MAH4546
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Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Mon Jul 21, 2003 3:17 pm

Maybe someone can clear this up, but a look at Alitalia's schedules show no more service to Boston Logan after 26 March 2004, and the flight is similarly unbookable after that date I am shocked by this. All the other trans-Atlantic services are still bookable past that date. If true, this would bring Alitalia's US network down to just Chicago, Miami, and New York City.
a.
 
nm19371
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Mon Jul 21, 2003 3:29 pm

Jeez, I hope not. I have fond memories of flying them BOS-FCO-ATH back in the '80's and I'll miss seeing their red white and green tail at Logan.
 
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DaV
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Mon Jul 21, 2003 6:14 pm

I hope not! Never heard of axing the route... no rumors, no official statement!

DaV
Two monologues do not make a dialogue
 
gkirk
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Mon Jul 21, 2003 6:33 pm

Have they published their summer timetable yet then? Maybe thats why you cant find it?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
flyyul
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:26 pm

Indeed!

The BOSMXP sked has been pulled off. Check it on galileo and amadeus, and its gone!

Ill bet DL takes BOSFCO or BOSMXP next summer.

Mark
 
deltairlines
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Mon Jul 21, 2003 11:53 pm

It would seem odd that this route would be gone, due to the large Italian population in Boston, and that you have BOS (a Delta mini-hub) and MXP (an AZ hub) at both ends, which would result in connecting traffic (BOS alone gets connecting traffic from YUL, YHZ, YFC, BGR, PWM, BTV, CVG, SLC, DFW, MCO, FLL, TPA, RSW, and PBI, amongst others), which should at least fill this flight regularly enough. I too, would not be surprised to see DL be taking over this route, remember they were going to start BOS-FCO this summer, but pulled it with Gulf War II.

Jeff
 
thomacf
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Tue Jul 22, 2003 2:16 am

Do they still fly to LAX and SFO?
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Tue Jul 22, 2003 2:24 am

Do they still fly to LAX and SFO?

No, they pulled out of SFO in October 2001 and LAX in March 2002. They serve EWR/JFK-MXP/FCO with 777s and ORD/MIA-MXP with 767s. MIA becomes a 777 in March. In November, the last month of AZ MD11 operations, AZ will fly the MD11 to MIA and BOS.
a.
 
Guest

RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Tue Jul 22, 2003 4:47 am

It seems like BOS has lost a lot of traffic the last few years. I recall when that airport handled something like 28 million passengers a year with over 500,000 aircraft movements. I heard the current figures are around 23 million passengers and something like 380,000 movements. I also read somewhere that they have experienced the biggest decline in traffic post 9/11 of any major US airport. What's with that?

[Edited 2003-07-21 21:53:40]
 
starrion
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:03 am

The first being that the airport is a royal pain to get to, with the roadways under construction and the terminals in a old-n-shabby or under construction condition, plus parking and services are stunningly expensive.

We also have new choices with expanded service out of both Manchester NH and Providence RI, both of which are simple to get to, cheaper to use, less crowded and in better condition.

Other than that....
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
ShovelAirlines
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:20 am

Ah, but have you seen the new International Terminal at BOS?? It's truly amazing and has a feel of a bigger, busier international airport. I can see more international airlines setting up shop at BOS. Perhaps SAS? JAL? BMI? Am I too optimistic? I bet Alitalia is here to stay.
Go hang a salami, I'm a lasagna hog!
 
UAL747
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:29 am

Maybe the reason that they lost so much traffic post 9/11 is that the two planes that hit the world trade center originated from BOS. Not to mention that their security came under great scrutiny as well.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
CPH-R
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:29 am

I doubt that SAS would move into BOS, seing that their ambitions only allow for one new international route every 5 years (or so) & since they already have a strong presence at EWR.
 
767ALLTHEWAY
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:37 am

On the fact that BOS, is a pain to get to, its not easy, but it certainly is not that hard. When my family travels out of BOS, we frequently use Logan Express, a system of coach buses, that have stops in the Metro-Boston area, take that, let Massport do the driving its not bad at all. I will say yes, Manchester and T.F. Green in RI, are nicer, but Massport is trying very hard to clean up the airport, it is a constant cluster of roadways and construction now but when finished will be extremly nice, the new International terminal, and I can bet that when the new Terminal A is completed that it will also be beautifull. Unfortunatly that airport is in a bad location, if it were landlocked like DFW, or ATL im sure it would be a lot easier to get to and more organized, but look what they have to work (land area, water, East Boston etc) with and you have to say that BOS has done nicely throughout its history.
7 6 7 A L L T H E W A Y
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear"
 
luv2fly
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:41 am

Also did they not lose the NW service to Europe? I remember when NWA had BOS to LGW, FRA and CDG(?) Although I am not 100% sure about CDG. When they got the route authority from DL for the DTW to LGW I believe that is when they moved all the flights to DTW.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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STT757
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:44 am

Alitalia flies from EWR to both Rome and Milan,

The EWR-FCO flight operates with 777 (although I've been seeing a MD-11 lately), the EWR-MXP flight operates with a 767-300.

From JFK Alitalia operates one daily 777 flight to Milan and one to Rome.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
starrion
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:58 am

Actually I use the Logan Express buses all the time. On return trips to Boston on Saturdays I frequently end up waiting 30-45 minutes for the bus to arrive. After a week of work and an often long flight behind me, the last thing I generally want to do is hang around Logan. Logan Express works, but it could be more convenient.

Ual747: 9-11 hit Boston traffic really hard. I lost my high school health teacher on AA011 and a close friend lost a neighbor who was the Captain. A lot of people have stopped flying for vacations.... Pre 9-11 my classes would be full of people who flew in from the NY/NJ area on the shuttle. This class I have six students, all of whom drove to Boston.
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Tue Jul 22, 2003 11:08 am

Alitalia does not fly 777's into Newark. Only the JFK-FCO and JFK-MXP routes are flown with 777's. The EWR to FCO and MXP routes are both on 767-300ER aircraft.

ContinentalEWR
 
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STT757
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Tue Jul 22, 2003 1:01 pm

"Alitalia does not fly 777's into Newark. Only the JFK-FCO and JFK-MXP routes are flown with 777's. The EWR to FCO and MXP routes are both on 767-300ER aircraft."

Please don't tell me what Im seeing, I've seen a Alitalia MD-11 at EWR almost everyday for the last 3-4 weeks. The latest schedules now show a 777, but Im still seeing MD-11s.

I drive the Turnpike almost everyday,I live in New Jersey.

The Alitalia Website shows a 777 on the EWR-FCO route, not a 767-300. But I've been seeing a MD-11 lately, check for yourself.

http://www.alitaliausa.com/

Or Check the Port Authority Website.

http://www.panynj.gov/aviation/ewroagframe2.htm

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
usairways85
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Tue Jul 22, 2003 1:04 pm

CPH-R: i know SAS has had a strong pressence at EWR for a while now with typically 3 flights a day, however come this fall the Oslo-EWR flight will be reduced from daily to 3x weekly.
 
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STT757
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Tue Jul 22, 2003 1:06 pm

Right now SAS has four daily flights from EWR, two to Copenhagen and one each to Stockholm and Oslo.

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
nm19371
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RE: Airports With Subway Or Metro Train Service

Tue Jul 22, 2003 3:50 pm

Lets face it, Logan, like everything state-run in Massachusetts, sucks ass! Just like the Big Dig, they have flushed a ton of taxpayer $$ down the toilet on "modernizing" it (maybe if you define modern as 1982). Whether or not this has anything to do with Alitalia pulling out, I have no idea (personally, I think this has more to do with BA, AF, and LH dominating the market on European flights out of BOS, perhaps Swiss will soon be history too.). Anyway, if I had my way, I would bulldoze Logan and build a truly modern and efficient airport somewhere else (maybe on an artificial island out in the bay like in Kobe). As far as post-9/11 security goes, the only thing different about Logan is that they have a few state troopers in SWAT gear walking around with MP-5s who are probably getting paid double overtime.
 
ShovelAirlines
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Tue Jul 22, 2003 11:03 pm

I won't get into the whole Big Dig thing but obviously you (Nm19371) have not seen the amazing changes that are happening to BOS. Massport, I believe, is really trying to make Logan into a world class airport. Sure, Logan did "suck ass" in 1982 but a lot has changed since then. Terminal A will be completed in a few years and that will be a DL powerhouse. The new international terminal is nearly complete with room for more international carriers and widebodies. Bulldoze BOS??? No way!
Go hang a salami, I'm a lasagna hog!
 
deltairlines
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Wed Jul 23, 2003 12:26 am

I too have my problems with BOS (and most things Massachusetts, but that's another story). Yes, the new international terminal is very nice. Yes, the new Delta hub will be great. Yes, the new US Airways terminal is good. However, there is more to an airport than facilities. First off, it still is a pain to get in there. Driving in from the North Shore, it seems like the roads change every month. It's always a good idea to cut across three lanes of traffic so you can get to your desired terminal location... Also, there are still delays there. Ever fly during the winter with the nice Northwesterly gusts (on top of typical New England weather)? I hope you enjoy your ground delay of 30 minutes to an hour.

Boston does need a new airport. While you can't beat the fact that its 3 miles from downtown, it is a pain to get to, and the runway set-up isn't the best. Remember pre-9/11? It will be back like that in a decade, and we will have a long line of delays. What BOS needs is more runways (if only they could expand the commuter 15/33 (not the long one) across the bay) to help accomadate the traffic. In the meantime, I'll go to BOS more than MHT (my other option), but as DL/NW/CO grow at MHT, I will be more keen to fly into there than BOS, as traffic time is about the same, but MHT is much more customer-friendly.

Jeff
 
flyyul
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Wed Jul 23, 2003 12:44 am

I dont think KBOS is all that bad.

I have flown out of there many times, the only real complaint I had was the ground access to the airport. I am told this will significantly improve with the big dig.

I have taken off out of there perhaps 3-4 times, during the different peaks. Never had anything more than 1-2 plane line-up.

Mark
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Wed Jul 23, 2003 12:50 am

Is the Ted Williams Tunnel now open daily for regular passengers going to/from Logan? When I was up there, it was just open on the weekends for normal passengers.

I thought I read somewhere that a new connecting roadway from the Mass Pike to Logan has been finished. Any validity to this?

I went to college in PVD...lived right next door to T.F Green airport in fact...but on numerous occassions, I found myself taking Bonanza up to Logan as the fares to MSY were usually about $100 cheaper on a consistent basis. Also, I took the Braintree Logan Express several times....that was pretty painless.

I found the roads to be confusing as hell around Logan. My good friend Jeff (who lived in BOS for the first 17 years of his life) picked me up once and the signage was so terrible that we ended up taking the Revere exit. The nice half-hour drive in the wrong direction pretty much to a less-than-desirable area. But, we took advantage of that and hit Kelly's Roast Beef....a classic!

Hopefully, access to BOS will be improved once the Big Dig is all wrapped up. You gotta love taking a 757 and shooting up over downtown BOS...talk abouit fun!


Steve in New Orleans
 
nm19371
Posts: 68
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Wed Jul 23, 2003 2:42 am

Perhaps I was a bit too harsh in my criticism of BOS. I'm originally from the Boston area but have lived in Baltimore for the past few years. When I go up there, I usually fly WN to MHT, however, last month I flew AirTran directly into BOS. I had not flown into or out of Logan for a few years and was pretty shocked at how disorganized everything was. For example, after we landed, we had to wait about 30 minutes to taxi to the gate, then it took me a while to find the shuttle stop to get to the subway (there were signs directing me to it, but they seemed to lead me in a big circle). When I was going back, the traffic to the airport through the Callahan tunnel was horrific, and this was on a Saturday afternoon. Maybe once the new terminals and roadway are in place and the Big Dig is finally completed (in 2053), it will all be good. Until then, I'll probably stick with MHT, eventhough Logan is much closer to where my family lives. I'd love to see Massport open up Hanscom to commercial traffic, this would relieve alot of the traffic and delays at Logan and probably attract alot of cheap airlines but I doubt that the greenies in Lexington and Lincoln will ever allow it

Cheers,

Nick

 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1959
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:00 am

What Europe services are there from BOS currently?

SailorOrion
 
Turtle
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:44 am

MSYtristar,
Ted Williams tunnel is now open for everybody 24/7. The Mass Pike (I-90) now extends all the way to Logan airport. Because of this, Logan is getting much easier to get to/from from the western suburbs and from the south shore. Callahan and Sumner tunnel traffic has also been reduced as a result.
 
styles
Posts: 89
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:55 am

I doubt Alitalia will pull out of BOS as they just spent a lot of money on their new ops and adm office in the renovated Terminal E.

SAS will not fly to BOS anytime soon as FI has a code share with them to ARN/CPH/OSL currently

At the moment, these are the current European departures that I am aware of:

EI 332 to DUB daily
EI 330 to SNN daily
LH 332 to FRA daily
LH 343 to FRA daily
LH 343 to MUC 6 days
LX 332/M11 to ZRH daily
AZ 767 to MXP daily
FI 757 to KEF daily
VR 757 to SID once a week
S4 A310 to PDL/LIS 5 days a week
BA 772 to LHR daily
BA 744 to LHR daily
BA 744 to LHR daily
VS 744 to LHR daily
NW D10 to AMS daily
AF 343 to CDG daily
AF 343 to CDG daily
AA 777 to LHR daily
AA 777 to LHR daily
AA 763 to CDG daily
 
flpuck6
Posts: 2047
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 1999 12:32 am

RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:56 am

Ref: AZ leaving BOS, maybe they just aren't as fast to update their res. systems? I would be very shocked at an official confirmation that AZ will leave BOS.

SailorOrion: the following airlines have European routes:

AZ to MXP
EI to DUB/SNN
AF to CDG
NWA to AMS
BA to LHR
VS to LHR
AA to LHR and CDG
LH to FRA and MUC
Sata Int'l to the Azores
LX to ZRH
FI to REK

am I forgetting anyone?

As for the drive into BOS, I find it's still a pain the in the butt, believe me, I drive into BOS everyday for work, from PROVIDENCE!!!
Bonjour Chef!
 
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STT757
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:04 am

Silver Line to Logan..

http://www.allaboutsilverline.com/
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:14 am

Alitalia will still fly daily MXP-BOS with 763's after March 26th 2004. Their BOS scheds have not updated past March '04. This has been confirmed via Alitalia.

-Gus
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:44 am

Flpuck6:

Is there a page which simply lists all the flights? I would be interested in the frequency (and equipment). Thanks anyway  Big thumbs up

SailorOrion
 
deltairlines
Posts: 6875
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Wed Jul 23, 2003 5:52 am

Here's my attempt at a list:

AZ - daily to MXP; 763
BA - 3x daily to LHR; 744 (2), 777
FI - daily to KEF; 757
AF - twice daily to CDG; 343 (11 flights/week), 777 (3 flights/week)
EI - daily to DUB; 333; daily to SNN; 332
VS - daily to LHR; 744
AA - 2x daily to LHR; 777; daily to CDG; 763
LH - 2x daily to FRA; 332 (1), 343 (1); daily (ex Th) to MUC (343)
NW - daily to AMS; D13
LX - daily to ZRH; 332

To my knowledge, Sata and TACV do not serve BOS. I know Sata has a weekly A310 out of PVD though...I know Sata used to serve BOS, but I heard that their relationship with Massport wasn't the greatest.

Jeff
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Wed Jul 23, 2003 6:07 am

From Boston, TACV has a 757 to SID on Mondays, SATA has 310s to LIS on Sunday and Wednesday and to PDL (Azores) on Friday.
a.
 
flpuck6
Posts: 2047
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 1999 12:32 am

RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Wed Jul 23, 2003 6:29 am

DeltAirlines: SATA does indeed still serve BOS with an A310 ... Swiss mechanics (who also assist Air France) assist SATA. On the other hand, I have never seen TACV there...

Air Luxor does have 330 service to PVD once a week. Wish we still had TAP Air Portugal -310's

SailorOrion: DeltAirlines laid out all the frequencies with equipment ... no webpage that lays it out that clearly.
Bonjour Chef!
 
haveric
Posts: 1219
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RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Wed Jul 23, 2003 8:53 am

Does BOS have more weekly European departures than PHL?
 
usairways85
Posts: 3537
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Wed Jul 23, 2003 9:35 am

well let's see here's PHL:

US-2x daily LGW (330, 762)
US-2x daily CDG (330, 762)
US-daily MAN (330)
US-daily AMS(762)
US-daily SNN(762)
US-daily DUB(762)
US-daily FRA(330)
US-daily MUC(330)
US-daily FCO(330)
US-daily MAD(330)
BA-2x daily(744, 772)
LH-daily (763/332)
AF-daily (332)

**some flights might be seasonal
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: Alitalia Pulling Out Of BOS?

Wed Jul 23, 2003 2:44 pm

Thanks for that list.

MUC-PHL on US is still a 762 by the way.

SailorOrion

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