bigmo747
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2000 3:33 pm

Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 1:58 am

I just came across this pic of a beautiful A340-600 with this slogan on the side--"4 engines 4 long haul"--my question is WHY??? Does a 747 not have 4 engines--does a 747-400 not fly long haul?? Do people not know that an aircraft with 4 engines is primarily designed for long haul trips?? so why ruin a perfectly gorgeous aircraft with this kind of crap on the side??

Virgin has an apt for doing these type of things--a few years ago it was something to the extent of "No way AA/BA"--i just think slogans like have no place on an aircraft exterior!!


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777guy
Posts: 476
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:09 am

I wonder if this will really impress many people. Surveys show that the overwhelming public does not even know what type plane they are flying and those of us in the know feel just as safe if not more so on ETOPS planes because of their safety requirements.
 
Unique
Posts: 1621
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:11 am

Maybe to kick the Triple Seven...?
 
na
Posts: 9211
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:17 am

As much as I support the slogan, as little I like ruining the aircrafts appearance with such marketing crap. It´s not a sign of superiority and is more in the league of Ryanair´s themeplanes. A top carrier shouldn´t need such stickers.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:19 am

even more pathetic is the "mine is bigger than yours" lettering.

Sad.
 
na
Posts: 9211
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:25 am

Hardly a passenger will ever see these stickers anyway so its use is a bit questionable for me. Aimed at spotters and airline magazines? Daddy and his kids on the visitors terrasse?
 
Jaws707
Posts: 667
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:27 am

I must say that I disagree with the general concensous about the wording on the planes. I really like the slogans that are put on their planes. I think that it gives them character and makes them unique. I love the Virgin managment team for staying away from major alliances and going forward that way that to.
 
gigneil
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:31 am

I don't particularly care for the "4 engines 4 long haul" program, although clearly that includes the 747-400.

I do however think the "Mine's bigger than yours" and "No way BA/AA" and "BA can't keep it up" stickers are hilarious, consistent with British humor, and certainly in-line with SRB's humor.

The "BA can't keep Concorde up" one is a bit out of line.

N
 
travelin man
Posts: 3204
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:39 am

"4 engines 4 long haul"?? Yeah, except tell that to those airlines operating the 777, A330, and 767 on long-haul routes. I hope Virgin isn't trying to insinuate that having 4 engines is "safer" than three or two.... What's the point of that little phrase?
 
gigneil
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Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:42 am

I hope Virgin isn't trying to insinuate that having 4 engines is "safer" than three or two.... What's the point of that little phrase?

That's exactly the point. Virgin is marketing 4 engines as a comfort zone. The average public does buy that kind of thing.

N
 
ktliem@YVR
Posts: 158
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:53 am

The "4 engines 4 long haul" slogan belongs to Airbus, not Virgin.

Here's an excerpt from the Seattle Times:

"At the Farnborough Air Show outside London last July, Airbus posted large billboards that read, "4 Engines 4 Long Haul." The ads angered Boeing executives because they hearkened back to a blunter 1999 Airbus campaign that pictured an A340 flying over water with no land in sight.

"It's always reassuring to have the redundancy option of four engines rather than two. Especially when you're a long, long, long way from home," the ads read.

Airbus may need to change its marketing pitches if the FAA adopts the recommendations of the extended range twin-operations (ETOPS) working group.


Source: http://www.airsafetyonline.com/cgi-bin/news/exec/view.cgi?archive=2&num=26
 
star_world
Posts: 943
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2001 7:52 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:55 am

This isn't just an idea by VS. The topic has been discussed here many times in the past, it's primarily an Airbus marketing slogan. Here are some links to articles that discuss it:

http://www.airsafetyonline.com/cgi-bin/news/exec/view.cgi?archive=2&num=26&printer=1

http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/archive/2002/september/i_ca.html

I've also seen a joint VS - Airbus billboard at LHR a few months back that had the same slogan.
 
KUGN
Posts: 606
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 3:00 am

I've never pereceived these slogans in line with British humour, only in line with RB's class, and they've allways been turn-off for me.

First time I've seen one of those graphiti it was "No way AA/BA" as I just landed at LHR. Instead of being impressed with the quantity and liveries of Virgin Atlantic aircrafts, I've been repulsed by them. The A346 slogan is even worse. By that time I knew, I'd avoid them when making travel arrangements.

I wonder if they ever had study of the marketing effects in certain regions. They had service to ORD for a while, but because of Bronson's style and attitude - even written on the aircrafts, I've never been attracted to them.
 
travelin man
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 3:02 am

Interesting to note that there is virtually no correlation with the number of engines and the safety of an aircraft. Talk about misleading/false advertising (interestingly, Airbus seems to be campaigning against its own A330 aircraft...)
 
jmc757
Posts: 1206
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 3:25 am

It's a bit of fun!! Lighten up!! Virgin has always played that way, not 100% serious, maybe even a bit childish, but its quite amusing and quirky, and goes down quite well with the public!!!!

Interestingly, Britannia protested against the ban on intra-european Duty Free, around the same time the VS "No way BA/AA" slogans were around. No-body slammed them for having "cheap" sloagans ruining their aircraft. At the end of the day, Virgin don't take these slogans as a serious piece of marketing, they're mainly tongue-in-cheek jabs at competitors!!!

jmc757 Big thumbs up
 
hkg82
Posts: 1304
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 3:44 am

It’s some light humor that Branson always likes to indulge in, and at the same time, market his airline. He’s that kind of a business person; look at how much publicity he generates for his airline!! The guy’s smart.

Hkg82.
 
BlatantEcho
Posts: 1820
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 3:49 am

The titles got you guys talking about VS though didn't it?

mission accomplished for Virgin. That IS the point of advertising.

George
They're not handing trophies out today
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 4:05 am

Notice the registration on this VS A346: G-VFOX. With the "BA can't keep it Concorde up!!!" titles, it seems very fitting. This is the kind of stuff that you see mostly on the FOX network afterall!  Laugh out loud


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bigmo747
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 4:33 am

I hadn't even noticed the "BA-can't keep it Concorde Up" slogan--that one truly has NO CLASS.

 
AA717driver
Posts: 1502
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 8:27 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 4:37 am

I know of no pilot who has done the North Atlantic on two engines who wouldn't have preferred three or four. It doesn't mean we aren't comfortable with two, though... Big grin.TC
FL450, M.85
 
Leezyjet
Posts: 3542
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 4:38 am

As Jmc757 and Hkg82 said, all it is is abit of British humour. Interesting that most of the people that don't like it/get it are from the US... where they don't get most of the British sense of humor - like they didn't get Ali G for example.

Virgin don't take themselves that seriously like other airlines do thats why they do these kind of things (It's also free publicity). How many people will actually see those slogans ? People all over the world of all ages and all sorts of differant backgrounds will see them whilst hanging around in airports. To advertise in conventional ways to that sort of audience would cost a fortune, to stick a sticker on the side of your a/c doesn't, and as Blatantecho said it's got you talking about it.

It's just tounge in cheek humor - lighten up and you might get it !!.

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
KUGN
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 4:36 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 4:41 am

It seems that those graphiti are getting progressivly worse. Looking back, the first one might have had some witt, but this new is really tasteless. If this gets their advertising mission acomplished, I wonder what is their target audience.


Anyways, JMC757, what was Britannia's slogan saying? Was it directed toward goverment policy on duty-free regulation or toward the competition?
 
bigmo747
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2000 3:33 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:39 am

I have no problem with Richard Branson's attempts at being funny--but does he really need to ruin the side of an Airbus 346 or a Boeing 747 to express his humor??
 
Pacific
Posts: 1043
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 8:59 pm

I like the humour actually. I also like that concorde slogan. I'd rather see a super-stingy airline flying the concorde than seeing a plane with hours on its airframe left in a museum.

I just like the humour, makes them different, which is the exact point of the marketing.

Pacific
 
Demoose
Posts: 1891
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 10:24 pm

As previously mentioned the "4 engines 4 long haul" slogan belongs to Airbus, it's their slogan for the A340. I was recently on holiday and saw a bit of CNN on the tv and up came an Airbus A340 advert (who they are aiming it at I don't know) but it ended with the 4 engines slogan. Its hardly ruining an aircraft, its just trying to increase awareness of a particular aircraft by adding a catchy slogan to it.


Mark
Take a ride...fly across the sky
 
schreiner
Posts: 909
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2001 7:50 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 10:28 pm

I find it very funny...

And again, the slogan helps; we are discussing it RIGHT NOW, so... it gets publicity, starting here in this forum.
Cheers,
Schreiner
Soaring the internet...
 
David_itl
Posts: 5993
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Tue Jun 24, 2003 10:30 pm


And speaking of Conc, G-BOAC's been grounded after engineers inspecting it found "damaged wiring". More in this BBC story.

David
 
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yyz717
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Wed Jun 25, 2003 12:56 am

The slogan "4 engines 4 long haul" is just a marketing gimic. If Virgin can convince just one passenger to switch from a BA 772 to Virgin, then it has paid off.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
bigmo747
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2000 3:33 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Wed Jun 25, 2003 1:03 am

Based upon the marketing theory, or if it is just trying to increase the awareness of a particular aircraft why is it not on their 744/742 fleet??
 
DIA
Posts: 3053
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 2:24 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Wed Jun 25, 2003 1:34 am

"Ruins" is a pretty harsh way to put it. I'd say Virgin likes to use their a/c as just another medium to express their views (or Richard's), or market themselves.

We all know the "4 engines" ad is a good laugh to us who understand it really boils down to a marketing gimmic that plays on the minds of people who don't understand enough about aviation, technology, safety guidelines and statistics.

Virgin has always been and always will be "voicing themselves" in as many ways as they can.

Do I like the little print ads/opinions on their a/c? Not really, but I've seen plenty worse.

I see it this way: British Airways is the conservative right-wing airline and Virgin is the left-wing liberal airline. Virgin will try to get in your face about "whatever", while BA is fine to sip tea and let you figure "whatever" out yourself in due time.
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
The_Greq
Posts: 171
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2000 3:39 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Wed Jun 25, 2003 2:56 am

Note that I prefer Virgin above BA...

But I always have to laugh about these stickers on the tail-end.

Virgin: "Concorde - BA can't keep it up"

If BA got a littlebit of humor, the sticker their Concordes with

"Virgin: You can't always get what you want!"

Rgrds,
Gregor
@msterdam
 
GDB
Posts: 12680
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Wed Jun 25, 2003 3:34 am

Well to be accurate, the latest should really read "Virgin couldn't keep Concorde up if they tried"
So based on a lie, as Airbus and AF pulled the plug and took them with us.

As for the other, well it is a sly attempt to insinuate that BA 777's are less safe than VS A340-600 (an aircraft I happen to really like).
Of course he dare not come out and say it plainly, if the Sonic Cruiser had been built and VS had got some, would that slogan have disappeared.

I remember a couple of years after VS started, then with a couple of 747-100/200s that had several owners each.
Though VS were based at LGW then, BA were contracted to do some checks on these 747s.
Maybe our standards were too high, maybe we were too used to our own 747s mostly with one careful owner (us), although then we did plenty of 3rd party work.
Anyway, these 747s were heaps of shit, they needed a good going over, so not surprisingly they came out late, we had found so much more work that needed attention as we got into the job.
But VS got much better aircraft afterwards.
Now, it would be usual for maybe some penalty payments to be made, even allowing for the condition of the aircraft coming to light during the check.
But Branson made a hell of a noise, claimed it was all part of a BA plot to do him down, etc.
What were we supposed to do? Not do the job properly? Think what he would have made of that!
So after that, no work with VS, we are in the business of providing good, safe aircraft, not being a pawn in a PR game.

Although in 1997 or 98, a VS A340 needed work after an incident, we provided a hangar and support for the VS guys, we've no problem with them, hell, a lot of them used to work for us!

Today of course, VS has a modern fleet of owned from new aircraft, and a much bigger Engineering operation.
But guess who Boeing says are the world's leading 747 operator for dispatch reliability?
 
jmc757
Posts: 1206
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:08 am

GDB, I fully understand where your loyalties lie, amd for good reason. But as you said BA had owned the aircraft from rollout, and thats because they could afford to, simple as that. VS were a new airline, and did not have the luxury to have "the pick of the crop".
Note that those very 747s were still in service a few years ago, I flew G-VGIN in 1996. BA were right to ensure the aircraft were in fit flying order, not disputing that, perhaps if you had a good look at Flyjet's G-FJEA you may call that "a heap of shit" (nothing against Flyjet, or even MYT), but its all relative....
 
GDB
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:28 am

Who says I'm totally loyal to BA?
Anyway, my point was that Branson used the good work we did on those aircraft, and used it as a stick to beat us with.
Tell me how that is good practice?
Not encouraging us to do a good job?
Says a lot about him though.

Some of us through our work can see through the hype.
I recommend Tom Boyers book on Branson.

 
727_Gal
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2002 12:26 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Wed Jun 25, 2003 12:02 pm

While I do agree that some of these slogans are bordering on tacky, I think they're all quite clever...tongue in cheek, no serious harm done. Plus, the aircraft aren't "ruined" as the slogans can be rather easily removed, am I right? If Virgin Atlantic had, say, engraved "No way BA/AA" into the side of an aircraft, then you could make a case for saying the plane was "ruined."

These are just witty little sayings, barely noticeable to the average traveler. And when the average traveler does notice them, it gets them talking about Virgin, which is the point, now isn't it? I think these are far less tacky than the bumper stickers people plaster all over their car, or poorly done tattoos or a huge facial piercing. Virgin knows when to poke a little fun where a little fun needs to be poked - with the state of the aviation industry (and the world) these days, that's definitely a plus.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Thu Jun 26, 2003 4:28 am

So, in a sense, Ryanair and EasyJet are ruining their a/c by slapping quirky slogans on their planes as well?

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KUGN
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Thu Jun 26, 2003 4:40 am

Srbmod, there is a difference. In my opinion, RB's rhetoric and slogans are somewhat inflamatory. Or it could be just a matter of taste. Ryanair, and EZ slogans are just fine.
 
Spark
Posts: 421
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 11:50 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Thu Jun 26, 2003 11:26 am

A lot of people in this forum take this stuff WAY too seriously. Sir Dick is just having a bit a fun.
 
VS601
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue May 20, 2003 8:01 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:14 pm

There is no difference between the slogans that Easyjet or Ryanair or Virgin write on their aircraft. The difference is that it is obviously trendy to moan about Richard Branson.

The point is that these ads do work to get the public to notice. I have been in the airline industry for 8 years now, and Joe Public is very aware of VS and their marketing campaigns. People enjoy it. It does work and VS gain from it.
 
USAFHummer
Posts: 10261
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 12:22 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:25 pm

I think it's a brilliant plan by Sir Richard...but I think that the truth is that most travelers probably dont give a damn about what is written on the side of the aircraft they will be flying on...

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
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keesje
Posts: 9086
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:39 pm

GBD

I think VS has a good safety record. They perhaps don't pamper & polish their aircraft like BA. It safes cost to focus on just neccesary safety related maintenance.

These days VS outsources 747 maintenance to established reliable party's.

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
noelg
Posts: 2313
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2002 11:39 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Thu Jun 26, 2003 6:13 pm

Why do so many people have a problem with this slogan? I saw the aircraft in question doing circuits/touch and gos at East Midlands last week, and thought it was quite cool!

Why does it automatically mean they're having a dig at any other airlines/planes - 4 engines 4 long haul is just a statement about the A340- and doesn't necessarily mean that 2 engines is any worse!

Lighten up you guys!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
GDB
Posts: 12680
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Ruins Aircraft....

Fri Jun 27, 2003 12:09 am

I'm not saying that VS have a bad record, I couldn't have made it clearer, I've nothing against VS Engineering.
What I am saying is the Branson should watch his mouth.

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