Posts: 1918
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

Some TWA Info (Cities/ People)

Fri Jul 11, 2003 3:15 pm

Hi, I was wondering what TWA's Largest cities in their networks were, with the number of daily departures, and destinations served. I know STL obviously was their largest, and they had a smaller hub in JFK. But I've heard they had smaller "Satellite Cities" (Focus cities) in MSP, LAX...etc.
Did they ever fly to Asia or the Pacific? I've heard they had an extensive amount of Trans Atlantic services?
What about their Caribbean network? I've seen pictures of their 747s in SJU. Were the 747s regulars in SJU?
Also I know TWA used to fly PDX-ANC and I believe SEA-ANC and maybe MSP-ANC on the 57 but I wasn't sure. IT was extremely sad to see them go, but I am interested to learn more about them, as I only flew them a couple of times in 2001 before they left.
Also is a good part of AA's current crews former TWA crews? Or have most of the TWA crews left with TWA as they weren't fond of AA's wonderful attitude towards them (Sarcasism)? And was TWA the only carrier in the U.S. to have the 757s with the drop down LCD monitors? (I know the aircraft were pretty new) And are all the 757s still with AA?
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RE: As Time Goes By: Many 767s Bound For Scrapping

Fri Jul 11, 2003 3:37 pm

Geez, where to start.

No focus city in MSP. Just a lot of STL-MSP roundtrips. Only focus cities were SJU and LAX(which never really got going due to the interruption by the AA acquisition).

Good part of AA's crews former TWA? Not quite. Maybe 10% of the pre-buyout employee group at TWA remains. All FA's gone. As of 5/04, 75% of pilot group gone. Don't know about ramp, mech and agents... Started with 20,000 employees in 2001. Now it's probably 2,000--and that's before MCI gets whacked this month.

Trans-Atlantic? Holy S**t! You need to bone up on aviation history. Had around the world network in the 70's. Flights would leave both eastbound and westbound and circle the globe. Bombay, HKG, Guam, Riyadh, Cairo. Intra-Europe with 727's. HKG and CDG-based FA's. I think they had 25 747's when I got hired in '88. There were 35 L1011's.

Anyone else?TC
FL450, M.85

RE: Some TWA Info (Cities/ People)

Fri Jul 11, 2003 9:03 pm

The international routes are too numerous to name, but TWA used to be extensive around the world with service to Europe, Africa, Asia, and Australia.

Don't forget the Atlanta focus city of the mid-1990s. People actually connected there. They had about eight gates.

All of the ex-TWA B757s are currently with American, but about half will be removed and returned to their lessors before the conversion to AA-standard. The first converted B757 goes online with AA shortly.
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RE: Some TWA Info (Cities/ People)

Fri Jul 11, 2003 9:37 pm

Didn't TWA make Boston it's final focus city? If they didn't I know they were going to. Just to add, the 747's in San Juan came from JFK. TWA made a killing there especially with cargo down below. They really started to focus on the Caribbean in the final days with flights to places like Santo Domingo, Punta Cuna, and St. Marteen from EWR, BOS, and JFK. A lot of it was weekend service only. They were capturing the "time share" crowd.........sort of like what US Airways is doing today.
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RE: Some TWA Info (Cities/ People)

Fri Jul 11, 2003 10:02 pm

The ATL focus city offered a lot of CHEPA flight options, at least from DTW. IMHO - it was an introduction of things to come once they downsized ATL - AirTran.... I know that several times I booked very last minute and received great fares to Florida via ATL with TWA.
You can cut the irony with a knife
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Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: Some TWA Info (Cities/ People)

Fri Jul 11, 2003 10:16 pm

TWA's 757-200s have those LCD screens that come down from
the PSU, I have never seen any 757s with these screens on any
U.S. major. I like the TW's 757 because it has these screens and
because the main cabin is split into two sections, which makes it
MUCH better to work for the cabin crew. This is because they have
aft door exits, instead of window exits in the forward part of the
cabin like AA's 757 does. And since we are on the topic, it is quite
funny how AA painted these planes and look like they just painted
over them, because it looks like their peeling.

TW had some very cool routes. They had 747s coming into SJU all
the time, and packed. But by the end they just had 757 and a 767.
TW also had flight number one which left STL, and would circle the
globe, ending up back in STL. It would make a stop everywhere you
can think of, I am sure someone here knows where it did make stops.
In the end they also had a LAX-SJU flight which was on a 757, and
I know it was a pretty long flight for a 757, around six and a half hours
going, and eight coming back. As far as the last cities it served, they
had LGW,CDG,MXP and LIS in Europe. And, a bunch of Caribbean islands,
Hawaii,Alaska and Canada.

Well, maybe one day I can fly the former TW 757 in the new interior.
And maybe one day AA will pick up on some of the former TW
European routes, like LIS or ATH. That would be very cool, but...I can
only dream.
"The low fares airline."
Tan Flyr
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Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

RE: Some TWA Info (Cities/ People)

Fri Jul 11, 2003 10:37 pm

Some time back, at the time of AA acquiring TWA, someone on here or PB (I don't remember which, sorry) Had a link to a site that listed all the world wide route authorities that TW had. It was an amazing list. Many were never served, or just certain city pairs were, or some just in the 40's, 50's and early 60's. Some continued to be served by 707's 2 or 3 times per week. It was a complicated network.

To me it looked like Howard Hughes had negotiated quite a deal with FDR for many of these authorities for his help in WWII, as I recall the dates being in 1944 and 45.
I think TWA had(along with Pan AM) quite a bit of influence at a conference about post war civil aviation that took place in Chicago in 1944(I think).

While there is a lot of consternation right now about AA's purchase of TWA, one of the "diamonds in the rough" is this mountian of global route authorities.

These current tough times will not last forever, and I predict that someday we will see AA activate some of these long dormant routes for its new flight center at JFK. Then maybe the purchase will not look so ill-advised.
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RE: Some TWA Info (Cities/ People)

Fri Jul 11, 2003 10:41 pm

Continental's entire 757 fleet also has the drop down screens. I don't know of any other U.S carrier with 757 drop down screens.

Posts: 2181
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 12:16 pm

RE: Some TWA Info (Cities/ People)

Fri Jul 11, 2003 11:38 pm

I am looking at a TWA timetable from the 60's. Can you believe they flew to Iraq! Both Basra and Baghdad. Not to mention their flights to Kabul. My what 40 years can do. They did, however fly to Saudi Arabia from Cairo up until the AA purchase. And just a few years ago they were operating to Kuwait City.
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Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Some TWA Info (Cities/ People)

Sat Jul 12, 2003 2:10 am

I forgot about the short-lived TWA hub in ATL in the early 90s. I remember TPA-ATL flights with 727s. Where else did they fly from ATL?
Bill in ATL
Posts: 1918
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

RE: Some TWA Info (Cities/ People)

Sat Jul 12, 2003 2:59 am

WOW, thanks for the info guys, TWA really was a TRANS WORLD AIRLINE! I had no idea they served all those routes. So TWA aculty served Inter Middle Eastern routes (The Africa-Middle East) up until their time of purchase? I don't see why AA would cut all these off, Maybe to make the transformation into AA more smooth... who knows, I am still checking this post, So I would love to hear more! THanks
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RE: Some TWA Info (Cities/ People)

Sat Jul 12, 2003 2:59 am

TWA used to serve MKE-STL w/ SP80s and 717s. Now it's all AmericanConnection.

I know that's not very important to most of you, but I live here. :p
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RE: Some TWA Info (Cities/ People)

Sat Jul 12, 2003 3:28 am


TWA also had strong ties with LIS. They had strong competition with PAN AM until 1978 when PAN AM dropped LIS. TWA used to fly to Portugal and Spain in their flights, JFK/LIS/BCN and MAD, I recall that MAD was during winter time and BCN on summer times, they also had direct flights to MAD. They would arrive early morning from JFK, leave the LIS passengers, fly to Spain and at 12:00/13:00 they'll would be back already with passengers from those places, get LIS passengers and pass the Atlantic. In 1989 I flew TWA from Portugal to USA, but that day there were no direct flights from LIS ( that gives me the idea that in that year TWA didn't have a daily flight from LIS ) so I had to fly TAP from LIS to MAD and get their 747 flight to JFK, I crossed 2 times Portugal. Our flight pattern was over Azores, a southern flight and we would get by Cape Cod.
I was in STL in July 2001 and at that time TWA was already starting to be "swollowed" by AA, most of the fleet was still with TWA colours, mainly the last TWA livery but still at least 1 767-300 was with the red-livery. I saw the first TWA 757 with AA fuselage colours and TWA red titles on the tail.
When I left STL that morning to PHL I took a last photo of STL ramp with some TWA planes, I knew it would be the last time I had that sight!
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
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RE: Some TWA Info (Cities/ People)

Sat Jul 12, 2003 3:31 am

I thought TWA in fact used MSP as a focus city at one time... I seem to recall, for example, that they flew SFO-MSP nonstop, for example.

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RE: Some TWA Info (Cities/ People)

Sat Jul 12, 2003 3:44 am

I remember living under the 9R approach at Chicago O'Hare and seeing a lot of TWA heavy jets such as 747, L1011, and 767's. In the last couple of years before the takeover all you would see is a handful of MD-80's throughout the day. One of my most memorable flights was from STL-ORD on a 767-200. Talk about a fun short hop on a big jet Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Does anyone know where all these heavy jets flew to and from at ORD?
I really miss TWA, but they have a history and place in the aviation industry to this day that most airlines only wish they had.
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Some TWA Info (Cities/ People)

Sat Jul 12, 2003 4:03 am

TWA flew 5x a week from New York/JFK to Cairo to Riydah, Saudi Arabia up until 30 September 2001. American Airlines was actually planning on keeping the route, which was profitable, but then you know what happened.
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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 12:16 pm

RE: Some TWA Info (Cities/ People)

Sat Jul 12, 2003 6:02 am

TWA used the widebodies to fly from ORD to LHR and CDG. They may have also used them to JFK, STL, and LAX. Until around 1988 or so, TWA's route structure resembled Southwest's......a lot of point to point service from ORD, BOS, LAX, ABQ, CMH, LGA, DCA, CVG, DAY, SFO, PIT, MCI and LAS. Not that WN goes to all those places, but I mean the route structure looked like spaghetti noodles that sort of centered around a STL hub. After the Ozark purchase in 1986, TWA started to focus more on STL and less on point to point flying. Europe was the same way. CDG was actually a major hub with widebodies from STL, JFK, IAD, BOS, LAX, and SFO connecting to 727's to Athens, Cairo, Kuwait City, Rome, Munich, Frankfurt, and Tel Aviv, not to mention the LHR routes to JFK, LAX, ORD, SFO, BOS connecting to Scandinavia, Brussels and Amsterdam. LGW was also served from STL, BWI and PHL. TWA was America's premier carrier to the Middle East with nonstops from JFK to Tel Aviv continuing to Saudi Arabia and the Cairo-Kuwait City-Mumbai route. All of this lasted until the late 80's to early 90's. Prior to that (the 70's) TWA flew to Tripoli and Tunisia. In the late 1990's most of Europe was either dropped or scaled back. At the end the only thing left was CDG, CAI, and RIY from JFK and STL-LGW. Rumor had it they were about to begin JFK-Athens-Bahrain, but we never saw it. Yes they were quite an influence at one time.
Posts: 1918
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

RE: Some TWA Info (Cities/ People)

Sat Jul 12, 2003 6:42 am

Thanks guys, keep the info coming! I remember while in SFO, I saw a Hangar, or Cargo like facility of TWA's, is it still there? If so, who has it now? AA?
Posts: 2181
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 12:16 pm

RE: Some TWA Info (Cities/ People)

Sat Jul 12, 2003 8:18 am

Flyboy80 you have me looking through old timetables now. Here's a wierd city that was served in 1988......Pueblo, CO. It must have been one of those "left-over from the government regulation days towns" that TWA was late giving up. They flew to Pueblo nonstop all the way from Denver. I wonder if anyone goes to Pueblo today?
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RE: Some TWA Info (Cities/ People)

Sat Jul 12, 2003 8:34 am

In the mid-1970s TWA and Pan American (the only carriers allowed to serve Europe besides National's MIA-LHR route) reached an agreement on European flights.

Pan Am suspended all operations to Paris, which allowed TWA to build CDG into a European hub. Conversely, TWA pulled out of Germany completely, allowing Pan Am to build a similar connecting complex at FRA. At the same time, I think Pan Am left Spain and Portugal.

A few years later, after Deregulation, Pan Am moved back into France and TWA into Germany again. It's interesting, however, that if you look at TW and PA route maps from the 1970s you can see the "gaps" where they agreed not to compete with one another. Pretty unheard of today, eh?
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

RE: Some TWA Info (Cities/ People)

Sat Jul 12, 2003 8:51 am

From JFK, TWA's Trans Atlantic gateway, it flew to:

Kuwait City
Tel Aviv

It also flew to Berlin, Munich, Stuttgart, Moscow, Cairo, and Nice one stop through other European gatways. Flights to primary European destinations (London, Paris, Rome, Madrid, Frankfurt, Athens) and to Tel Aviv operated with 747-100/200 aircraft, Bombay and Kuwait City were flown with 747-SP aircraft, with the other cities alternating between L1011's and 767-200's.

At its busiest, in 1988, TWA operated up to 155 daily departures from JFK.


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