Delta777Jet
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Would The B-777 Fit With Lufthansa?

Wed Jul 09, 2003 6:59 pm

As a former employee of Lufthansa, we always got the information that LH is buying Airbus and Boeing planes due to competition as they don`t won`t to get price ruled by just one manufacture.

The last planes Lufthansa got from Boeing where some B-747`s.
And the remaining 737`s are being phased out (slowly).

Why doesn`t Lufthansa buy the B-777 to replace the 4 engined A-340 on the middle eastern routes? Does the A-330 (of course it is similar to the A-340) have the range and capacity like an 777 especially in cargo as Lufthansa if being a big cargo carrier as well. ????
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sk
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RE: Would The B-777 Fit With Lufthansa?

Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:07 pm

Well I guess the capacity is not used at all, so the Airbus 330 is fine on these routes.

I heard two rumors concerning LH und Boeing. The older one is, that LH Cargo possibly order some 777 as freighter. The other one, that LH will replace the 737 with 717. The 717 would then be used on routes to and from peripheral airports (STR, DUS etc.) because of the lower operational costs.

If this one is true - we may see a large order of 717 soon.
 
sabenapilot
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RE: Would The B-777 Fit With Lufthansa?

Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:09 pm

Would the B777 fit LH?
Most probably YES. They might use some for a handful of selected routes where a B747 is a bit to big and an A330 is just somewhat too small. (range has nothing to do with it in my feeling; it is only about seat and cargo capacity)
Will LH take any B777 then?
NO Without any doubt.
Why not?
They might need around 10 of them, certainly not more, but a fleet of only 10 B777 in such a big Airbus fleet is most likely going to cost them much more than the few extra euros the use of those B777 would generate.
LH will use the A340-600 in stead.
 
noelg
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RE: Would The B-777 Fit With Lufthansa?

Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:26 pm

Don't forget that now the majority of the LH fleet is Airbus, so throwing a few more Boings into the works would most likely prove quite costly. (easier to have crews cross trained on all Airbus than a combination, maintenance costs, compatibility of parts etc)...

Are LH looking to get rid of the rest of their 744s?

Noel
 
Andreas
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RE: Would The B-777 Fit With Lufthansa?

Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:33 pm

Not in the midterm noel, they couldn't do it, it's still their largest aircraft that is needed on several routes, in the long term after A380 is operational...well who knows.


B777 freighters: Yes possibly, it depends on the deal. Please remember how LH became MD-11F operator: There were a few new aircraft, at a price that they just couldn't refuse, so if a deal on 777 came up...why not?
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
na
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RE: Would The B-777 Fit With Lufthansa?

Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:51 pm

Whith the same right one could ask you if Delta would be fit to buy A340s.


And to answer Noelg: "Are LH looking to get rid of the rest of their 744s?"
Rest of what? They never sold a single one. And the newest one is just a year old. The 744 is LHs longhaul backbone. I guess only some early built ones from 1989 might leave when the A380 will be introduced in 4 years time (or some will be converted to freighters). It would be a surprise if less than half of the current LH Jumbo fleet would be gone before 2010.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Would The B-777 Fit With Lufthansa?

Wed Jul 09, 2003 9:02 pm

I never understood some of these airlines like Cathay, Air France etc that go out and buy A330s, A340s, 777s and 744s plus the stretches of some of those planes.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Would The B-777 Fit With Lufthansa?

Wed Jul 09, 2003 9:14 pm

If you're talking 777-200ER, I really doubt LH wants them because the airline already has a plane with fairly similar cargo/pax capacity: the A340-300. LH's fleet is mostly Airbus planes anyway, and I expect LH to slowly phase out their 747-400 fleet in favor of a mix between the A340-600 and A380-800 starting in 2008.

However, I DO think LH has expressed considerable interest in the Boeing 7E7. Besides full LD3 container compatibility, the 7E7 would be perfect to replace the A300B/A310 fleet for LH's busier European routes and also for expansion to destinations where even the A330-200 is too big.
 
UN_B732
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RE: Would The B-777 Fit With Lufthansa?

Wed Jul 09, 2003 9:51 pm

Perhaps a Lufthansa 717 order...could help save an ailing line.
-UN
What now?
 
N79969
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RE: Would The B-777 Fit With Lufthansa?

Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:27 pm

In my view, LH is single most committed A340 operator in the world. Correct me if there is another operator that is devoted to 340 than LH. Even Air France opted for 772ER/773ER instead of more 340 when time came for incremental orders. I think it would be pointless for them to change direction now.

 
sabenapilot
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RE: Would The B-777 Fit With Lufthansa?

Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:31 pm

N79969,

What about Virgin Atlantic?

remember their slogan: 4 engines 4 longhaul....
 
Andreas
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RE: Would The B-777 Fit With Lufthansa?

Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:39 pm

As far as 340 is concerned, yes (it's 28 343s and 3 342s, though I'm not sure if the 342s are currently flying).
Besides: LH was launch customer of 340.
But 7E7 as a replacement for the 300/310 fleet (God, I'll miss each and every one of them, having flown on each so many times  Sad) is a viable solution that fits the timeframe, and I do have the feeling that LH's already published interest in this aircraft is genuine. There's just no alternative in the Airbus program.

As for 777 Freighter: I've heard these speculations quite often in the last 12-18 months, let some carrier go belly-up or just cancel an order, and Boeing is not able to find another buyer...that's basically how they ended up flying MD-11

[Edited 2003-07-09 15:43:28]
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
N79969
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RE: Would The B-777 Fit With Lufthansa?

Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:44 pm

Sabenapilot,

I would say that LH takes the cake still because of the size of their 340 fleet:

28 343
6 342
10(?) 346 (on order)

The VS 340 fleet is much smaller I believe. Also any airline willing to keep the 342 at all must really like the 340. That airplane has been dumped by Air France, Air Tahiti, and perhaps others because of its poor economics.

I think the 340 program would have been in trouble without a large, world-class airline like LH behind it. They are the anchor of the program.
 
N79969
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RE: Would The B-777 Fit With Lufthansa?

Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:48 pm

UPS is also supposedly interested in 777LRF airplanes.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Would The B-777 Fit With Lufthansa?

Thu Jul 10, 2003 3:12 pm

Those 342's are slowly going to South African now, they have 3 and will get another 2? SAA will then replace them with the 343 in the next 2 years. I doubt they will fly for LH again.

Yes LH do seem fairly commited to the 340 with close to 30 in service aswell as 10 346's on order which will be used for expansion.

I guess a 777F would have a similar capacity to the MD11F? Maybe?
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Would The B-777 Fit With Lufthansa?

Thu Jul 10, 2003 3:24 pm

ZK-NBT,

Given the fact that LH likes the A340-300 on their thinner intercontinental routes, I wouldn't be surprised that some of the ex-SQ A340-313X's end up in LH service within 24 months.
 
airways
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RE: Would The B-777 Fit With Lufthansa?

Thu Jul 10, 2003 4:08 pm

LH Cargo was in contact with Boeing about a possible 777 freigther. They're looking for a suitable replacement for their 742Fs. But LH Cargo is looking at many aircraft and the 777F is just an option.

Furthermore, Boeing is obviously not very interested in a freigther version of the 777 right now. They're pushing the 744F. But I'm sure the 777F will be on the desks again within some years.

Michael
http://airsider.net
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Would The B-777 Fit With Lufthansa?

Thu Jul 10, 2003 4:18 pm

Thats a good point Ray! How many of those SQ343's have not been sold yet or found a new operator?
 
na
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RE: Would The B-777 Fit With Lufthansa?

Thu Jul 10, 2003 4:46 pm

I think LH Cargo has more urgent fleetplans than the 777F. This bird wouldn´t make a good replacement for the 747-200F, only for the MD11Fs. And they´re still pretty new and certainly not meant to go before 2010. For the 742F-replacement the only aircraft on the market is the 744F.

ZK-NBT,
I don´t know exact numbers of ex-SIA Airbusses still parked, but two ex-SIA A343s just went to Gulf Air last month, others to CX two years ago.

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