lgbguy
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Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 2:33 am

JUST GOT WORD A SHORT TIME AGO THAT USAIRWAYS WILL DROP ALL SERVICE TO SNA AS OF SEPTEMBER 3RD.

LGBGUY
 
Trvlr
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 2:53 am

Wow! Big news. It's especially a hit for SNA, which will lose all service to Pennsylvania.

Will USAirways add more flights at LAX or SAN to accomodate this reduction?

Aaron G.
 
lgbguy
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 3:16 am

I wouldn't know about additional service at LAX or SAN, but I wouldn't be surprised if they do........stay tuned.

lgbguy
 
usairways85
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 3:27 am

I doubt any additional service will be added...just recently US added a flight from SNA-PHL, along with the SNA-PIT flight...i am not sure if there was more than one PIT flight previously. Both flights are operated with 319's
 
jjbiv
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 3:33 am

What was the magnitude of the US operation at SNA? How many RON aircraft? Gates/ticket counter space? Did they self-handle or contract with a ground handler?

joe
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 3:37 am

The SNA-PHL flight wasn't new. All US did was shift one PIT-SNA to PHL-SNA.

I find it amazing that US would dump SNA....it's a pretty high-yield market and the slots are in demand (note the recent struggles by ATA and FRNT to get the slots they wanted). I realize the goal is to let UAL do most of the Western U.S. service, but moves like this still hurt US. For example, if I want to fly PNS-SNA, DL will fly me PNS-ATL-SNA or CO will do PNS-IAH-SNA. But on US, I'd have to fly PNS-CLT-DEN-SNA. The double connection is a big waste of time and money for business travelers.

US has got to find a way to compete in the domestic market. A bunch of RJ's and Caribbean expansion isn't going to save US, if they can't manage to make money in major markets like SNA.
 
Greg
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 3:38 am

No offense...but it's hardly noteworthy.
USAir didn't provide a lot of lift out of John Wayne, anway.

"...lose all service to Pennsylvania..."<----I hope that was a joke...I'm still laughing!
 
John
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 4:04 am

This is the 2nd time they're dumping SNA!! Big mistake, if you ask me. This is THE ONE and ONLY 'inherited' city leftover from the original PSA aquisition, now there is NOTHING left! Dumbest move USAir ever made in 1988. Not to mention all the ex-PSA people who were either uprouted or lost their jobs all together!  Sad
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 4:49 am

Could it be that the demand just wasn't there to warrant the service, high yield or not? I'm sure they made this decision based solely on financial matters. SNA is a prized market, so obviously they had to put a good deal of thought into this. US has to be selective as to which routes to fly for the time being thanks to its financial difficulties.
 
deltairlines
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 5:26 am

Can we get an official release or an article of any kind? I am very sceptical that US Airways would be dropping SNA, as others have said it is in high demand, is profitable, etc. I can't really see any reason why US Airways would be dropping a profitable market, especially in a time of economic depression for this industry.

Jeff
 
airDD
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 9:17 am

I would doubt they US dump SNA,

Their flights are usually packed and they just started service to PHL.


airDD


 
Guest

RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 9:22 am

It sucks to hear that USAir is dropping SNA. I guess in order to rebuild you need to tear down. Such a shame to hear that more employees jobs are in danger. Here in ROC there's a rumor USAir will go all regional by fall. Once again more jobs lost. I really hope that this trend will eventually stop
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 9:32 am

just tried booking a flight from PHL-SNA in November, only flights listed were connecting through ORD or DEN, so it sure looks offical to me.
 
zrs70
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 9:34 am

I imagine that US will add its code on all UA service out of SNA, and that it will be advertised as an "enhancement" rather than a cutback.
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
lgbguy
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 9:38 am

talking to the usairways staff here at SNA ALL WEST COAST CITYS and MAINLINE PIT SERVICE will be dropped come sept 3. Usairways will switch all it's west coast flights to United..and Usairways will fly under United regional partner..every plane will overtime be repainted United colors...
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 9:48 am

Michael -

That is HUGE news, thanks for the update!

Royal
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 9:53 am

US Airways operates two flights at SNA. One from PHL and one from PIT, both with A319 equipment and the PHL flight does RON.

From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
as739x
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 9:58 am

So you are saying LGBGUY that San Francisco and Los Angeles will be dropped as well. I'd be surprised about that, but not shocked. I just dont see that, but maybe smaller west coast citys
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
usairways85
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 10:45 am

AS739X: Lgbguy is just exagerating...first IF US leaves PIT they are not going to completely leave all mainline operations. Second, US barely has any West Coast cities(LAX, SFO, SEA, LAS, SAN, PHX, SNA), most of which are very popular routes. PHL and CLT both have 4 or 5 flights to LAX and LAS. US isn't going to give up West Coast cities to UA...they may give up SNA but thats it.
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 11:04 am

Stupid move on US Airways' part, if it is indeed true. The surrounding area is home to dozens of companies, from Disney to Pimco and Pacific Life, and if demand improves, business travel to SNA can be high yielding. When I see US doing this, I can't help but think that despite a new coat of paint, new planes, fresh out of bankruptcy, it is hard to take this airline seriously but then again, if it can lean on the resources of United to do most of its non core East-West flying, then so be it.

ContinentalEWR
 
Trvlr
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 12:21 pm

Greg: Pennsylvania's a big state, and the areas that surround PIT and PHL specifically contain a lot of people. To make a comparison, it's like what happened when Florida lost all service to the Pacific Northwest with the departure of AA's MIA-SEA route. There was only one or two flights, but they provided a valuable connection to a large and important area of the country. If US is indeed serious, then we have a similar situation at SNA.

Aaron G.
 
tzsfo
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 1:32 pm

I know that here in SFO US is giving up there gate space to move over to Terminal three with UA....that is supposed to happen at the end of summer. I hadn't heard about the loss of all mainline service though....
It takes nerves of steel to stay neurotic. — Herb Kelleher
 
ouboy79
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 1:44 pm

TZSFO - Don't pay any attention to Lgbguy as far U pulling everything from the west coast. If it would happen, Dave would be walked out of Crystal Palace and left to rot. US Airways makes no money off of code-share flights operated by United, so it would be fiscally stupid to hand over some of the most profitable flights - transcons.
 
ScottB
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 3:03 pm

I have to say that I'm astonished that US Airways is dropping service (aside from UA codeshare) to SNA. With the restrictions, SNA slots are practically a license to print money. But it is one of their smallest mainline stations, and I suppose they face some significant fixed costs (staff, equipment, rentals) for two daily A319's.

I just can't see how they will survive long-term if they continue to shrink their route system -- it will become increasingly difficult to compete with Delta and Continental on the East Coast; routing everyone via United isn't the solution either unless they intend to try the merger again.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 10:10 pm

Ouboy,

I wouldn't say transcons are necessarily that profitable. In fact, USAirways has continuely complained about how much they were losing on the transcons. Problem is that while people on the East Coast know USAirways, the people out West barely do.

I'm sure the transcons out of PIT have seen further deterioration with the arrival of America West and ATA.

However with all that said, SNA would seem to be the highest yielding destination on the West Coast...other than SFO. So, if US can't make it work, they are in for trouble. Or US is really plannning on just shrinking into a regional carrier designed to feed a larger UAL network.
 
klwright69
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Tue Jun 17, 2003 11:29 pm

"Problem is that while people on the East Coast know USAirways, the people out West barely do."

This is VERY true. This is why I posted a disagreement when some have speculated that if UA were to go under that US would move to set up a hub in DEN.
 
Guest

RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:23 am

Usairways85 and Ouboy79 I don't believe that LGBGUY is exaggerating. He works at SNA and heard this from several US Airways employees at SNA and also several US Airways employees at LAX that I know are saying the same thing. Me personally, I am going to wait and see what happens it should be interesting.

LGB Photos
 
travelin man
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Wed Jun 18, 2003 1:11 am

Living on the West Coast, I've never had the opportunity to fly USAirways, for the simple reason I've never needed to go to CLT, PHL, or PIT. Even if I needed to go to PHL, I would just fly UA's 3x daily non-stops LAX-PHL (SFO also has 3 daily non-stops to PHL).

For the West Coast traveller, US Airways is not a choice of the frequent traveller unless you need to get to PIT or CLT non-stop. (NW & CO are in the same boat, but at least they serve Hawaii from the West Coast, and in NW's case, Japan).

I haven't seen the financials around serving SNA, but I assume they are not good enough to warrant USAirways sticking around. Can US Airways shrink itself into profitability? I think they may be shrinking themselves into oblivion....
 
Greg
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Wed Jun 18, 2003 1:18 am

I'm sorry, I read the rest of the thread but I just don't see much significance in having a single carrier pull out of a marginal market. Any under capacity is quickly absorbed by the remaining airlines.

Much Ado About Nothing....
 
usairways85
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Wed Jun 18, 2003 1:20 am

LGB Photos: so you're tellin me that within a few short months there will be absolutely no mainline flights from PIT? Also US will drop all west coast cities...i doubt that. US specifically got the 321's to fly trancons to LAX, SFO, LAS. CLT and PHL both have numerous 321's to those cities.

Now IF US dropped SFO and LAX then i could see UA stepping up to maybe 5 or 6 dailies in PHL with 757's and 767's...but what about SEA, LAS, PHX??? IF US drops out i doubt UA will add service to those cities from US hubs...if US thinks it will be profitable to route people through ORD and DEN to LAS...then i dont know what they are smokin. Someone now will fly from like SYR-PHL-LAS....they will not fly SYR-PHL-ORD-LAS. And if they fly SYR-ORD-LAS...US makes no money unless they code-share on that flight and PHL essentially loses traffic.
 
Guest

RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Wed Jun 18, 2003 1:39 am

Usairways85: Did I say there would be no mainline flight from PIT??? NO! I was trying to provide evidence as to why I don't think that LGBGUY is exaggerating on the things he said. Also I said I will wait and see what happens. I know that U has been in a fight with PIT and has threatened to just pull out. I heard again from another friend at US at LAX that LAX,SFO,SEA,LAS and PHX will be dropped after SNA.
 
lgbguy
Posts: 336
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Wed Jun 18, 2003 1:43 am

USAIRWAYS85 AND OUBBOY79,

Gentlemen my first question to you is, do either one of you work for an airline? Looking at our profiles I would say that you don't.

When voicing an opinion, please do not advise people not to listen to me or accuse me of exaggerating, I do take exception to this.

I work for an airline and spoke with several of my friends at USAirways yesterday and all related the same story to me as I posted above. One was even near tears as we talked, so please don't say that I do not know what I am talking about or exaggerating, I am most definitely not. Most of these people will loose their jobs unfortunately, so I do not take this posting lightly.

As others have stated this does seem unbelievable, but this is what the USAirways employees are being told at SNA and LAX.

That's all I have to say about that.

LGBGUY




 
usairways85
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:01 am

i completely respect your information you write on these boards and i'm certain you know more about the talk going through the airline than i do...no doubt there will be serious changes taking place in US over the next year. It just seemed like there was a lot of things in your message that other ppl have said...such as all mainline being dropped at PIT, from what i've read it doesnt sound like all mainline flights will be dropped, but well under 100 will remain. Also about all US planes being painted in UA colors and US operating as a regional partner of UA. As an outsider i guess you could say...its just hard for me to believe UA will completely take over, PHL-LAS, PHL-LAX, PHL-SFO, PHL-SEA, PHL-SAN,and so on.

I didnt mean to offend anyone but there are a million rumors being bantered back and forth and who knows what will happen. Like LGB Photos said we'll just have to wait and see what happens. I mean right now US can't leave PIT unless they can get around the state proposal which states US must stay in PIT to receive funding for both PHL and PIT.
 
2cn
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Wed Jun 18, 2003 3:33 am

I don't believe that LGBGUY is exaggerating. He works at SNA and heard this from several US Airways employees at SNA and also several US Airways employees at LAX that I know are saying the same thing. Me personally, I am going to wait and see what happens it should be interesting.

I've heard another rumor regarding US Airways at LAX at least (for sure it is an airline at LAX, and the rumor mill has a bunch attached to it.. USAirways is one) . The rumor is that they would be letting go of all their employees and using Delta for their ground handling needs. Something I heard was this was posssible due to their union conracts- that when flgihts drop below a certain level, the airline is allowed to contract the work out... management though wont say what airline it is yet, just that the employees will know what airline once the picketing oufront of the Delta terminal begins... wonderfull huh?
 
Art at ISP
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 10:31 am

RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Wed Jun 18, 2003 4:48 am

It makes no sense for US to withdraw from one of its most profitable markets. SNA flights have historically been near full. Of course because it makes no sense I fully believe they will do it. Their marketing department is non existant.

Now I checked US web site for September flights between PHL and SNA. After Sep 6 the nonstop flight PHL-SNA is shown as UA 3005 but still has nonstop, and the same times as the US 171. It may be a glitch or something but the UA web site still lists US 171.

I have some friends in Consumer Affairs--I will try to get some more information.

Thanks for the heads up--it looks like this loyal US1 customer might have to make a change after all  Sad

 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Wed Jun 18, 2003 4:56 am

In theory these code shares make some sense, tho thinking long term what happens when the airlines part ways and now you US is back to square one, securing employees, gates, equipment, and at SNA you need to get slots once again, why place all your eggs in one basket! It does give US the chance to beef up the East Coast, tho at the expense of the West coast and a code share with a bankrupt airline, that may or may not survive? Am I the only one who see how ironic this all is.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Wed Jun 18, 2003 5:50 am

The costs obviously outweigh the benefits of keeping the nonstops running in this instance. US would not pull out of a route if they had not reason to do so. That's where revenue mamagement comes in folks....let them deal with these decisions....that's what they get paid for. As I have personally been reminded on numerous occassions, it's not how full the planes are, it's all about the yield, and for all we know, US could have had some agreement with some tour agency in the SNA area to sell a certain number of seats at a deeply discounted rate. You just never know. At least SNA will be getting Frontier service to Denver and beyond...not a bad trade off in my opinion.


Steve in New Orleans
 
Trvlr
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Wed Jun 18, 2003 6:17 am

For a non-hub market such as SNA, the loss of a few routes can mean a lot, because other carriers are more reluctant to pick up that route if it does not fit well in their system. This would not be the case for someplace like ORD or DFW.

Aaron G.
 
ScottB
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RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Wed Jun 18, 2003 7:41 am

You know, two years ago, US Airways said that one of their biggest problems was the predominance of short-haul flying in their route structure, and that they needed to add more long-haul/transcon flying in order to help get their costs down (since ASM costs tend to be lower for longer flights). The new strategy at the time was going to be adding new long-haul flights (PDX, SAT, AUS) to help get costs down and broaden the network.

I suppose that if the company sees no way of ever making a profit at SNA, it makes sense to cut the service; the difficulty of regaining slots in the future makes it difficult to change their minds a year or two down the road.

As far as I can see, CLT will be losing most service to the West Coast by December -- aside from three daily flights to both SFO (UA hub) and LAX (does UA still consider it a hub?), CLT will have one daily flight to both PHX and LAS, and none to SEA or SAN. With SAN down to six daily flights and SEA down to four, it wouldn't be entirely surprising to see them both lose US mainline service either. It's also a bit sad when you consider that CLT probably had better service to the West back in the Piedmont days.
 
lgbguy
Posts: 336
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 3:05 am

RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:42 pm

Saturday September 6 ,2003 at 8:25 am the last USAirways flight to PHL-PIT will depart....it's sad to see them go after all these years..Just think at one time Usair(after the PSA buyout) was the 2nd biggest airline at SNA..soon WN will be the biggest airline at SNA.......lgbguy
 
WMUPilot
Posts: 1428
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:48 am

RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:55 pm

Ok so there is a RON space open correct? So who is the lucky carrier that will get the spot? I know TZ already told SNA no because we wanted a RON spot and couldn't get it. Will F9 try to get the RON spot since they are starting operations shortly or will it go to an airline already servicing SNA? I wish TZ would have started operations...i have family that lives around SNA and it would have been easier....guess i'll still be sticking to WN or CO to get myself from GRR to SNA.
JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
 
UA744Flagship
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 1999 1:55 pm

RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:21 am

I would imagine UA will take US's slots and resume IAD-SNA to compensate.
no wire hangers!
 
lgbguy
Posts: 336
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 3:05 am

RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Fri Jun 20, 2003 12:37 am

The talk over here at SNA is FRNT will get the open RON slot..In a perfect world ALL of the new slots shoud have gone to the Airlines already at SNA..Southwest alone would LUV to run at least a Minimum of 55 flights a day out of SNA..BUT as you all know SNA is FAR from perfect..Community Gates(shared)= a daily nightmare!!! need i say more......lgbguy.
 
WMUPilot
Posts: 1428
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:48 am

RE: Usairways To Drop SNA Service

Fri Jun 20, 2003 5:33 am

I guess that's what ya get for having an airport around an overly rich community.
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