planefreak
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2000 7:09 am

Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 2:07 am

This post is to express my disgust with American Airlines for their total lack of respect and fair treatment of former TWA employees. The news that AA is to "let go" of 3,100 employees, more than half of them from TWA, makes me see red all over again. Remember what happened to Reno Air and their employees when AA brought them out? If this news is not enough to read further that AA is planning to relocate 900 F/A's to STL to replace the "removed" TWA is a complete punch in the mouth!

AA now is reviewing its overall picture of their hub system. However reading between the lines AA has its target set on leaving STL all together. What will the business travelers of this airport and region do then?

They will fill every SWA plane know to man in and out of STL and SWA will laugh all the way to the bank.

Good luck AA, you can lay them off (TWA employees) but they will always be someone there in the shadows who remembers.

planefreak
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1576
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 2:25 am

I thought it was the unions that decided where the TWA employees would be ranked for seniority????

Or would you rather AA go Ch. 11 and have a judge do all the dirty work, such as US and UAL?

Granted, its not a pretty deal, but maybe you should think before writing notes.

Good luck to all teh TWAers.
 
planefreak
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2000 7:09 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 2:34 am

Unions and courts. We are not talking about them here. We are talking about the dirty process that AA has been doing for years. Real people are losing everything they own and why? The answer is simple. AA plays dirty and if AA went into Chp 11 it would be there own fault! AMR is not new on the block. They make their own choices just like every one else.

Planefreak
 
AIR757200
Posts: 1466
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 8:30 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 2:46 am

Well, there's nothing anyone can do, so thank you for not choosing AA.

It's just a big circle with this "never fly XX-airlines" comment. Everytime I hear someone say that (esp. while at work), I just think of someone at another airline saying the same thing and coming to AA.

What most of you don't know and while it may appear to some of you that AA has no respect for anyone. Anyone who has been furloughed after March 31, 2003, AA has extended their flight benefits for 18 months (was 90-days), plus an additional six months for showing up as scheduled from the time of notice to layoff date. That was a good gesture that they DIDN'T have to do.

It put a big smile on my face!
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 2:57 am

Good point, Planefreak, about SWA benifitting most if AA indeed pulls the plug on the STL hub. If that happens we will undoubtedly hear more of AA bemoaning the onslaught of the LCCs -- after forfeiting a hefty slice of market share to them.
 
tekelberry
Posts: 1309
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 6:37 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:04 am

AA couldn't do anything about it. The union decided to put TWA employees at the bottom of the senority list. AA decided to lay off 3000 people, the union picked the ones at the bottom of the senority list.

Would you rather have them go bankrupt?
 
bucky707
Posts: 954
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 2:01 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:08 am

Before you decide not to fly AA, talk to they former TWA unions. They all, all of them, waived any merger protections in their contracts as a condition of being acquired by AA. They knew without the purchase they were gone, so they accepted the condition. They also knew what the consequences of waiving these protections would be. They have no one to blame but themselves.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:08 am

Extending air benefits does not put food on the table, and I am sure there are 3,100 ex TWA FA's that just got laid off that would agree with me. It is an empty gesture is all. It is space available anyway so chances are they are getting a seat that AA did not have the chance to get a revenue pax to buy.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
AIR757200
Posts: 1466
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 8:30 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:57 am


Thank you Tekelberry and Bucky707 for your posts. Everyone else is just looking through the "I hate AA" window.

So what if, let's say, DFW was to shut down... Are you all going to share the same sympathy to the AA'ers?
 
planefreak
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2000 7:09 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 4:12 am

Lets get one think clear. I do not care for AA and if I would have want to see them go under, yeah, if the shoe fits the foot, then so be it!

Period!

Planefreak
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1576
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 4:14 am

I didn't think mine was a "I hate AA" line..as a matter of fact I was pro AA.
 
AIR757200
Posts: 1466
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 8:30 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 4:23 am

Tan Flyr, I overlooked your post- sorry. And any others too.

 
tekelberry
Posts: 1309
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 6:37 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 4:32 am

Lets get one think clear. I do not care for AA and if I would have want to see them go under, yeah, if the shoe fits the foot, then so be it!

Period!

Planefreak


Your nickname fits you, Planefreak. You want to see hundreds of thousands lose their jobs and the US economy taking a hit by the #1 airline in the world going out of business? Boy oh boy...what is this world coming to?
 
sllevin
Posts: 3312
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 4:33 am

So you would have rather had those TWA folks go unemployed 2 years ago? I suspect they are a lot happier having gotten to work until now.

This just goes to the old adage "No good deed goes unpunished"

Steve

[Edited 2003-07-02 21:34:28]
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 4:39 am

AA's biggest mistake is easy to see with 20/20 hindsight - they never should have bought TWA. Then Carl Icahn could be taking the heat about the fate of TWA employees rather than AA.

The "I'll never fly XX airlines again" posts amuse me. YOu can bet your bottom dollar that if AA offered a flight for fifty bucks less than the competition, the apologists would come out, claiming they were "forced" to fly them.
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 5:02 am

I am glad you will not be flying AA. Now I will run into fewer hopelessly misguided angry people on my AA flights.
 
E1FAIL
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 7:36 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 5:37 am

I believe a little over 1200 of the 3100 or so laid off FA/s were native A/A. It isn't like all A/Aer's are still employed at the expense of TWA. American employees are feeling the heat too.
 
jgiardin
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2000 11:53 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 5:38 am

Let's face it: The TWA unions took a gamble and staved off furloughs for a couple years. Unfortunately, in the long run it is not good news. That is a downside of business, but it is not really AA's fault. It is bad that 3000 people will lose their jobs, and completely regrettable.

As for STL, it would be nice to see AA continue to operate it, but they have a hub so close (ORD) that it might not be reasonable. That said, they do not have a responsibility to operate it if costs can be cut through elimination. This is a bad time for ALL airlines (save WN and JB). There is going to be bad news like this from time to time.
 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 5:42 am

Ok, If this is a note to self, why are you posting it here.

I used to hate AA based on their business decisions, but now I won't mind flying them if they are going my way. Their business decisions should not affect your flying them. I admit, AA does do some pretty messed up stuff, but I choose not to worry about it and if Don Carty wants to lay them off, let him. If it is a good decision, you will notice. If it was a bad decision, it will come back to bite him in the butt. Don't let it affect you in any way.
Puhdiddle
 
AA 777
Posts: 706
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:34 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 5:43 am

The people who say that they will never fly AA, will fly them as soon as they have the best price  Insane

AA 777
Matt
CRJ-700 FO
 
RoastedNutz
Posts: 195
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2001 12:18 pm

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 5:47 am

if Don Carty wants to lay them off, let him. If it is a good decision, you will notice. If it was a bad decision, it will come back to bite him in the butt.

Don Carty laid himself off a while back, remember?

 
Guest

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 6:27 am

Threads like this make me mad.

I was as much a TWA fan as anybody else. I have several close friends who were furloughed by AA after the merger or who have family members who were furloughed. Yes, it is a very sad situation. However, when it comes down to it, many people had jobs for longer than they would have without the merger. For the situation afterward.... you can blame the unions for that, namely the TWA ALPA MEC chair. The industry is in an unfortunate situation. You want lower fares? The network carriers have to shrink, cut costs, cut lesser profitable routes, and that means cutting labor. I could go on and lay the blame for some cuts at major carriers with the LCCs, but that would be childish.

The TWA people I have encountered over the years are some of the most resilient folks in the industry. As one TWA Captain put it to me, "When AA starts sinking, it's the TWAers who know how to swim." This is truly a terrible time for many people and hopefully they work through it.

What I absolutely do not agree with here is this "I'm not flying AA because...." crap. If you truly cared, you'd support the airline in its turnaround and pull for AA's future. Only after a turnaround can the recalls start.
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 6:30 am

The public could care less, one way or the other how airline employees are treated, which is why Union propoganda or company propoganda-in most lines of work, are like putting an ice cube on a hotplate, far as the public is concerned.

Whether I or you or anyone likes how the TW employees are being treated-and I certainly think it was planned that way from the time the merger took place-is irrelevant. The public doesn't care, as long as they get cheap flights that are on time.
 
AA717driver
Posts: 1502
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 8:27 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:10 am

Bucky--Please keep in mind that the scope was forcibly taken from the TWA pilots. If we hadn't surrendered the scope, we were threatened with having our entire contract taken.

Would YOU want to work for AA without a collective bargaining agreement?

Kind of like the threats used by the company in the recent negotiations. Got A-Plan? Big grinTC
FL450, M.85
 
LV
Posts: 1546
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 6:02 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:24 am

Well, I was going to post this as a seperate thread but after reading this felt it fit in perfectly.

The St. Louis Post Dispatch was of course screaming bloody murder on the front page this morning, here is links to two articles, the first was the above the fold front page story this morning. It even bumped the daily above the fold Palestine-Israel story to below the fold (never understood why the Post Dispatch has a Palestine-Israel story on the front page everyday, but that's non-av so I won't touch it right now)

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/BA45B0C3E81194C086256D57001132C3?OpenDocument&Headline=Airline+hints+at+threat+to+hub+here+++

and here was a story on the front page of the business section this morning

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/business/columnists.nsf/David+Nicklaus/6B2CA5770E957B3686256D57004C679B?OpenDocument&Headline=Reservation+agents+could+be+next+on+American's+hit+list
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:39 am

I generally wouldn't fly AA because of my location and their cost. Delta can get me from Huntsville, AL to Norfolk, VA for about $280. Connect through Atlanta and you're all set.

American?

Not only did they want $845 for a ticket, I would've had to go HSV to DFW to O'Hare to Norfolk, taking all day to get there. Then on the way back, Norfolk to DFW to O'Hare and back to Huntsville. MRTC is nice, but not worth that.

Uh uh. That's just one example, but it turned out that Delta was even cheaper than Southwest (on SWA I would've had to stay in a hotel overnight and drive 90 miles to Nashville).

In this example, among all of the carriers available to me (I priced Delta, AA, UAL, CO, SW, NW, all of them), Delta was the sensible choice. Except I couldn't get a bass clarinet that would fit aboard the plane so I've decided to drive 750 miles to Norfolk (I'm playing in the National Intercollegiate Band). Go me. Hope I don't fall asleep while driving.
 
Guest

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:48 am

MD-90,
I don't see how that's relevant to this thread. Obviously if AA doesn't fit your schedule, don't fly it. The prices are just related to demand in the market.
 
tekelberry
Posts: 1309
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 6:37 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 8:23 am

What will happen to American Connection if the STL hub was trashed? Will AMR end their contracts with Chatauqua, Trans States & Executive or will they just move to ORD and fly parallel to American Eagle?
 
AASTEW
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:47 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 9:15 am

Ask any TWA employee if they were crying foul on their way to the bank. I'm sure we would never hear that from a TWA LLC employee. No matter what work group they were in they all received excellent pay raises.

Furthermore, AA or other carriers shouldn't be blamed for our industry woes. Blame terrorists, sagging economy, and customers just wanting the lowest fare. When AA decided to ACQUIRE (not merge) TWA's fine assets, they didn't have a crystal ball of 9/11, sagging economy, nor the LCC Boom. If none of these situatations wouldn't have ever happened we would be seeing AA/TWA dominant the airline industry. These two carriers have ALWAYS been pioneers in the industry.

I believe AA is on the right track for a great turnaround.

Face it people our industry must restructure! Consequently, this may cause heartache to some employees and customers.

AASTEW LGA
 
LMP737
Posts: 4859
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 10:49 am

Planefreak:

Here are some facts for you.

1)Purchasing TWA was a mistake.
2)TWA would have gone the way of Pan AM, Braniff etc if it were not for the merger with AA. Then ALL TWA employees would have been on the street.
3)AA would be in a much better position financially if they had not purchased TWA. Not only did it cost a chunk of money for the initial purchase but it costs AA everyday in terms of added operational costs. What I mean by that is the cost of integrating TWA aircraft into AA's fleet and things like that.
4)Did it ever enter you're mind what the average AA employee thinks of this mess? Of course you didn't.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 11:24 am

No matter what work group they were in they all received excellent pay raises.

Great, AASTEW, and now that most of them don't have employment, thanks to AA's management, that planned to get rid of them all along, they can REALLY enjoy that excellent pay raise. (dripping with sarcasm)

Furthermore, AA or other carriers shouldn't be blamed for our industry woes.

For some of it, no. The drop in loads in the spring/summer of '01, and the devistating after-effect of 9/11 were out of the industry's hands. But the industry, as a whole, waited too damned long to start trimming fat and tightening the belts, imho, instead looking to the Feds for constant bailouts. Some government money was justified, especially for the 4 days after 9/11 when the system was shut down. Other than that, many carriers just seemed to go along as "business as usual". AA and UA seemed to be two of those-already losing big money, they didn't seem to move quickly enough to stem the red ink.
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6789
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 12:07 pm



Thank you Tekelberry and Bucky707 and AIR757200 and others for your thoughts.

Obviously you put more thought and TRUTH into the thread rather than throw out rambling thoughts without merit.


Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
flyingbronco05
Posts: 3484
Joined: Fri May 10, 2002 11:43 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 12:18 pm

Note To Self: Never Fly AA

If you do fly them, it will help save the employees from being layed off.

So instead of not flying AA and hurting an already struggling airline, why don't you be a good person and fly them to help them out, which in turn will keep air fares down.

FB05
Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13224
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 12:26 pm

TWA never recovered from the flight 800 tragedy, in the mid-late 1990s while other airlines were making record profits TWA was dragging through.

If AA had not purchased TWA they would have folded anyway, atleast some folks are able to say they still have a job. If AA did not purchase TWA and they had gone under no one would have a job.

It's tragic, but they will get through.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 12:41 pm

If the ex-TWA employees want to blame anyone for their plight, they should blame the incompetent TW mgmt that ran TW into the ground from deregulation inception right thru to the AA buyout. AA is the saviour here, not the problem.

Had AA not bought TW, does anyone honestly think TW could have survived thru 9-11 on its own (when it was already on its last legs)?

TW was in trouble long before the TW800 mishap btw.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 12:47 pm

I was just pointing out an example of why I personally don't fly AA.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 1:02 pm

Would TWA have survived with out the AA buy out? We will never actually know, now will we, we can speculate till the cows come home. Do we like how it was handled and the eventual outcome, no! Is it any different than how other mergers had been handled in the past, do not think so. Are the feelings more on the surface because of 9-11, the present economy, AA's much documented lies and cover ups, why trying on one hand to secure cost savings all the while lining the pockets of upper management and hoping no one would find out. Pick a reason there are more than enough to go around. The bottom line is with any Company you are going to make hard decisions and at no time will you be able to please each and every person. Also this whole industry has been changed forever, and to some change is hard to take. Is it the fault of the LCC's, the unions, upper management, over capacity, 9-11.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
AmericanF100
Posts: 235
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2001 1:24 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 1:06 pm

I agree that what AA is doing doesn't seem like it's fair. But then reading about how the TWA employees agreed to this thing about seniority and no protection etc. it seems like they shouldn't be complaining. It was completely obvious that from the moment they acquired TWA they were gonna care more about the original AA employees more than the TWA employees. The TWA employees could have done more to help it (if im understanding what has been written). Also look on the side that, as terrible as it is, would it be better to have all AA's employees laid off or just the TWA employees? It's a sticky situation.

Matt~
 
AA717driver
Posts: 1502
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 8:27 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:10 pm

What killed TWA was a combination of an intransigent union(IAM), lousy management(everyone up through 1996) and, because of the lousy management, going back to Carl Icahn to borrow money which created the Karabu ticket monster that eventually broke TWA's back.

Under Karabu, Icahn could sell an unlimited number of TWA tickets of which TWA received 55% of face value(Carl could sell them at whatever price above 55% he wanted). 1996 was interesting because TWA had turned a corner financially--even Wall Street was touting it. That summer was to be the first really big one for travel since the first Gulf War. TWA went shopping for additional lift. Available were 4 747-200's in good shape. Also available were 4 hodgepodge 747-100's with incompatable galleys and entertainment systems.

Guess which one's TWA's management chose? Continental scooped up the -200's while TWA was counting its beans. The result was a summer of discontent and the 4 747's finally made it to the line in the Fall. The airline was overscheduled and understaffed. JFK Int'l. was a mess daily. Flt. 800 was a minor player in the financial debacle unfolding that summer.

Once Carl got his hooks back into the company, it was only a matter of time until he completed his mission of sucking the life out of TWA.TC
FL450, M.85
 
cwapilot
Posts: 1085
Joined: Mon May 01, 2000 7:10 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Thu Jul 03, 2003 10:14 pm

Far from a "I Hate AA" person, I have to say, after giving them a chance on my most recent trip after years of travel amlmost exclusively on UA, I have to say that I will have to think twice before flying them again. Service and attitude onboard, with the exception of the 2 St. Louis-based crews we flew with on the way to HNL, was absolutely HORRIBLE. The way there, and the way back was like being on 2 separate carriers.

From the time we checked in until the time we deplaned in Chicago, all we heard about was how they were shorthanded. Three separate announcements by flight attendants, basically giving them an excuse to be nasty (we are 2 short, so deal with it), followed by a rather forceful announcement from the pilot, basically sit down, shut up and "cooperate." Every passenger request was met with a smart remark, rolling eyes, or a "Don't you feel like a slave?" comment from one F/A to another. Several beverage choices were exhausted before the end of the first beverage service. One of the dinner choices supposedly "ran out", yet we clearly saw several of the F/A's eating a couple of the supposedly "run out" entrees each in the rear galley. Professionals who actually give a shit about their customers suck it up and do the best they can, not piss and moan in plain sight and sound of their customers and provide lousy service. By a certain point in the flight, they stayed in the back galley and people had to come to them, as they stopped responding to calls! I won't even get into the high school cafeteria/social club that is the AmericanEagle terminal at O'Hare...VERY unprofessional (chatting rather than working, slapping each other, talking about prior evening escapades, fighting over who takes what gates/flights...all in plain view of every paying customer sitting at the gates!).

UA has had its problems, but NEVER on I don't know how many flights to any number of places did I EVER see anything like this. Air crews on this board claim to be professionals...bringing labor disputes and consequent pissy attitudes to your customers, perhaps in an effort to put pressure on management, is NOT professional. I have a hard time feeling sorry for anyone at AA any time I remember any of those F/A's faces. If management has made any mistakes at AA, it is in allowing people like these to ride the gravy train for so long. For those "slaves" aboard AA72, I am sure there are thousands of their (former) colleagues sitting at home, or soon to be sitting at home, who would now kill for a shot at being able to work an aircraft shorthanded for a flight. Completely different attitude detected at UA, where it seems the employees' attitudes and efforts at improvement are much more successful at gaining them support and sympathy from the general public.
Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
 
HPA318
Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 1999 2:31 pm

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:19 am

Everyone seems to forget that we did not only acquire FA's from TWA, we got a slew of people from different depts. A lot of whom still have jobs and are doing quite alright, because i work with many of them everyday. Unfortunately the FA's got the boot but lets think about it, these ex TWA FA's already had a successful and satisfying aviation career that for most lasted at least 25 years. Most, if not all were heading for retirement very soon anyway. I overheard some FA's talking the other day and one had 34 years seniority the other 29 years, you would think after so many years of flying and going through bankruptcies, pay freeze, and other things they would end their careers already. Some of them honestly should not have been flying.
Its sad but that bussiness today in the world we live in.
 
tekelberry
Posts: 1309
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 6:37 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:23 am

Cwapilot,

If you have a damn problem with one of your flights, WE can't do anything about it! Has it ever occured to you that the only people that can help you with this problem is AA customer service? I'm sick of these kinds of threads ("Never fly xx because xxxxxxxxxx"). They're useless, immature and stupid.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:29 am

Hpa318
These FA's that had 29 and 34 years flying should just retire? Lets see who you feel after you doing a job you love for this period of time and the choice is not yours. They put up with the good and bad because they loved what they were doing. And the choice to retire should have been there's to make.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
E1FAIL
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 7:36 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:33 am

cwapilot,

They all wear nametags. Write down the names of the employees and a brief description of the situation and send it to the company. Believe it or not, it works.
 
ZSSNC
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:33 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:46 am

Cwapilot,

that is what my host parents experienced on their AA ORD/FRA/ORD flights. The pilots told them to remain seated under all circumstances (not due to whether but due to security concerns). They told me that they even had to ask for permission to go to the toilet. Is it only me who finds that ridiculous? My host parents came to the conclusion that despite MRTC UA is the better choice across the Atlantic. I have never flown with AA but I didn't experience anything like the above on my UA FRA/ORD/CLE/ORD/FRA flights this spring. UA flight attendants were very nice and always keen to help you. I didn't have to ask for permission to go to the toilet either. Big grin

ZSSNC
Airbus A340-600 - the longest temptation in the sky
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Fri Jul 04, 2003 2:10 am

E1FAIL,

What will you get from writing a letter? Miles? upgrades? Maybe.
But, if you think that writing a letter will get granny fired, think again.
That is the problem, they will not retire, nor will they leave until one day
they croak. The majors need new blood, and these old bags need to go!
Because they are just taking it all down with them.
"The low fares airline."
 
tekelberry
Posts: 1309
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 6:37 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Fri Jul 04, 2003 2:34 am

ZSSNC,

That sounds nothing like AA.
 
AIR757200
Posts: 1466
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 8:30 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Fri Jul 04, 2003 7:36 am


While writing a letter doesn't appear to have any effect, it does to some extent. You can give warnings, etc. but sometimes you just can't shape up someone who is not performing. Firing someone due to lack of performance isn't that easy today (i.e.. job protection, unions, etc...). Think automotive industry, my cousin was telling me of tons of things that go on and these offenders still have jobs (jaw-dropping incidents!!). Many other industries are the same (pro-union ones?). Now I'm not saying it's the union's fault.

From what I know, for agents, letters received from headquarters are forwarded to the agent's station manager, then forwarded to the direct supervisor. At the end of the "cycle", it goes in the employee's personnel file. And I've seen a few agents "shape-up" after a talk with management.

The best thing to do is to jot names down of those who you think are slackers and don't forget to jot the names of those who are helpful. Positive letters are great too!  Smile
 
E1FAIL
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 7:36 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Fri Jul 04, 2003 8:15 am

It probably won/t get you upgrades, but that is not the point. It probably won/t get major disciplinary action for the offender either...at first. But if enough letters are written about an individual, it WILL get noticed. Believe me.

As far as union protection goes, the FA's have it, the American/Eagle gate agents don't.

BTW, my department posts all comment letters received on a bulletin board for all to read. (with the names blacked out) Don/t believe for a second that they do this without a comment to the individual first.
 
cwapilot
Posts: 1085
Joined: Mon May 01, 2000 7:10 am

RE: Note To Self: Never Fly AA

Fri Jul 04, 2003 9:55 am

Tekelberry: Talk about immature and stupid! If you don't like a post, don't read it. Also, show me one time in my post where I stated that I would never again fly AA, or told anyone else not to. And, I'm sorry, it is not just one flight. There was a reason for me going over to UA for such a long period of time to begin with, namely that, for a string of about 6 consecutive trips, AA lost my baggage or my gf/now wife's baggage EVERY TIME, with no apologies, just nasty attitude. I actually decided to give this company another chance and, from what I can see, except for former TWA employees, this carrier has not progressed in the customer service arena in nearly 12 years! Letters never did any good in the past...why will they now?! I don't want to get upgrades or free miles or vouchers from someone who cares about nothing but getting me away from the counter or off the phone as soon as possible, each time their co-workers majorly screw up on a flight...I don't want some F/a's head mounted on my wall...I want decent....not even exemplary...service at the time. And, btw, I am not the scream-my-head off jackass making unreasonable, frequent demands, either! I think in all my time of flying, I have pressed a flight attendant call button ONE TIME, so that the F/a chatting with a friend two aisles back would come and take my garbage so I could put up my tray for landing. All these other things (miles, vouchers, etc) do is set you up for further abuse! Your comments are exactly the attitude customers get when contacting AA "customer service" as well...if you don't work for them yet, you should really consider applying.

The thread is about problems at AA...while employees and enthusiasts can go on and on about management and their screwups, the employees do themselves no good by acting the way these old bags do, or the good ones putting themselves in league with and tolerating the nasty ones. It's too bad so many of the former TWA people are facing the axe....it's too bad for the customers and too bad for AA...besides assets, they could have gained some customer care expertise from the TWA organization. UA is far from perfect, but with AA, it seems like whenever it seems like nothing worse can happen, they really surprise you the next time. AA's problem is that people are not willing to pay the prices they would demand to break even, for what they see as mediocre service, at best. Using 20/20 hindsight, I would have paid the extra $50 per ticket UA was asking just to get that higer level of friendly service.

AIR757200....Unfortunately, it is the Union's fault, as much as it is management's fault. I belong to a union, mainly for the free legal coverage and liablity insurance that membership provides. (Also, whether or not I pay dues, I would benefit from the annual contract negotiations the union members worth through themselves, so I feel obligated to pay my share.) This is in the education field. I have seen how the union tends to prolong or preserve the careers of some people who do not belong teaching our next generation of citizens. Hell, there is no reason for them ever to be around children, period! Even when union members have grievances against other union members for conduct on the job, and has the backing of management, the union will back the wrongdoer merely because the management has backed up the complaints of the person grieving. Any proposed changes in work rules, even if developed by joint management/employee committees, is dismissed out of hand. Unions are engines of stagnation, as much as poor management.



Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!