NoBoeingNoGoin
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Posts: 106
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More UAL 747's Coming Back

Wed Jul 30, 2003 2:54 pm

I was on a United Airlines 747-400 today (IAD-LAX), and the flight attendants told me that United is bringing back many of its 747's and parking some of the 777's. This is because the 747's are now cheaper to operate because United has been able to alter the leases and the 777 leasing company isn't lowering the prices for them like the company for the 747's. Also, The pilots make the same amount of money on the 747 as they would on the 777. This and the paycut from the flight attendants (and booking only the minimum amount of required crew) will allow United to bring back virtually all of their 747-400's back into service. Great news!
Alex
 
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flybynight
Posts: 1149
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RE: More UAL 747's Coming Back

Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:03 pm

I thought United owned most of their 777's (as opposed to leasing them). Maybe I'm wrong. I hope so, I love seeing domestic airlines flying 747's. I wish AA didn't ditch their 747's back in the 80's (or was that in the 90's?).


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Heia Norge!
 
pilottim747
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RE: More UAL 747's Coming Back

Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:32 pm

While I'm glad to see UA bringing back the B744s I'm torn because I love their B777s so much as well. The B777s are just so new it's hard to see them parked (I realise the B744s are pretty new as well).


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pilottim747
Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
 
andrewuber
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RE: More UAL 747's Coming Back

Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:44 pm

I flew SFO-ORD on a brand-new United 747-400 about two years ago. I was using buddy passes (Thanks Robert!!!), and got bumped to Business Class. This was one of the best flights I've been on in the United States. I've flown on UAL's 777's from ORD-LHR, and the flight was good as well, but I loved watching that wing bouncing on the 7-4. Truly remarkable on takeoff roll - I swear the winglet must have come up five or six feet.

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I'll be glad to see the 747's back in service. I'm one of those who will choose my flights based on aircraft type, and I'll be looking for them!
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
capt078
Posts: 415
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:52 am

RE: More UAL 747's Coming Back

Wed Jul 30, 2003 6:01 pm

flew ual 747-400 last summer from san francisco to shanghai. it was only fair (no room, little service). obviously, when there is little competition (only ual and nwa fly to mainland china), there is little service.

anyway, i much prefer the 777 to the 747. nicer cabins, quieter engines, and ual has ptv's at each seat on its 777, unlike the 747.

i wouldn't believe what a f/a told me about the fleet. from my experiences, what they comment on about the fleet and route planning, etc., usually comes from rumors.

i agree, i thought ual owned its 777s. either way, their more efficient.

i do believe that ual is bringing back 747-400s, but not at the expense of the 777s. i think they are bringing them back because the asian markets are picking up again, and that is what ual uses most of their 747s for.
 
AA777
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UA's 744's...

Wed Jul 30, 2003 6:16 pm

Why has UA decided to use their 744s and park some of their 777s? Since the airline is in a bad financial state...wouldnt it be smarter to use the more efficient 777's whenever possible? And correct me if im wrong, but passenger volumes are still down and havent risen enough to sustain the usage of such large aircraft? (Then again, airlines like BA are still using them alot...so I am confused....?) I am just thinking about it and it doesnt seem logical to me....lol, but then again there must be another answer to my question? Thanks to anyone who can tell me .....
-AA777

Pardon if this message didnt show up under the correct post that I was replying to.....
 
na
Posts: 9207
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RE: More UAL 747's Coming Back

Wed Jul 30, 2003 6:22 pm

I agree with Capt078 about that I wouldn´t trust a F/A regarding fleetplans. There are too many rumours going around and details will never reach a F/A firsthand unless she´s befriending an airline manager.

It would be great if true, even at the expense of 777s! I guess that UA would - and should - really do that to bring down the leasing rates on the Triple Sevens as well. And yes, UA doesn´t own all 777s like they don´t own all 744s. Most UA 744s that were parked are around 10 years old, a bit older than the oldest 777s.
 
UA744Flagship
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RE: More UAL 747's Coming Back

Wed Jul 30, 2003 7:39 pm

United parking 777s is true.

Until the lease rates get haggled down, some will stay parked, or even have the potential to be reposessed by lessors.

Unlike the 747-400, there is demand for used 777s. The reason why lessors have been reluctant to kick down the rates for United's 777s is that they believe they might be able to place their 777(s) at other carriers for the same, or better rate.

In terms of crew costs and operating cost per passenger, the United 747-400 is a very efficient aircraft.

Think about it: a United 747-400 captain/FO now makes exactly the same as his 777 counterpart. On top of the ~20% paycut, United 747-400 pilots are now some of the most efficient (read: low paid) jumbo pilots in the biz.

Historically, United has run large-gauge, widebody, 3-class aircraft on its hub-to-hub routes. The 747-400 is replacing some 777 service on these routes because it is costs less per passenger, if the plane is relatively full.

And as most people who have been on a flight between any two of SFO/LAX/DEN/ORD/IAD can attest -- these hub-to-hub flights are jam packed.
no wire hangers!
 
na
Posts: 9207
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: More UAL 747's Coming Back

Wed Jul 30, 2003 11:53 pm

How many 777s are parked right now (at Victorville?) along the 744s?

 
syncmaster
Posts: 1926
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RE: More UAL 747's Coming Back

Thu Jul 31, 2003 12:51 am

I find it hard to believe that they would park any of the 777's even if it was cheaper to operate the 747's. They are used on tons of domestic and intl routes.
 
JC5280
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: More UAL 747's Coming Back

Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:25 am

I second that about the flight attendants. MOST of them know little to nothing about the fleet and aircraft operations other than what comes from the usual "galley gossip".

In fact, I was in the flight deck once talking to the captain before pushback, and the flight attendant who overheard us, was suprised that a tractor pushed the plane back. She thought the captain backed the plane out of the gate! And she was NOT new...she had several years with UA.
 
N777UA
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RE: More UAL 747's Coming Back

Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:27 am

If United parks or sells any of the 777s, it probably will be the -222 models (the original pack, before the -222ERs started coming). The baselines have been weight restricted on Atlantic routes in the past...a non-issue with the ERs.
 
UALDUDE
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2000 12:15 pm

RE: More UAL 747's Coming Back

Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:40 am

UA744Flagship is 100% correct and also the flight attendants were correct. We are parking some 777's and bringing 744's back. They were able to negotiate the lease rates down to 40% of what they were before. This is on the ones that WERE leased. The leasers of the 777's were not as willing to bring down the rates. The market on 744's is very soft right now. We also do not own all of our 777's, out of 60, about half are leased. The pilot pay cut and renogotiate was a big factor in this also. The 744/777 now have the same pay rates, at the 777 rate. This combined with the much lower lease rates make it too good not to operate them.
 
4holer
Posts: 2733
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 1:47 am

RE: More UAL 747's Coming Back

Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:41 am

Hmmm. Looks like there are a couple of UAL 777s inbound to Goodyear, AZ this morning... (Per PHX Sky Harbor spotter's group, Terry Nash/Cactus Wings)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/phoenixskyharborintlairport/message/2665
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
Thai A330
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2000 2:55 am

RE: More UAL 747's Coming Back

Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:42 am

Is Thai still getting some UA 744 ?
 
cdgdtw
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun May 04, 2003 6:34 am

RE: More UAL 747's Coming Back

Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:54 am

"I wouldn´t trust a F/A regarding fleetplans"
 Nuts
right. we just pour the soda and supply the gossip. pilots tell tall tales. agents do as well.
 
The777Man
Posts: 5936
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 4:54 am

RE: More UAL 747's Coming Back

Thu Jul 31, 2003 3:22 pm

Skynet (UA Intranet) show two 777-222 ERs parked currently, N207UA and N208UA.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
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HA_DC9
Posts: 563
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RE: More UAL 747's Coming Back

Thu Jul 31, 2003 3:25 pm

Who are the lessors for the 777's? ILFC?, Boeing Capital?
 
na
Posts: 9207
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: More UAL 747's Coming Back

Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:15 pm

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