David_itl
Topic Author
Posts: 5950
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

Night Time Flights At LHR To Continue

Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:07 pm

The UK govenrment has won an appeal over a 2001 European Court of Human Rights banning of night flights which were said to have "violated the rights of local residents".

I'm sure that residents round regional airports would have instigated proceedings against those airports had the appeal been rejected.

More on the story here.

David
 
noelg
Posts: 2313
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2002 11:39 pm

RE: Night Time Flights At LHR To Continue

Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:24 pm

Finally some sense into the whole "night flight" argument.

I have never figured out how the government can seriously listen to these NIMBYs (Not In My Back Yard) who can move into a house at a vastly reduced price next to a major international airport, and then complain about the planes flying overhead, preventing the house price from rising and disturbing their sleep.

I'm sorry but YOU CHOSE TO LIVE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!! They don't complain when they want to go on holiday and can fly from just around the corner!  Pissed

It's equivalant to someone moving next door to a motorway and complaining about the noise from the road. The same as someone moving next to a railway and complaining about the trains - if they all started where would we end up? An entire country coming to a halt at night for the sake of a few people?  Nuts

Thats it - rant over!

NoelG

 Smokin cool
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Night Time Flights At LHR To Continue

Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:46 pm

Most of the NIMBYs are those who live in Barnes,Putney etc Why the hell do they think they are so put out?It's no loud out there at all!I'm glad national interests have been put ahead of those of the Henrietta brigade.
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Night Time Flights At LHR To Continue

Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:48 pm

The biggest threat to the expansion of UK airports is not bureacracy or politics, but selfish NIMBY's.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
EGGD
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RE: Night Time Flights At LHR To Continue

Wed Jul 09, 2003 12:01 am

They are a load of selfish bastards, we have the same problem here in Bristol where a)they want more flights from Bristol b)they won't allow expansion of BRS and c)they won't allow the use of FZO as a commercial airport and d)they won't let the authorities build a new airport at Pilning.
 
LHR340
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RE: Night Time Flights At LHR To Continue

Wed Jul 09, 2003 1:07 am

OK I live what 10minutes away from LHR planes are flying over all the time whilst I am asleep they do not disturb me at all apart from 1 or 2 and that's on takeoff when they are much louder than if they we're landing...I watched it earlier on the news and was practically shouting at the TV, governments are not going to ban night flights or any kind of flights because it means money from tourism! They think they will win but they won't, and night flights stop at like 12 anyway.

LHR340
A340 LoVeR! EC-GQK - LHR The Bussiest International Airport & 3rd Bussiest In The World!
 
qantas744
Posts: 1658
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 6:25 pm

RE: Night Time Flights At LHR To Continue

Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:04 am

It's only noisy for me when 09R is used for take offs and an MD-88 or something similar goes out, it certainly isn't disturbing in a serious sense. In all honesty the only thing I have to complain about is the vast sums of money that my local council has wasted as it subsidised the legal fees of the applicants-meanwhile ;ocal services continue to decline whilst the council tax goes up.

I've just found a link to the report so I'll have a look at the details shortly but every one of the complainants that I have read about so far moved to their property within the last 15 years.....it's not as if Heathrow didn't exist before 1988 is it.



Matt
you can't buy time but you can sell your soul and the closest thing to heaven is to rock'n'roll
 
Rick767
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RE: Night Time Flights At LHR To Continue

Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:10 am

Qantas744 makes a good point, guess who paid all the legal costs for this case? Yes - us!! The government paid all the costs from this latest trip to the courts.

HACAN should be made to pay if they were so confident they would succeed against the big boys. Why should I pay for their whining?!
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
qantas744
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Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 6:25 pm

RE: Night Time Flights At LHR To Continue

Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:02 am

They were claiming £150,00 in legal fees but the courts only awarded them 50,000 Euros.....to be paid by the UK taxpayer.


Matt
you can't buy time but you can sell your soul and the closest thing to heaven is to rock'n'roll
 
GDB
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Night Time Flights At LHR To Continue

Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:27 am

Don't get me started on the councils surrounding LHR!
Shit, they should do an exchange with councils in areas of high unemployment and deprivation.
I live very close to LHR, but I've friends under the flightpath, they don't understand all the fuss.
But of course it is the wealthier types who know how to work the legal system, in a search for compensation no doubt.
I'd also love to see the amount of 'unnecessary leisure traffic' (as HACAN and co describe it), generated from the areas complaining.
Oh I get it, people living near LTN, LGW and STN don't count?
 
qantas744
Posts: 1658
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 6:25 pm

RE: Night Time Flights At LHR To Continue

Wed Jul 09, 2003 5:12 pm

Some choice quotes from the report:


"Ruth Hatton was born in 1963. Between 1991 and 1997 she lived in East Sheen with her husband and two children.

Peter Thake was born in 1965. From 1990 until 1998, he lived in Hounslow with his partner. His home in Hounslow was situated 4.4 km from Heathrow airport and slightly to the north of the southern flight path.

John Hartley was born in 1948 and has lived with his wife at his present address in Richmond since 1989.

Philippa Edmunds was born in 1954 and lives with her husband and two children in East Twickenham. She has lived at her present address since 1992.

John Cavalla was born in 1925. From 1970 to 1996 he lived with his wife in Isleworth, directly under the flight path of the northern runway at Heathrow.

Jeffray Thomas was born in 1928 and lives in Kew with his wife and two sons, and the wife and son of one of those sons. The family have lived at their present address since 1975, in a house lying between the north and south Heathrow flight paths. According to the Government, it is 10.7 km from Heathrow.

Richard Bird was born in 1933 and lived in Windsor for 30 years until he retired in December 1998. His house in Windsor was directly under the westerly flight path to Heathrow airport. According to the Government, it was 11.5 km from Heathrow.

Tony Anderson was born in 1932 and has lived since 1963 in Touchen End, under the approach to runway 09L at Heathrow airport and, according to the Government."


Maybe the last guy could say he was there before the airport got really big, but IMO none of the others can say they were there before it was noisy. I've only only been living here for two years but even I notice how it has got quieter in that time, less MD-80's, no more scheduled 737 classics, no more Balkan flights, all BA747 classics withdrawn and soon no more Concorde.

The argument these leeches were putting forward was that the change in night flights quotas in 1993 was an intrusion on their human rights etc, of course these people are entitled to a good nights sleep-but so are the rest of us, and in the areas immediately around LHR (i.e. the noisiest) such as Feltham, Staines, Hounslow and Hayes large numbers of people do not have the luxury of a normal sleep pattern because they have to work at 5 am or through the night to deliver the post, open up the train stations, sweep the streets or , heaven forbid, work at Heathrow. Undisturbed sleep is asvaluable to them as it should be to everyone else so for a ban on night flights to be truly egalitarian it would require a curfew from 2000hrs to 1100hrs evry day.

Here's the report:

http://www.hacan.org.uk/learn/ECHRJudgement.htm

Read Section 1: The facts of the case to what they were complaining about.



And the final result:

The Uk Governments position was upheld by-

12 votes to 5 in respect of Article 8 (Breach of human rights)

16 votes to 1 in respect of Article 13 (Response of government to Article 8)

15 votes to 2 in respect of Article 14 (Compensation)

£4000 was granted to each complainant as compensation plus the costs listed in an earlier post.



Matt


you can't buy time but you can sell your soul and the closest thing to heaven is to rock'n'roll
 
LHR340
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 1:18 am

RE: Night Time Flights At LHR To Continue

Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:32 pm

BTW, have the complainers ever thought of double glazing, or closing there windows? So how come there are more complaints coming from the London area instead of people living near the airport (Staines, Feltham, Hounslow etc)...Because they realize they live next to the busiest international airport (and 4th busiest) and get over it!

LHR340
A340 LoVeR! EC-GQK - LHR The Bussiest International Airport & 3rd Bussiest In The World!
 
Arsenal@LHR
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Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: Night Time Flights At LHR To Continue

Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:44 pm

And i wonder how many times these same people have jetted away on their holidays using Heathrow?
In Arsene we trust!!
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Night Time Flights At LHR To Continue

Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:49 pm

I was on the radio last night talking about this, it was a ridiculous case and a complete waste of time. As I pointed out last night on the show, aero engines get quieter every generation, and more to the point, I have a railway line behind my flat, a main road in front, and car alarms going off every night. And I'm not suing my council or British Rail or the road people.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz

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