean that People Express flights to EWR had to clear US Customs at EWR's then international terminal? Mirabel was never outfitted with ore-clearance.
Not all who wander are lost....
 
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yyz717
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RE: Mirabel In Its Heyday

Mon Jun 16, 2003 12:44 pm

Correct. Peoplexpress flew to YMX, not YUL. While this did not jive with the concept of concentrating all transborder traffic at YUL, the bilateral agreement with the US at the time precluded YUL-EWR flights, so YMX was offered to Peoplexpress instead, if memory serves. Peoplexpress did not serve YMX for long.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.

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