contrails
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AA Cuts - STL Could Be Hit Hard

Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:53 pm

The Washington Post is reporting this morning that AA is about to cut capacity again. This time many flights will be deleted from the schedule. According to the Post, AA is also looking at reducing service at STL, and many analysts think STL will be hurt by this round of cuts much more so than DFW, ORD, or MIA, AA's other domestic hubs. The Post also suggested that AA will restore "normal seating" in the coach sections of their aircraft (I knew it wouldn't last).

This is not good news for STL, nor is it good news for AA employees. And it's not good news for AA passengers, either.



Flying Colors Forever!
 
luv2fly
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RE: AA Cuts - STL Could Be Hit Hard

Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:01 pm

Contrails

What I have read is when they are done parking planes after this round the fleet size will be the same as it was in the year 2000. I thought when they announced the less room thru coach on the airbus and 757 that it was only the start, the rest of the fleet will get this treatment as well.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
srbmod
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RE: AA Cuts - STL Could Be Hit Hard

Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:11 pm

This may be bad news for AA and its' STL team, but could be good news in the form of increased WN service or potentially the entry of either JetBlue or AirTran into STL.
 
atcboy73
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RE: AA Cuts - STL Could Be Hit Hard

Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:22 pm

Hey guys, great to hear this topic live on.

Read my thoughts on why I think STL will Survive as a hub or base of
operations , if not for AA than for someone else in this thread.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1121989
 
atcboy73
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RE: AA Cuts - STL Could Be Hit Hard

Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:31 pm

Chicago Trib seems to imply a complete closing of the STL hub.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/printedition/chi-0307020265jul02,1,3593016.story?coll=chi-printbusiness-hed

If it does close than I think its the begging of a new day for Lambert Field. The future could be very bright if they play their cards right.
 
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modernArt
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RE: AA Cuts - STL Could Be Hit Hard

Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:05 pm

I realize that the situation in St. Louis has been tenuous at best for the last 2-3 years, but if American does shutter Lambert soon, will anybody (meaning employees, cities courting the airline, analysts, etc.) ever believe anything that they say again?
 
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yyz717
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RE: AA Cuts - STL Could Be Hit Hard

Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:13 pm

This is not good news for STL, nor is it good news for AA employees. And it's not good news for AA passengers, either.

Well, it's probably good for the industry. Most analysts feel there is still too much capacity in the market. This will help drive up yields a little for all airlines.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
sllevin
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RE: AA Cuts - STL Could Be Hit Hard

Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:15 pm

but if American does shutter Lambert soon, will anybody (meaning employees, cities courting the airline, analysts, etc.) ever believe anything that they say again?

Of course they will. AA had no idea that 9/11 was going to happen. Now they must deal with the aftermath.

Truth be told, at worst, STL and TWA employees got between 4 months and 3 years more work than they would have otherwise. It's not like TWA was a going concern!

Steve
 
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modernArt
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RE: AA Cuts - STL Could Be Hit Hard

Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:15 pm

p.s. St Louis' best hope lies with Southwest. Realistically, who's going to connect STL to cities like Austin, Portland, San Antonio, San Jose, Seattle, Raleigh-Durham, New Orleans, West Palm, etc?
 
N777UA
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RE: AA Cuts - STL Could Be Hit Hard

Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:41 pm

Well with Chicago & Dallas in the Midwest for hubs, STL really isn't needed. Back when the AA/TWA merger took place, they may have needed the extra capacity because O'Hare was so gridlocked.

Now......who knows.

It's a shame though that so many senior employees from TWA are getting the A"Axe. They should at least be given the opportunity to transfer to other AA bases.
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: AA Cuts - STL Could Be Hit Hard

Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:44 pm

I would not rule out an AirTran hub at STL.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
luv2fly
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RE: AA Cuts - STL Could Be Hit Hard

Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:49 pm

You know I did not even think of AirTran and STL! I am not sure they would want to go up against WN tho I could see them offering different cities out of STL that WN offers? Such as ATL, MIA, DFW, MKE, MSP, CAK, BOS, LGA, FNT, DAY with these cities and the ones I forgot they would not be going head to head with WN it could be done.!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: AA Cuts - STL Could Be Hit Hard

Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:55 pm

It was mentioned at AirTran's annual meeting that a Midwest hub was in the cards but since all the good ones were taken AirTran would probably wait and jump in when an incumbent either folded or pulled out. AirTran has gone up against Southwest at BWI and in Florida and done well. I think STL would be much better than MCI (too small) or MKE (too far North).
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
luv2fly
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RE: AA Cuts - STL Could Be Hit Hard

Thu Jul 03, 2003 12:32 am

I agree STL would be ideal. AA is not in the financial position to keep it up as a hub just to keep another carrier out of the market. MCI and Joe Leonard being from Eastern I am not sure he would want to repeat that one. MKE it is north tho ripe for a LCC carrier. NWA has started flights and I am sure the reason is to keep AirTran at bay right now. Time will tell.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
AA717driver
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RE: AA Cuts - STL Could Be Hit Hard

Thu Jul 03, 2003 12:45 am

Does anyone here think AA will walk away from STL, leaving the door open for a LCC to further erode yields in the middle of the country? With JB breathing down everyone's neck in the transcon market AND ramping up for an assault on the short-haul, LCC market, AA is not about to offer an open invitation to JB to come into STL. AirTran is looking to break out of the East Coast and STL would be a great springboard into the Midwest(better than MKE).

The LCC would come into a great facility(great, not perfect) and hire from the experienced pool of laid off TWA employees(who have an axe to grind with AA anyway...). I could give you a list of at least a couple hundred ex-TWA pilots who live in STL who would love to spend the rest of their careers trying to beat up on AA.

[Remember, TWA knew how to operate an efficient airline, they were hamstrung by a decade of being raped by Carl Icahn(and two previous decades of being raped by other management).]

If AA can hang onto STL by operating mostly RJ's and give themselves a third option in the middle of the country, why not? It will cost them less in the long term than having a LCC set up shop downstate from ORD.

BTW, didn't AA just announce an increase in their schedule? I think this is to cool the markets a little. This week, the analysts began raising AA's bond rating and changing their outlook. I don't think it is in the best interest of AMR to show the financial on the upswing before the ink is dry on the concessions by the employees. You start being cash positive only a month after the draconian pay cuts take effect and your "turnaround" goes in the toilet. (The employees DON'T believe anything that comes out of management's mouth. AMR has earned that behavior, too--time and time again.) Also, this tactic is also used to beat down the airport managers and maybe get incentives to continue with multiple-market flights from the smaller cities, IMO.

The management has already had meetings to consider reducing the number of furloughs coming. When it comes to AMR, believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. Nothing is ever as it seems with them...TC
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atcboy73
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RE: AA Cuts - STL Could Be Hit Hard

Thu Jul 03, 2003 12:54 am

I think AirTran and STL is a perfect match. Al long as they keep cost in line they can build a large midwestern hub right in the middle of all the high cost airline hubs.

It is my belief that there is a large enough population (STL having more people than MKE, MEM, CVG, and just as many as CLE) to support a hub with the right cost structure.

There are also plenty of routes that AirTran could fly with out competing with SWA.

There is also a large feed operation already built at STL with all the prop and RJ operators.

For too long STL has been like, oh no TWA don't fold, we will give you the house and all the dishes for free to keep you in business.

The people of STL and Missouri gave a lot (weather they be ex-TWAers or not)
to keep TWA alive.

Then here comes AA and we all took a break from our worries. Now they want to consider closing the operation. Have at it!

Lets get a spunky little up start that has the right cost structure and business model to compete with an expanding SWA and let the airport and the city of STL thrive.

It may be painful for the city and the state, not to mention the people who may loose jobs but over time the service will come back. It did at MCI. Remember the TWA, Eastern and two Branniff hubs? MCI boards more people now they ever had before.

My vote--AirTran at STL.
 
luv2fly
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RE: AA Cuts - STL Could Be Hit Hard

Thu Jul 03, 2003 12:58 am

There is a article in today's 07-02-03, USA Today and the picture at AAi s not that rosey as you have painted.
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luv2fly
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RE: AA Cuts - STL Could Be Hit Hard

Thu Jul 03, 2003 1:05 am

It is AA in the article and not AAi as I have wrote. Tho good article on AAI in the same paper today as well.
You can cut the irony with a knife