rupertvander82
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Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Fri Jul 11, 2003 5:22 pm

I'm wondering if EWR is considered part of New York or New Jersey. My cousin, who stays at New Jersey, says that EWR effectively is in New Jersey, not NY.

If his statement is true, then I see the rationale of airlines flying into both JFK and EWR. However, I've heard people telling me that EWR is part of New York, then my next question is, why do airlines fly into both JFK and EWR? E.g. SIA, LH, BA etc. Is there really such a big demand for international flights in two airports in New York?

Even if my cousin's statement is true, is there really a need for such huge international airlines to fly into New Jersey?
 
C-GRYK
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Fri Jul 11, 2003 5:27 pm

EWR is located in the state of New Jersey, yet is worthy of it's status of an airport serving New York City.

In response to your questions regarding demand.... if there wasn't any demand, then there would be no flights.

Jeremy
Think before you type!
 
tekelberry
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Fri Jul 11, 2003 5:34 pm

Newark, NJ is right across the river from NYC.

Regarding your other question, the same could go to the 2 London airports, the numerous Los Angeles airports, Chicago, Houston, etc. There is a lot of demand (more than 1 airport can handle) for those areas, especially New York.

[Edited 2003-07-11 10:37:13]
 
USAJPNflyer
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Fri Jul 11, 2003 5:36 pm

EWR is located in New Jersey. It is one of the three major airports serving the New York metropolitan area (the others being JFK and La Guardia).

Some people say that the travel time from EWR to downtown Manhattan is actually less than from JFK, due to logistics in transport. Also, EWR (being a Continental hub among other things) is said to offer more domestic USA connections than JFK.

JFK's strength lies in the breadth of world airlines serving it. It can be considered NY's link to the world.

As far as businesses are concerned, I read in Airways magazine that many corporations are headquarted or have major offices in the northern New Jersey area, where EWR is located. Thus it can be argued that there is sufficient demand for service from more than one New York-area airport.

A similar scenario is played out on a much smaller scale in the SF Bay Area. While SFO has almost all of the international air traffic in the region, there is a non-stop flight to Tokyo from SJC, served by AA.

Even though SFO and SJC are not even an hour's drive apart from each other, AA is able to serve the SJC-AA), Japan">NRT nonstop for a number of years now. The primary reason? To serve demand from Silicon Valley companies and persons located in the southern SF Bay Area. It seems to complement the five non-stops between SFO and AA), Japan">NRT quite well.
 
clipperno1
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Fri Jul 11, 2003 7:32 pm

EWR shares the ICAO city code of NYC, so not even technically but also officially it is a New York airport.
"I really don't know one plane from the other. To me they are just marginal costs with wings."� Alfred Kahn, 1977
 
cedarjet
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Fri Jul 11, 2003 9:12 pm

It's closer to Manhattan than JFK, by 2 miles. Indeed it was the main NY airport til Idlewild (renamed JFK on 31.12.63).

PS JFK was KIA (Kennedy International Airport) until Vietnam started to turn into a meat grinder.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
jetstar
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Fri Jul 11, 2003 10:25 pm

At one time Newark Airport was the only airport serving New York City until a former mayor of NYC complained that although his airline ticket read New York City as his destination, he landed in Newark Airport.

He then ordered an airport be built on a closed trash and landfill site on the North shore of the Borough of Queens abutting Flushing Bay and was opened in the late 1930’s

LaGuardia Airport then became New York City’s main airport and included
non-stop coast to coast flights by DC-6 & 7’s and Lockheed Connies.

JFK, nee Idlewild was opened in the mid to late 50’s to take over the long distance and international flights.

This mayor’s name, Firorello LaGuardia, hence LaGuardia Airport which was named after him after he died.
 
La Carlota
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Fri Jul 11, 2003 11:07 pm

Good point, ClipperNo1!
I was wondering if the same applies to BWI as far as considering it a Washington DC airport...
Any word on that?
Tango Tango Fox
 
deltairlines
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:04 am

I don't believe BWI falls under the Washington code of WAS.

As for EWR, it is for all purposes a New York airport. It is extremely easy to get to from Manhatten; between the frequent commuter trains from midtown, and the one train connection at Newark/Penn Station for those coming from the WTC area (once the PATH reopens in December). LGA can only handle flights as far as DEN and DFW, but EWR has pretty much every major destination in the United States non-stop, as well as international flights.

Jeff
 
clipperno1
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:06 am

Yes, BWI just like IAD & DCA carries the code WAS, despite the fact BWI is quite far outside of DC on Maryland territory and that UA once operated between IAD and BWI with BAe Jetstreams.
"I really don't know one plane from the other. To me they are just marginal costs with wings."� Alfred Kahn, 1977
 
CcrlR
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:07 am

If you don't know that the three airports are part of the Porth Authority(PAPD). If you go to their website you see all three including some other spots like TEB(Teterboro) and some helipads. That's why the Porth Authority Police take control of all three. If you ever go to one of the airports and get their airport guide, they have all three airport's flights there.
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
prosa
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:29 am

At one time Newark Airport was the only airport serving New York City until a former mayor of NYC complained that although his airline ticket read New York City as his destination, he landed in Newark Airport.
He then ordered an airport be built on a closed trash and landfill site on the North shore of the Borough of Queens abutting Flushing Bay and was opened in the late 1930’s
LaGuardia Airport then became New York City’s main airport


There also was an amusement park on the site, North Beach I believe it was called.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
ScottB
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:39 am

Actually, neither DCA nor IAD lie in the District of Columbia; they are both located in Virginia. Moreover, Dulles is only marginally closer in driving distance from central DC - 28 miles versus 31 miles to BWI. The fact that an airline operated flights between two of a city's airports is pretty irrelevant; CO currently operates IAH-EFD and operated IAH-HOU (with 737's on some flights) in the past.

Moreover, the location of an airport in a different state from the city it is said to serve is also irrelevant; Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport is located across the river in Kentucky, and CVG stands for CoVinGton, KY, not Cincinnati. But it's still the airport providing commercial air service to Greater Cincinnati.
 
jetstar
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:42 am

PROSA, I believe you are right, North Beach Airport sounds familiar, before it was renamed LaGuardia
 
prosa
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:44 am

Moreover, the location of an airport in a different state from the city it is said to serve is also irrelevant; Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport is located across the river in Kentucky, and CVG stands for CoVinGton, KY, not Cincinnati. But it's still the airport providing commercial air service to Greater Cincinnati.

Some New Yorkers, mainly the elites who live in the high-rent parts of Manhattan, have a rather provincial worldview in which anything west of the Hudson is wild uncharted territory. To them, EWR doesn't really count as a New York airport given its location.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:14 am

If I'm not mistaken, even thought it lies in New Jersey, EWR is run by the Port Authority of New York. I could be wrong, and someone can gladly correct me if that's the case.
 
mikephotos
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:55 am

If I'm not mistaken, even thought it lies in New Jersey, EWR is run by the Port Authority of New York. I could be wrong, and someone can gladly correct me if that's the case.

It's the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey/PANYNJ.

Michael
 
jrlander
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 2:05 am

EWR really is much more convenient depending on what part of Manhattan one might be. I just finished 2 years of graduate school in the Chelsea neighborhood, which is below 34th street on the West side. EWR was the most convenient airport, mostly because of the AirTrain going from Penn Station. Upper East Siders are very close to LGA, so that is the most convenient for them. It is still a strange political situation that LGA has no rail connection, though EWR has one and the one at JFK will soon open up. But that is sort of off topic.
 
prosa
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 2:14 am

It is still a strange political situation that LGA has no rail connection

In its early years it did:
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/TROLLEYS/Jackson%20Tracks/jactrax.html
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
jrlander
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 2:28 am

PROSA:

Thanks! That link was fascinating!
 
prosa
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 2:38 am

Forgotten-ny's a terrific site. It's also got pages on Floyd Bennett Field and the old Flushing Airport.
One of these days, maybe if I can get off work early some afternoon, I'd like to mosey on up to the LGA area and see if I can trace any more of the old trolley line. Hopefully there might be something within a block or two of the airport itself.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
fanofjets
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 3:23 am

Also worth noting is that Newark Airport (sorry, I cannot get myself to say that "Liberty" stuff) is actually located in the city of Elizabeth, though Newark is a much larger city. Just a few miles to the south lies Linden airport, which caters to general (and some business) aviation. It must be quite a job keeping the traffic of the two airfields apart.
The aeroplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
 
prosa
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 4:09 am

Also worth noting is that Newark Airport (sorry, I cannot get myself to say that "Liberty" stuff) is actually located in the city of Elizabeth, though Newark is a much larger city. Just a few miles to the south lies Linden airport, which caters to general (and some business) aviation. It must be quite a job keeping the traffic of the two airfields apart.

Actually, the northerly two of the three terminals is in Newark while the southernmost one is in Elizabeth. Or it might be one in Newark, two in Elizabeth, though I don't think that's it. In any event, there is a split. It is most significant with respect to taxi riders as cab rates in New Jersey vary depending upon the number of county lines crossed. Elizabeth's in Union County and Newark's in Essex County. As a result, the taxi fare for a trip into Manhattan (or most other destinations) from the Elizabeth terminal(s) is higher because there's a county line being crossed right in the airport.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Capital146
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 4:32 am

There is nothing wrong with the same international airline serving JFK and EWR. Both airports are known as serving the New York area, just as Heathrow and Gatwick serve London for transcontinental travellers. New York is a vastly populated city and justifies two international gateways.
Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
timz
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Couple Corrections

Sat Jul 12, 2003 6:44 am

Idlewild opened in 1948. It became JFK at the beginning of 1964; it was never officially designated KIA. Or unofficially, AFAIK.

I've never seen a DC-7 schedule into LGA, and my guess is there never was one. There was never a nonstop schedule from LGA to the West Coast-- tho TWA did show a nonstop-with-possible-fuel-stop 049 from LAX to LGA in 1947.
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 8:43 am

Newark International Airport (now known as Newark Liberty International) has become the New York/New Jersey area's busiest airport, surpassing JFK and LGA. The reason has a lot to do with Continental Airlines, whose #2 US hub is at EWR. Continental operates approximately 350 daily departures to cities around the world, including the mainland USA, Hawaii, Alaska (seasonal), and to Europe, Canada, Latin America, Caribbean, and Asia. The world's longest scheduled nonstop flight (EWR-HKG) will resume August 2nd.

Newark grew exponentially beginning in the post-1978 deregulation period thanks to PeoplExpress Airlines, which used Newark as its primary base for its low cost flights.

Terminal C opened in 1988 and is now home to Continental's operations.

The airport is in New Jersey, near Newark, and actually closer to Elizabeth. Its runways straddle the New Jersey Turnpike.

ContinentalEWR
 
timz
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RE: Runways

Sat Jul 12, 2003 8:51 am

EWR's runways don't straddle the Turnpike, of course.
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 8:52 am

Well no....they don't, in the sexual framework. They are parallel to it.
 
Carlos Borda
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 9:35 am

Some pics below showing how close EWR is to Manhattan NYC for those that don't already know... I can get from EWR into the Holland Tunnel by car in 15 minutes. With no traffic of course  Big grin ~Los


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Carlos Borda



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Carlos Borda

 
flyguy1
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 9:41 am

JFK was the busiest NY area airport in 2002, FYI.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
ual767ord
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 11:37 am

This a joke. Right? EWR is in Newark, NJ.
 
sllevin
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 11:45 am

EWR's nice for getting into Manhattan -- except for the fact that it costs almost twice as much for a taxi to run from EWR to midtown as it does from JFK -- about $65 instead of the $35.

Steve
 
jrlander
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 11:52 am

Steve:

You are totally right there. The taxi's are limited to their respective states. A taxi from NYC dropping you off at EWR can't pick up passengers. Likewise, a Newark taxi taking you to Manhattan can't pick up a passenger to take back. if you get a limo, though, it is very comparable. And a limo actually costs less than a taxi. I think it was about $35 the last time I did it.

The best deal, however, has got to be Airtrain.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:11 pm

Thanks Mikephoto's, at least I was half right.  Big grin
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:52 pm

it in new jersey. it's part of the port authority of new york system.

daaa
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
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STT757
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:05 pm

"Also worth noting is that Newark Airport (sorry, I cannot get myself to say that "Liberty" stuff) is actually located in the city of Elizabeth, though Newark is a much larger city "

Terminal A and the South cargo area are in the city of Elizabeth, the rest of the airport is indeed in the City of Newark.

The Port Authority actually controls 2 airports in NYC (JFK, LGA) and 2 airports in NJ (EWR and Teterboro), plus one heliport on Wall Street.

Manhattan as we all know is an island, the Hudson river is on the West shore of Manhattan and separates Manhattan from New Jersey, the East River is on the East shore of Manhattan and separates Manhattan from Brooklyn and Queens.

To get to Newark Airport from Manhattan you have to go over, under or across the Hudson river, to get to JFK or LGA you have to go over, under or across the East River.

EWR is actually almost (15- 16 miles) the same distance from Mid-town Manhattan as JFK, however the advantage with traveling to EWR is the NJ Turnpike which is a 12 lane toll way that does not back up. However backups do happen at the two tunnels and George Washington Bridge from Manhattan to New Jersey.

Traveling to JFK from Mid-town can take twice as long as traveling from Mid-town to EWR because of the poor quality of the highways in Queens.

When it comes to Lower Manhattan and the World Trade Center EWR is by far the closest and most conveinent airport to reach, from the World Trade Center to EWR is only about 9 miles.

Here's an aerial photo from above CO's Terminal C, in the distance you can see NY Harbor and the skyline of Lower Manhattan.



A couple reasons why EWR is popular..

First it actually draws the fewest number of O&D NYC passengers, however up untill last year it's been the busiest of the NY airports. How is EWR the busiest NYC airport without drawing more than 20% of NYC travelers, because..

Northern New Jersey is the most densely populated area in the Country, the population of Norhern/Central NJ is close to 8 million.

Second..

New Jersey is the wealthiest State in the Nation, based on household income. The average JFK and LGA traveler's yearly household income is $77,000 a year.

The average EWR traveler's yearly household income is over $89,000, (source Port Authority of NY and NJ).

Third..

New Jersey is the headquarters to many large companies like..

Johnson & Johnson, Merck, Pizer, Honeywell, AT&T, Bristol Myers Squib, Lucent Technologies, American Standard , Dow Jones/Wall Street Journal etc..

Also headquartered in New Jersey.. CNBC (FT.Lee) MSNBC (Secaucus).

Major Wall street firms have many of their offices in New Jersey, such as Merril Lynch, Lehman Brothers, AMEX, Morgan Stanley.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:19 pm

B747-437B, looking at that view from EWR at Manhatten, and seeing the Towers there, I can imagine what you were seeing out the window of that DL aircraft that clear tuesday morning on that particular September day.

Gives me a bit of a chill.
 
Dulles
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sun Jul 13, 2003 7:52 am

Coming back to the DC area airports... BWI does fall into the WAS category, and most reservation systems would include BWI in response to a WAS-containing query. Being between Baltimore and DC, it is approximately 3 times closer to Baltimore than to Washington, but, because everything is relatively close to each other here (the distance between the two beltways ia about 30 miles), all the 3 airports are regarded as "ours" by residents of DC and suburbs. Moreover, because of the deliberate policy of the Baltimore and BWI authorities to do whatever is possible to attract passengers, flights to the same destination from BWI are usually cheaper than from the other 2 airports (BWI is the main, if not the only, airport served by Southwest in this area, for example). Parking is also cheaper. In addition, BWI, unlike IAD, has a railroad connection (there are long-lasting debates about extension of the Washington metro system to IAD, but I do not expect it to happen any time soon).

And, for those of you who have not heard, control of the immediate approach traffic for all the 3 airports has been consolidated in one place recently. It is much farther from DC, let alone Baltimore, than any of the 3 airports (near Warrenton, VA, about 40 miles southwest of DC). reportedly, they believe that having it in one place will make it easier to deal with situations when traffic is redirected from one airport to another (I wonder if they physically walk from one room to another in such cases to fully take advantage of the proximity). Kidding aside, that was a wise decision, considering commute traffic and housing prices closer to DC.

dulles
 
prosa
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sun Jul 13, 2003 7:57 am

When it comes to Lower Manhattan and the World Trade Center EWR is by far the closest and most conveinent airport to reach

That statement gives us a pretty good idea of the date of the document from which you quoted  Sad
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
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STT757
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sun Jul 13, 2003 2:28 pm

Im not quoting any document, I prefer not to use the term "Ground Zero".

It's the World Trade Center, the PATH station that's being rebuilt there is called "World Trade Center". The Daniel Libenskind project will be called the "World Trade Center".

Why should I not refer to it as the World Trade Center, the WTC is still there. The twin towers might not be there but the World Trade Center, Mercantile Exchange, and World Financial Center are still there.

http://www.nycsubway.org
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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STT757
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RE: Is EWR An Airport In New York Or New Jersey?

Sun Jul 13, 2003 2:30 pm

"That statement gives us a pretty good idea of the date of the document from which you quoted"

Making assumptions like that is probably why you are not the most popular person on Subtalk.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757