DodgeCharger
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Rwy 13R-31L At DAL

Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:08 am

OK after looking at an old aerial picture of DAL I was just wondering when rwy 13R-31L at DAL was built in the mid 60s (i think) what did it displace? My guess is either some industrial warehouses common to the area or homes just like the ones currently next to it. Any of you Love Field people out there know?

Thanks for any help at all.
 
jsnww81
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RE: Rwy 13R-31L At DAL

Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:45 am

Work on 13R-31L started in 1962 with the demolition of the structures that occupied the runway site. A number of former WWII army barracks (DAL was used as a military field during the war) were located on the southern half of the new runway site, along with some homes. A few hangars and warehouses occupied the northern portion, closer to Bachman Lake.

Lead-in lights were installed on the 31L end, literally snaking between the warehouses beyond Mockingbird Lane (those lights are still there today.) Sequenced flashers were also placed on the 13R approach, although the system was not as elaborate as the one installed on 13L.

The runway opened in April of 1965. It had been on the drawing boards since the late 1940s, and was finally constructed in large part to compete with Fort Worth's Greater Southwest International Airport. By doubling Love Field's airside capacity, Dallas essentially put the final nail in GSW's coffin - although GSW extended its main runway across Highway 183 in 1964 in an attempt to attract more jet traffic.

Within weeks of the runway's opening residents at the north and south end of the strip had filed lawsuits against the city of Dallas. The situation was especially bad at the northern end, where effluent from jet engines killed the trees in peoples' yards and interfered with television reception. A few people reported that the shingles had been shaken off their roofs.

Ironically enough, the new runway was supposed to REDUCE the noise over homes near the airport by routing aircraft away from the neighborhoods east of Love Field. Instead, the western neighborhoods now got an equal amount of noise.

Today, of course, the situation isn't as bad. Some of the homes immediately north of the runway (along Northwest Highway) were demolished to create a clear zone, and Southwest's 737s are much quieter than Braniff and American's 707s ever were.

I wish I could have seen those days...
 
DodgeCharger
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RE: Rwy 13R-31L At DAL

Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:58 am

Jnsww81,
Thanks for the info! I'm a Love Field nut. Just like you, I wish I could have been there when the Braniff and American 707s were in their original turbojet engines and the word hushkit was non existent.
 
Okie
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RE: Rwy 13R-31L At DAL

Thu Jul 31, 2003 12:52 pm

Jnsww81
you were right about the noise. I had to overnight at one of the motels there on Mockingbird in about 1967 just east of 13R due to missed connection. There was no need for an alarm clock or courtesy call once the morning flights started the whole building shook. DAL was really rockin in those days with BN sort of leading the way in changing the decor of the drab terminals and aircraft. Some time in early to mid 70's there was a restaurant on the east side of the airport close to 13L amongst the hangers called XXX Bomber Squadron that you could sit out on the patio and eat and watch planes it had a decor of a French Villa. G/A aircraft could taxi up and passengers could walk right in for lunch and dinner. I might add that BN occasionally did power backs at DAL and I was quite impressed since at that time that was the only place that I had ever seen that.
 
jsnww81
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RE: Rwy 13R-31L At DAL

Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:43 pm

Okie:

I'd love to pick your brain for any and all memories you have of DAL. I've spent the past few years literally devouring any information I can find on Love Field. I'm especially fascinated with the 1968-1974 period, right before things moved over to DFW.

When I visit nowadays, it's hard to picture the place busy, but from looking at old flight schedules, it looks as though the two runways were bouncing from dawn til dusk.
 
sccutler
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RE: Rwy 13R-31L At DAL

Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:51 pm

Check out the attached pics- one is 31L/13R Under Construction (from the south);

Another shows a couple of AA DCs (a 6 and a 7) at the old Lemmon Ave. Terminal- really cool pic!

Last one is DAL's new terminal when it was new - 1958, I believe.





...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
Okie
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RE: Rwy 13R-31L At DAL

Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:55 pm

Well you know when I read the posts about DAL it jogs a few of those old scotch and vodka molecules from between the neurons. The whole complex was really quite modern in its day and BN spent a lot of money. I can't remember the exact nomenclature that they had for the monorail but I was amazed how much money they spent knowing they were going to move to the DFW terminal in a very short period of time. I rode it out and back a couple of times while waiting for connecting flights but you had to beg if you were not originating or ending your flight there. It seems at the time the only other terminals that were getting much decorating was the TWA terminal at now JFK
 
Okie
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RE: Rwy 13R-31L At DAL

Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

yep that her. Thanks for the Picks.
 
jsnww81
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RE: Rwy 13R-31L At DAL

Thu Jul 31, 2003 2:01 pm

Okie: I've seen pictures of the interior of the BN terminal and you're right, it looked pretty elaborate inside. I'm sure the American and Delta concourses paled in comparison, although apparently there was an Alexander Calder mobile in the AA terminal.

The Braniff monorail was called the Jetrail. It's long gone now, almost no trace of it left.

I really envy those folks who got to see DAL in its heyday. Do you by chance have any photos of the complex?

By the way, great shots sccutler.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Rwy 13R-31L At DAL

Thu Jul 31, 2003 2:03 pm

>>>Some time in early to mid 70's there was a restaurant on the east side of the airport close to 13L amongst the hangers called XXX Bomber Squadron that you could sit out on the patio and eat and watch planes it had a decor of a French Villa. G/A aircraft could taxi up and passengers could walk right in for lunch and dinner.

That'd have been the 94th Aero Squadron. They have them (or used to) at other airports, MIA and STL come to mind. Neat places... The one at DAL was knocked down years ago and there's an FBO on the site now, Signature, I think...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
sccutler
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RE: Rwy 13R-31L At DAL

Thu Jul 31, 2003 2:09 pm

Those pics are in the collection of the Dallas Public Library; notwithstanding the warning contained therein, the library has no copyright in those pics, though I'd never try to use them for any commercial purpose.

There are a ton more, including some nice pics of the old Lemmon Ave. terminal... Rock Hudson getting off of a Braniff plane, etc.

The Braniff "Terminal" (really, wing) was a thing of genuine beauty. I still remember the radio and TV ads:

"Have you seen the new Braniff Terminal at Dallas Love Field? Hoooooweee!"
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
Okie
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RE: Rwy 13R-31L At DAL

Thu Jul 31, 2003 2:20 pm

I don't have any picks. But this is good reason for all you photog buffs to go out and get picks of your travels. When they built DFW it was pretty much the state of the art however its looking a little tattered and torn and was much past due for the current renovation. They may be building something entirely different in years to come. In the early to mid 60's turbo jet aircraft were really just starting to come on line there were still a lot of the old recips out there on a lot of the routes. 30 years from now maybe a 777 will be about as ancient as a DC-3
 
DodgeCharger
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RE: Rwy 13R-31L At DAL

Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:53 pm

Great pics Sccutler!

So did the Lemmon Ave. terminal sit where Associated Air Center is now?
 
lovefieldflyer
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RE: Rwy 13R-31L At DAL

Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:26 am

In the early 70s, Cowboys quarterback Craig Morton owned a nightclub called the Wellington that was just across Bachman Lake from the end of 13R. It was a three level building and the top level was an open balcony. Planes coming in would fly so close by that you could feel the air turbulence coming off the wings. That was quite an experience.
 
JayDavis
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RE: Rwy 13R-31L At DAL

Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:57 am

There also used to be a very fancy restaurant right at the Southeast corner of Mockingbird and Denton Drive. It was called Jay's Marine and Grill. My parents used to take me there for dinner when we were in Dallas as we made the trip about 4 times a year, to go to the Trade Mart and Apparel Marts. I remember how the restaurant used to shake after a 707 or DC-8 would take off and you could see the silverware move, somewhat. They also had huge lobster tanks that were right out front and you'd have to walk past them to get into the restaurant. As a kid, I was scared. I thought those lobsters were going to get me. They also served "hot" onion popover rolls.....
MMMMMMMMMM !!

After dinner, we could go over to Love Field and go out on the Observation Deck to watch the planes !! Can you imagine if a US airport now had an observation deck? Think of the money that an airport in the US could make by charging an admission !! Man oh man, I wish an airport in the US would do that. I'd give them my money!


Jay
 
jsnww81
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RE: Rwy 13R-31L At DAL

Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:59 am

LoveFieldFlyer:

That's another thing I have difficulty picturing... from what I've heard, the Love Field neighborhood was one of Dallas' most vibrant and trendy during the 1960s and early 1970s. Young flight attendants and airport workers filled the then-new apartment complexes surrounding the airfield, while pilots lived with their families in the wealthy subdivisions nearby.

Of course, once DFW opened, all the crews moved out to the suburbs to be near the new airport, and the Love Field area began the downward slide that continues today. The once-trendy apartment complexes are now falling apart and jammed to the gills with illegal immigrants, and all along Lemmon Avenue are empty storefronts and vacant lots. Even some of the pilots' neighborhoods have deteriorated.

I would love to have seen that nightclub. Was it in the Bachman Shopping Center? There's a three-level part of the shopping area there.
 
lovefieldflyer
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RE: Rwy 13R-31L At DAL

Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:10 am

Jsnww81:

It was on Bachman Drive just off of Northwest Highway. I don't believe there was a shopping center nearby but I could be mistaken. The building is still there but I don't know if it's occupied.
 
DodgeCharger
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RE: Rwy 13R-31L At DAL

Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:34 am

Ok so to add to this topic a little, when did they stop using and pave over the other diagonal runway that used to be there?
 
Okie
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RE: Rwy 13R-31L At DAL

Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:26 am

Let me add another bit to this topic.
When the wind was out of the north and your approach from the north you would come down the west side of 31L do a 180 and looked like you could almost reach out the window and touch the downtown buildings. I have not been to DAL when the wind was from the north since 9-11 but I bet they have modified that approach.
 
jsnww81
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RE: Rwy 13R-31L At DAL

Fri Aug 01, 2003 6:20 am

The southern approach to the 31 runways (and particularly 31L) still passes very close to the downtown buildings, although you're a good thousand feet above them as you go by. It's still very cool. I'm fairly sure that the downwind and base legs for arrivals still loop around downtown (at least for flights arriving from OKC, TUL and LIT.)

As far as I'm concerned, the DAL approach is one of the best around - from either the north or south. From the south, it looks like the wheels are going to scrape the warehouses along Mockingbird, and from the north, you come right in over Northwest Highway and Bachman Lake.

The east-west runway (numbered 7-25) was closed in 1954. The 25 end was almost immediately paved over, to make room for an expansion of the Lemmon Avenue passenger terminal for American Airlines. The rest of the runway was downgraded to a taxiway.

The center portion of the runway was paved over in 1957 when the apron for the new (and present-day) terminal on Cedar Springs was laid down. The west end of the strip (the 7 end) was removed in 1965 when 13R-31L was constructed.
 
AA737-823
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JSNWW81

Fri Aug 01, 2003 8:57 am

Hey Jsnww81:

My parents lived in those swanky apartments. Unfortunately, they were NOT involved in the airlines industry. BUT- nearly all of their neighbors were pilots or flight attendants. And then, things changed. It was no longer fashionable to live there after the airport was all but abandoned.

A few years ago, my dad's employees (many of them illegals) lived in an apartment complex just down the street from the one my mom and dad lived in.

My, how times change.

BUT- there are still nice areas around DAL- you just have to go a bit further!

R
 
jsnww81
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RE: Rwy 13R-31L At DAL

Fri Aug 01, 2003 11:23 am

AA737:

Thanks for your memory. As I said, it's hard to take a drive through that area now and imagine it as a trendy place to live. I agree though, that there are gorgeous areas just to the east - the Park Cities.

Those are also the folks making the most ruckus about noise at DAL, even though aircraft aren't routed anywhere near their homes. The people in the Oak Lawn/Maple Lawn/Bachman areas don't seem to care that much, probably because they're lower middle class and are too busy working and raising families to complain.

How I would love to go back in time to 1973 and stand on DAL's observation deck taking in the scenery, then take a drive around the perimeter and see the aircraft land and take off up close.