ual767ord
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United MD-80?

Tue Jul 15, 2003 10:20 am

Why didn't UA buy any of the MD-80 series??
 
luv2fly
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RE: United MD-80?

Tue Jul 15, 2003 10:22 am

I don't think UA operated any of the DC9 family of planes.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
elwood64151
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RE: United MD-80?

Tue Jul 15, 2003 10:23 am

The MD-80 never sold particularly well until AA really picked it up in the mid-80s. By then, UA had already decided to purchase the 737 and later they chose to buy A320s.

Why? Well, UA had always had a strong relationship with Boeing, partly because they had once been owned by Boeing. Why they went with Airbus, I don't know.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
Cody
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RE: United MD-80?

Tue Jul 15, 2003 10:46 am

Well, United DID in fact own some MD-80's.........Notice the word "own" not "operate". This was back during the original Frontier Airlines fiasco.
 
gigneil
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RE: United MD-80?

Tue Jul 15, 2003 10:52 am

Blah blah blah, typical immature Airbus bashing. Add something logical or move on.

United was looking for a 727 replacement... and also a smaller plane with transcontinental range. The 737-400 and MD-88, which were all that was available at the time, are great planes, but didn't have the same economics as the A320, or the range.

The MD-90 wasn't yet available either... but its the same argument for DL and the MD-90. If the MD-90 had worked out a bit better, and Boeing didn't buy McD, they'd have a sizable fleet of them by now iso 737-800s.

N
 
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yyz717
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RE: United MD-80?

Tue Jul 15, 2003 11:39 am

The MD-80 never sold particularly well until AA really picked it up in the mid-80s. By then, UA had already decided to purchase the 737 and later they chose to buy A320s.

Not quite true. AA & TW committed to the MD-80 in 1982. UA did not add the 733 until 1987...until that time, their shorthaul fleet was based on the relatively old 721/722 & 732. There was plenty of oppy for UA to evaluate & order the MD-80.....it simply did not match their needs. Later, when UA was looking for a 722 replacement, the 734 was pitted against the 320. The 734 was less of a performer than the 320 despite the commonality with the 733. UA went Airbus and never looked back. I do agree with Gigneil's comment that had Boeing offered the 738 to UA, UA would likely have remained all-Boeing.


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
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yyz717
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RE: United MD-80?

Tue Jul 15, 2003 11:42 am

Another comment.....as Cody said, when UA bought Frontier & inherited their fleet, they briefly owned the 5 Frontier MD-80's which were quickly removed from service and never flew for UA (let alone appear in UA livery). The Frontier 732 fleet however was integrated into the UA fleet. Indeed, these were the only advanced 732's in the UA fleet.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: United MD-80?

Tue Jul 15, 2003 12:22 pm

WHAT???

I thought Continental/Texas Air bought out the 1980s Frontier? I remember seeing MD-80s and 737s for Continental still in Frontier colors
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: United MD-80?

Tue Jul 15, 2003 12:29 pm

Frontier planes in Continental-


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flyboy80
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RE: United MD-80?

Tue Jul 15, 2003 1:20 pm

UA was planning on recieving NEW boeing 737-400s, however after they took over a lot of PanAm's routes, A lot of European nations wouldn't grant UA a lot of privilges unless they choose to fly the European product, Airbus, therefore UA decided that they would go with the Airbus 320 (Simple resolve to this childish blackmale, but remember, these were PRE STAR ALLIANCE DAYS when INTER EUROPEAN travel was operated by United), and 737-500s prior to the 320s, then they decided to just start taking delivery of A319s as they have even more fleet commonality, and are slightly larger than the 735, plus the 735 order was basically complete anyway.
 
N777UA
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RE: United MD-80?

Tue Jul 15, 2003 1:33 pm

One of the things United really likes about the A320 series is its ability to take containerized cargo in the belly...makes for easier loading I guess.
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: United MD-80?

Tue Jul 15, 2003 1:57 pm

Cody, I think I hate you.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

I was looking for the slam dunk on the little know fact. Too late again.

But I can add the registrations.

N9801F to N9805F all bought from FL in February 1985 and all sold to Polaris on Nov 17, 1989. All leased to FL/CO during that time. And all 5 served with CO until retirement.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
David_itl
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RE: United MD-80?

Tue Jul 15, 2003 6:04 pm

A lot of European nations wouldn't grant UA a lot of privilges unless they choose to fly the European product,

Source? Evidence?

David
 
TriStar500
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RE: United MD-80?

Tue Jul 15, 2003 6:22 pm

Yes, Flyboy80,

What are your sources except for a.net hearsay? Please enlighten me, I am more than willing to change my understanding of this topic if you can come up with credible sources.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
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yyz717
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RE: United MD-80?

Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:04 pm

I recall the competition betw the 320 and 734 at UA. It was primarily based on their relative performance. The 734 did not meet UA needs for transcon service. I don't recall a concern about Euro landing rights.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Cody
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RE: United MD-80?

Tue Jul 15, 2003 11:16 pm

Texas Air did buy the original Frontier so to speak, however during the complex transaction United ended up with a good chunk of it. In fact, I once read they got more than Continental did.........hopefully someone else can provide the details.

IMissPiedmont........now is your chance to show me up. Are you up to the challenge??????  Smile
 
flyboy80
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RE: United MD-80?

Wed Jul 16, 2003 7:48 am

Well i got the info from a UA employee, I didn't buy it at first ethier, so I asked another one, he is a captain on the 744 there. Basically what I stated was one of the major reasons for the Airbuses coming to United, if you all remember, UA was going to just fly A320s within europe before announcing wether or not they were going to fly ethier airbus or boeing planes in the USA back in the day when they had 722s based out of LHR. From what I was told the main problem came from the french, they have slot controlled airports or something? Hey, Im aware of the "heresay" of A.net, a lot of accurate and in-accurate info for sure! Non the less folks, this was more of a Contributing reason to the Airbus aircraft decesion, NOT THE ONE REASON! Also I dont recall UA every being interested with Transcon with the A320 until late in the 90s, I thought they orrig... going to have 57s and 67s do that? Then they changed their minds... They seem nutorius for that!
 
flyboy80
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RE: United MD-80?

Wed Jul 16, 2003 7:52 am

Also I forgot to add, UA wasn't to impressed with the 320 because they thought it had to much belly space for North/South West coast routes!
 
elwood64151
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RE: United MD-80?

Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:54 am

I want to interject right now, that I was not Airbus bashing in my previous post. I simply stated that I didn't know why UA went with Airbus.

Previously, Gigneil wrote:

Blah blah blah, typical immature Airbus bashing. Add something logical or move on.

Here's what I wrote:

Why? Well, UA had always had a strong relationship with Boeing, partly because they had once been owned by Boeing. Why they went with Airbus, I don't know.

As for TW and AA buying MD-80s in 1982, AA at least was a limited order at that time. It wasn't until (I think) 1984 that they ordered a large number. I am not aware of the details of TWs purchases.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
timz
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RE: United Ex-Frontier Aircraft

Wed Jul 16, 2003 10:15 am

United got 25 732s from Frontier, right? And those were the only ex-Frontier aircraft they operated?
 
Cody
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RE: United MD-80?

Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:54 am

Timz,

I believe you are correct. The 737-200's that came from Frontier were the only ones that flew in actual UAL colors. The MD-80's that United got from Frontier NEVEr flew in UAL colors. They were always leased to someone else (Continental?), but they did have "U" tail numbers.
 
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yyz717
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RE: United MD-80?

Wed Jul 16, 2003 12:03 pm

United got 25 732s from Frontier, right? And those were the only ex-Frontier aircraft they operated?

It was 24 actually! All remained in service until retired en masse immediately post-911.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
luv2fly
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RE: United MD-80?

Wed Jul 16, 2003 12:36 pm

UA bought the LHR slots from PanAm and since PanAm operated 727's and 737's in Europe why would it make a difference what anyone flew....
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
flyboy80
Posts: 1812
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RE: United MD-80?

Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:48 pm

Luv2fly: Educate ur self on the subject on then you'll know
 
UAL Bagsmasher
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RE: N777UA

Thu Jul 17, 2003 1:45 am

UA's A319/320's are all bulk loaded. They do not have containers.
 
ord
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RE: United MD-80?

Thu Jul 17, 2003 2:42 am

United chose the A320 over the 737-400 for many reasons. But it had nothing to do with gaining rights because it was a French aircraft. The real reasons United chose the A320, based on industry articles I have, are:

1. United wanted the new plane to fly transcontinental routes, and the A320 was better suited for this.
2. The 737-400 was considered slow and underpowered.
3. The 737-400 was under strains to operate from Denver to the East Coast with a full load on a hot day.
4. Promise by Airbus to provide a new, improved program of product support.
5. The A320 had a higher capacity, 150 vs. 143.
6. United liked the wider fuselage providing one extra inch for every seat and the aisle.

Also, United never had any plans to operate the 737-400. It was an option for them with their earlier 737 order but they never came close to exercising it.

Boeing knew the 737 was at a disadvantage to the A320. In addition to the 737-400, they proposed to United an upgraded 737 with 20 more seats, a redesigned wing, glass cockpit and better range. But the earliest Boeing could provide service entry was 1997. With the A320, United could get a plane right away.
 
TriStar500
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RE: United MD-80?

Thu Jul 17, 2003 2:50 am

ORD,
Thank you for clearing up the hearsay. Your summary pretty much resembles what I have read about the UA A320 deal before.  Smile
It just bugs me when conspiracy theories are invented when in fact a product just didn't fit the need of a particular operator.

P.S.: I know that politics are involved in quite a few aircraft deals, but not in the case of UA's selection of the 320 over the 734.

Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!

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