redngold
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Egad, CLE Lost All Mainline US!

Sat Jul 19, 2003 5:59 am

I just noticed that Cleveland Hopkins has now lost all mainline USAirways service. We lost mainline PHL service just before 9/11 and as of yesterday I noticed that Mesa is now serving the CLT-CLE route.

Sheesh. Things must still really be bad in Arlington.


 Sad redngold

[Edited 2003-07-18 23:00:50]
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luv2fly
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RE: Egad.

Sat Jul 19, 2003 6:02 am

Prior to 9-11 we had a few MetroJet flights and after 9-11 they left, also the US club they had here in CLE and now all mainline flights.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
redngold
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RE: Egad, CLE Lost All Mainline US!

Sat Jul 19, 2003 6:06 am

I didn't think of MetroJet as mainline since the system was run independently via a hub at BWI.


redngold
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ouboy79
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RE: Egad, CLE Lost All Mainline US!

Sat Jul 19, 2003 6:51 am

Cleveland went to Mainline Express several months ago. This allows for U to fly mainline in there on a seasonal need without having to have mainline people working the flights.

Things aren't bad at the Crystal Palace...they are doing what should have been done years ago, right sizing the markets the carrier serves. Expect to see more cities go RJ as time progress. However, the glimer of hope will be the Embraer 170 and 190 aircraft coming on deck which will restore mainline service to quite a few cities.
 
ncflyer
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RE: Egad, CLE Lost All Mainline US!

Sat Jul 19, 2003 7:59 am

I'll bet AA is next, once STL is downsized, CLE will only have 1 mainline a day, to MIA, and given that MIA is now serving Eagle from PIT and CMH to MIA, can CLE be far behind? CLE is slowly turning in to a fortress hub for CO, CO has never dominated in CLE the way DL has in CVG or USAir in PIT, but that must be changing through the years, even as CO rightsizes post 9/11.

It is noteable that many smaller markets, such as CMH, RDU, get much better mainline service as spokes that CLE does.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Egad, CLE Lost All Mainline US!

Sat Jul 19, 2003 9:01 am

Now that you mention it I could see AA going to all regionals as well. Also I do consider MetroJet mainline as they flew 737's as compared to all the regionals US is giving to the CLE market. I remember years ago flying both AA and UA between DTW and ORD and doing it in a DC10! Those were the days.
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AIR757200
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RE: Egad, CLE Lost All Mainline US!

Sat Jul 19, 2003 12:12 pm


Well, you can't just assume that CLE's AA MIA flight will go Eagle just because other neighboring cities have MIA Eagle flights. Economics folks. Does this sole MIA flight have high yields? Heavy amounts of cargo? A lot of factors need to added into the equation. If the answer is no, then yes, that MIA flight may switch to Eagle.
 
N766UA
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RE: Egad, CLE Lost All Mainline US!

Sat Jul 19, 2003 12:24 pm

And Delta is downsizing. MD-80s are going to 737-200s on about half the routes. Even CLE-CVG was downgraded to FRJs for half the schedule.
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dan2002
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RE: Egad, CLE Lost All Mainline US!

Sat Jul 19, 2003 12:26 pm

Shit all I see here now is USX, UAX, COX, AE, NW Airlink Rj's i miss those good ol days where you could book on NW or UA CLE-ORD on a DC-10 and LIKE IT!!!.
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ncflyer
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RE: Egad, CLE Lost All Mainline US!

Sun Jul 20, 2003 6:16 am

air757200, yeah that's quite obvious that if CLE yields support an MD80, then an MD80 it will be. And neighboring cities have nothing to do with what aircraft serve CLE. But, the fact that Eagle is now serving CMH and PIT indicates that AAEagle jets now have the range to serve such a long route, that's something you couldn't say a year or two ago. And, how economic can it be to have a mainline jet in only once a day?
 
TLHFLA
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RE: Egad, CLE Lost All Mainline US!

Sun Jul 20, 2003 7:12 am

I am suprised to see that AA has no mainline service DFW-CLE. I would think there would be a possbility of mainline service returning with the flights to STL disappearing.
Bill in ATL
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Egad, CLE Lost All Mainline US!

Sun Jul 20, 2003 9:58 am

I am suprised to see that AA has no mainline service DFW-CLE. I would think there would be a possbility of mainline service returning with the flights to STL disappearing.

I would imagine like CO before it, AA realized the yields on the CLE-DFW market just don't work in the present enviornment with a mainline jet. Maybe in the future it might, but airlines are looking to cut losses, not increase them these days.  Smile

As for US going to all Express, and AA doing basically the same thing, it might bode well for CO/COEX in the short term, as competition has been reduced on some shared markets. I do not see a mainline 735 going to STL, at least not short-term, but perhaps when yields are better, you MIGHT see it, perhaps running a 735 CLE-STL-IAH. But again, even if/when things improve, that's highly problematical.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Egad, CLE Lost All Mainline US!

Mon Jul 21, 2003 5:10 am

Don't worry, MIA-CLE is not going to Eagle. In fact, the just introduced MIA-PIT is being upgraded to mainline service in November, and they are adding MIA-IND mainline service. Miami is very much a mainline market. In fact, the only reason we have MIA-CMH ERJs is because CMH is an ERJ maintence base and its good use of ERJs that would otherwise be sitting in Columbus all weekend. While there has been a lot of talk about expanding Eagle out of MIA, it seems to have been just that. There were rumours of a major Eagle expansion this November, but instead, as the winter schedule released today shows, its a major mainline expansion.
a.
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: Egad, CLE Lost All Mainline US!

Mon Jul 21, 2003 5:20 am

Ironically, CLE was a busy station for US Air in the early 1990's. They had flights to Boston, Baltimore, Washington/National, Pittsburgh (jet and express), Philadelphia, Newark, LaGuardia, Dayton, Indianapolis, Kansas City, and other places, although it wasn't a hub. MetroJet operated a flew flights into CLE for US Air as well in the late 1990's.

I believe US had CLE-YUL (Montreal/Dorval) service as well.

ContinentalEWR

 
ncflyer
Posts: 504
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

RE: Egad, CLE Lost All Mainline US!

Mon Jul 21, 2003 5:23 am

Well, it does like 3 Md80s are coming back in the fall to serve Chicago, leaving 5 Eaagles in the market, so Cleveland is making up some of the lost mainline flights to STL. But DFW remains solidly Eaagle. That one really surprises me, I realize that DFW-CLE may not be the greatest market, but DFW has some pretty unique west coast service that you can't get nonstop out of CLE.

Redngold, to your point, I think you're right in that CO won't rush to add mainline to STL, that simply hasn't been their strategy out of CLE. But I did notice that WN is cutting out one of their 3 n/s to St. Louis in the fall (down to 2), so this all has to be very good news for CO's yields!
 
redngold
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RE: Egad, CLE Lost All Mainline US!

Mon Jul 21, 2003 8:25 am

From what I've seen, AA does very well with its single MIA-CLE MD80. We have a significant (and growing) Hispanic population in the city and there are lots of families with relatives in MIA, or who use the flight to connect to Carribbean/Central America destinations.

Interesting to see that WN is cutting STL... I'd like to see at least one daily N/S to MCO or TPA, however. We need to break through this regional non-stop set-up.


redngold
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RE: Egad, CLE Lost All Mainline US!

Wed Jul 23, 2003 12:25 pm

Pretty soon all thats going to be left of USAirways IS gonna be express carriers.
 
flyerau
Posts: 56
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RE: Egad, CLE Lost All Mainline US!

Wed Jul 23, 2003 1:24 pm

For those of you looking for US in CLE we had a A330 diversion from PIT today around 3:30. I arrived from PIT at 2:10 and the ride was incredible to say the least. I've never experienced worse turbulence but then again everytime I've been on one of the Saab flights it's been a decent day - weatherwise. Anyone else get to see the 330?
 
thunder9
Posts: 175
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RE: Egad, CLE Lost All Mainline US!

Wed Jul 23, 2003 1:44 pm

>> Sheesh. Things must still really be bad in Arlington

Yes Redngold, it looks like the Texas Rangers are gonna finish last in the American League West once again! :-(


As to the other folks who replied to your post, I have a couple of thoughts. First, just because one airline reduces service/seat capacity from one city, doesn't mean that another carrier will automatically come in and replace those seats with their own seats. The market has gone "cheap" on most every route in the continental US. Because of that, the industry just can't afford to have one carrier "move in" to fill the void when another carrier reduces service.

Second, most people in small & medium size cities should really expect to see nothing but RJ's & maybe even some turbo-props in their home airports for years to come. Mainline service will start to become a dinosaur, due to the low fares paid to ride those planes, and the relatively high costs associated with operating them. It's unfortunate, but the days of full-service DC-10's flying into mid-sized cities is long gone...
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