gordonroxburgh
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BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 3:55 am

Following up a month old topic that seems to have been archived:


He is the BA working list of 12 locations for their 7 (or 8) Concordes:

:: Smithsonian Institute in Washington DC

:: Science Museum in London, which could receive a nose of one of the
Concordes.

:: USS Intrepid - an aircraft carrier based on the Hudson River in New York.

:: Seattle Museum of Flight.

:: Duxford Imperial War Museum in Cambridgeshire.

:: Spitfire and Hurricane Memorial Museum in Manston, Kent.

:: Brooklands Motor Sports and Aviation Museum in Surrey.

:: Terminal 5 at Heathrow Airport.

:: Filton in Bristol.

:: Manchester Airport.

:: Yorkshire Air Museum in York.

:: Cosford Museum in Shropshire.
 
planespotterx
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 3:58 am

They belong in the air, where they SHOULD be, flying commercially again, and if BA werent so BIG headed, and up-themselves (like the fat possums they are) then they still would be.
PS im starting a campaign, not to fly on BA EVER again, in retaliation to their decision on Concorde, if they cant respect the British people, then why should we fly with them.
(im going to T3 at MAN tomorrow working, and to voice my protest lol)
Its not the fall that kills u, its the sudden stop at the end..
 
eg777er
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:00 am

I think the Museum of Flight, Seattle should be a definite. This museum, even though it's in the US, will be the "world's aviation museum". I understand they will have the prototype 747 there, what better way to illustrate the two totally different philosophies of the 1970s.

I also think the New York idea is a good one: after all, without the dedication of that city, the Concorde Story would never have been as illustrious as it is now.

Thirdly, I would really like them to find some way of suspending G-BOAC from the roof of the Terminal 5 departure lounge. I understand this building will be one of the largest enclosed spaces in the UK: and having Concorde, protected from the elements, casting a motherly eye over air travellers in 2050 would be spectacular. You certainly couldn't leave the old girl to rust on a round-a-bout: what kind of man would Eddington be to let that happen???



(Spotter: b****r off. I believe that's language you understand 'down under'. How many times do you have to be told: the decision to ground Concorde has been taken by Airbus, not BA. I suggest you go and abuse yourself over a model of Concorde in Virgin colours: that's the furthest it's going to go, a model.)

[Edited 2003-06-24 21:15:47]
 
Britair
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:12 am

Well said Eg777er! Scary to think some people actually believe Branson's hype!  Big grin  Smile

Also like the sound of your T5 suggestion!
 
LHR340
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:22 am

Yep well said Eg777er, BA is loosing money - Concorde costs far to much to maintain and fly. Its best that it is retired, there is no need to boycott the airline for retiring the Concorde! & The T5 idea sounds great!

LHR340
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planespotterx
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:23 am

Im not FOR Branson, no more than if anyone else wanted to buy the plane, I just think its a shame its going, especially due to the fact that WE the brits paid for it, and we cant even say what we want to happen to her.
Oh well, lets just hope the A380 and 7E7 (if they ever build it) gets going really well, I like the design of the 7E7 actually, its futuristic looking, even if it does have that "classical" airliner shape to it, still, a good design by Boeing.
I hope that BA do keep one Concorde flying (just like you have spits and other WW2 aircraft), not for the sake of it, but for the memory of it.
I still think BA and AF have made the wrong decision, but who am I to say...
Its not the fall that kills u, its the sudden stop at the end..
 
GDB
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:23 am

It won't be Brooklands, the aircraft they have already are in poor condition.
USS Intrepid is an inappropriate setting, being a military museum, as well as any Concorde being open to the elements.
Duxford and Smithsonian already have one.

Seattle is a Front runner, as is Filton, T5 is a bit far off in the future.

Planespotterx, what part of my posts on VS Concorde don't you understand? I'm an insider, your not, end of story.
Not being arrogant, just trying to bring clarity.
 
eg777er
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:32 am

I still think BA and AF have made the wrong decision, but who am I to say...

But that's the whole point. IT WAS NOT BRITISH AIRWAYS' DECISION TO RETIRE CONCORDE. Airbus pulled the plug, not BA. I don't know how many times this can be said. Perhaps this will help:

Airbus pulled the plug, not BA.
Airbus pulled the plug, not BA.
Airbus pulled the plug, not BA.
Airbus pulled the plug, not BA.
Airbus pulled the plug, not BA.
Airbus pulled the plug, not BA.
Airbus pulled the plug, not BA.

Clear yet?
 
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clickhappy
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:35 am

the part of the story that these pro-Virgin/Concorde people seem to ignore is that Airbus has told Air France and British that they will no longer support the planes. If Tricky Dick really wanted to keep them flying he would be taking Airbus to task, not BA. Which can only lead one to the conclusion that he is just trying to make BA look bad in the public's eye.
 
planespotterx
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:38 am

Eg777er OK it was Airbus that pulled the plug, but initially BA/AF said they were retiring it for economic purposes, then Ba changed their minds and said it was because of manufacturing purposes.
Anyway I hope she goes to Manchester (or she at least visits one more time)
Its not the fall that kills u, its the sudden stop at the end..
 
GDB
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:40 am

He saw Airbus a month ago, they said no.
Simple really, not that they are for sale, even if they were and Airbus were positive, the CAA would have plenty to say on the matter.
 
donder10
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:41 am

Exactly Royal.Also,if RB was serious,he would have tried to acquire AF's concordes which have much lower hours.
 
eg777er
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:47 am

but initially BA/AF said they were retiring it for economic purposes.

Yes, for economic reasons, Airbus announced they wanted to cancel the support. They've already allocated the engineering staff to other areas of the company. Perhaps BA should have made this clearer from the outset: but the if the complexities of the Airbus-AF-BA relationship are lost on Branson, then how the hell are the general public going to be able to form an informed opinion????

It is worth remembering this fact: without the insistence of BA and their commitment to the Concorde operation, it would have stopped 20 years ago. How dare anyone question the airline that has often single-handedly, continually fought for man's ability to travel at supersonic speeds on the edge of space?
 
GDB
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:53 am

BA tried to spare AF's blushes, and go easy on Airbus.
Until you know who stuck his nose in.
 
gordonroxburgh
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 5:02 am

What does the Airbus/AB./AF/VS argument have to do with the Museums, Lets get back on topic. Plenty of VS topics are Airliners.net
 
Stretch 8
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 5:13 am

Only Gordon and GDB above really have any authority to speak on the details of the demise if Concorde.

Sadly, it is time to let go of Concorde. I got to fly on her once, and yes, it was the aviation experience of a lifetime (unless I get a ride in an F-22 someday). It is too expensive to maintain, and when AF decided to drop the service, BA had no choice. No support from Airbus means goodbye Concorde. End of story.

For the record, AF has graciously donated to the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum Annex at IAD Concorde "Fox-Alpha." Thank you, France. There, I said it. And I mean it.
Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
 
adh214
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 5:33 am

I don't know if they would have the space but the Powerhouse Museum in Sydney would be an excellent location for a Concorde. It is truly one of the best museums in the world. In my opinion it is better than the Smithsonian.

Andrew
 
petertenthije
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 5:58 am

LHR T5
Seattle
Dubai (first BA destination for Concorde)
Manchester
New York
Filton

Duxford and Smithsonian already have one so they should not get one. Maybe one to the military test wing for high speed testing? Something like what Boeing did with the TU-144 a few years back? Well... you can dream anyway!
Attamottamotta!
 
GDB
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 7:08 am

A guess, but I reckon;

Filton
Seattle
Manchester
Cosford
York

202's nose removed and restored, then to Science Museum

The two non flyer;
One could be stored at LHR until T5 is ready, likely OAB.
The other could be stored by the Science museum, if 202 is not used, then coverted for display.

 
gordonroxburgh
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 7:20 am

One little problem on Cosford is that the runway is too short for Concorde -1200m. That one could be an interesting road journey.

For having one looked dafter and made available to the Public, Duxford must be a favourite to show it off along with a development (prototype) aircraft will all the test gear on board. That really contrasts what it too to get there.
 
carduelis
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 7:26 am

Peter, Nethrlands

Dubai? - I thought BA's first commercial flight was to Bahrain . . .
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
SA365C1
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 7:26 am

If 1 of those concordes does not end up in Scotland, namely the museum of flight at East Fortune then there had better be an inquiry
 
da man
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 7:44 am

Bahrain instead of Dubai was BA's first destination.
Also, 202's nose has already been removed and is being used for spares, the airframe is also lacking the vertical tail and Concorde landing gear.
look on concordesst.com
da man
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GDB
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 7:46 am

The way to get a Concorde is simple;
1) Is the area of the museum appropriate to the aircrafts history? (rules in UK museums by default).
2) Can the aircraft be displayed in good condition? So undercover really.
3) Has the museum the resources to look after the aircraft in the long term?

Now Seattle loses on no.1, but scores well on the other two, and they've a Comet there too which somewhat alleviates 1.
Brooklands fails totally on 2 and 3.
Filton looks great for 1, and should be OK for 2 and 3, if 202 is moved off site.
Cosford should score on 1 and 3, I've not been there so cannot comment on 2, BA will look at how AF get their one on to that roof in Germany, possibly a Concorde could land at the nearest airport to Cosford, then dissemble and do the rest by road if possible.
Despite having a Concorde, Duxford are very highly regarded by BA.
Cannot comment on the Scottish facility, if it looks good, then its got a chance.
What we really want is a decent place near New York, not the USS Intrepid, I understand that they are not favoured any more, like Brooklands.
 
eg777er
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 7:51 am

Yes, Bahrain was the destination of the BA300 on 21 January 1976.

Apparently a brakes on, full thrust (+ afterburners) departure from Muharraq Airfield's Runway 30 was one of life's most exquisite pleasures........

Over the sea, so no noise abatement on departure you see........
 
silverfox
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 8:02 am


eg777er
Just on a dog in the manger note, i wouldn't send one to New York, nor, in fact to anywhere in the US, as their initial reaction to the introduction of the aircraft was VERY HOSTILE, but being the age you are ,you wont remember that. Whilst, the oil crisis of that time was a factor, the initial anti concorde feeling that was running in the USA, did, i feel, put a lot of airlines off putting their options into firm orders. Hence only the state,at that time, airlines of the two manufacturing companies, had to go ahead.
I too have heard that T5 will have one on show, this from a source near to the airport.
 
eg777er
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:43 pm

I take you point - and from the history, I know all about the anti-Concorde feeling in the US - but I honestly think that the people of the City of New York have played a vital role in the success of Concorde. Admittedly, there was initial hostility but this turned into support and high levels of patronage for much of the aircraft's life. Which other city in the world could support 4 SST departures and 4 arrivals (2x each to LHR and CDG at their height) per day?

Also, you only have to look at the welcome back Concorde recieved when they resumed flights so close to September 11. The symbol of Concorde returning to a shattered city as a vote of confidence was very prominent in New Yorker's minds.
 
GDB
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Thu Jun 26, 2003 1:02 am

I agree with eg777er, and some 60-70% of our pax were American.
But let retired Concorde Capt Dave Rowland have the last word on this, remembering the protests in 1976/7 he said that 20 years later the general reaction from New Yorkers was rather different;
"They send me poetry about it"

 
silverfox
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Thu Jun 26, 2003 4:26 am

Of course, once they saw it running, they agreed it wasnt such a big thing, but if my memory serves me correctly, the two years that it took to get it there certainly helped in its demise!!! now
I will be sorry to see it go having seen/heard it every day for the last 25 years or so.
Using up a lot of film at heathrow at the moment... and getting a tan!!!
 
eg777er
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Thu Jun 26, 2003 4:54 am

Yes well we just have to indulge our American cousins and their affliction that goes by the medical ackronym NIHS, or Not Invented Here Syndrome.......
 
cptkrell
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Thu Jun 26, 2003 8:25 am

Now, please don't be too hard on ALL of us. Remember that the environmental wackos over here had a lot to do with the anti-SST activism, too (so much in fact, that the US never built a competitive prototype while Concorde has been gracing our east coast skies for decades). Kind regards...Jack
all best; jack
 
GDB
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Thu Jun 26, 2003 8:33 am

Yes, though probably only a practical aircraft in the final B2707-300 tailed delta version, the loss of this project was a serious threat to Concorde, as the anti-SST crowd had claimed one scalp, the biggest, and were hungry for more.
And the US demonstrators had plenty of support from British counterparts, notably the late Richard Wiggs.
Never heard of any Frenchmen being involved in anti-SST activities though, maybe they don't have the NIMBY and self-loathing tendencies prevalent in a section of UK society.
So I've no problem with one or two BA Concordes going to the US.
 
BO__einG
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:13 am

Send em to East Bronx.

In reality I think 1 concorde could go to the Aviation Museum in Ottawa, Canada. This country and britain has some close connections so why not donate one there.
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STT757
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Thu Jun 26, 2003 11:49 am

I think one should be in NY, but not the Intrepid. First it's too big and second the Intrepid is geared towards military aviation.

It should be at JFK, as part of a museum on the long history of International air travel, from 707s, 747s, Concorde, the Beatles invasion etc.

Alot of history has been made at JFK.

The former TWA terminal at JFK designed by Eero Saarinen is currently sitting idol, the former terminal should become the "JFK museum". They could have displays and interactive pieces about the history of International Air travel.

They could have the Concorde and other memorable aircraft like a 707 in American colors, a 747 in Pan Am colors and a L1011 in TWA colors parked at the gates, folks could use the jetways to enter the aircraft.

They could also put a restaraunt in the Terminal with a viewing area of the JFK flight line.


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silverfox
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RE: BA Concordes - Where Should They Go?

Thu Jun 26, 2003 3:16 pm

OK then.. just one (lol)
What about that airfield near DTW that is a museum?
Intend to go there next year when in Detroit
Trouble is i cant remember its name... its another senior moment

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