Delta777-XXX
Topic Author
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Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:58 am

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/0703/30atlname.html

http://www.macon.com/mld/telegraph/news/opinion/6420865.htm

This is the most outrageous thing I've ever heard. I am not racist at all and I have great respect for black people and Mayor Jackson.

The people pushing this forget that William Hartsfield is who set up the airport. It was he that made it a huge success. He was mayor for 20 years! What does Mayor Jackson have to do with the airport and why should it be renamed after him just because he's black? The airport has been known as "Hartsfield" for over 40 years, why would they just change it?  Sad Is there anything that the public can do to stop this?

Any thoughts?


Hank
 
luv2fly
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:01 am

It should remain the same name as it is now. Name something else after the departed Mayor.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:04 am

Come on now people, Atlanta HartsFIELD. Its just so right...
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
Adam T.
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:06 am

Well...just from reading that article from the Atlanta Journal Constitution, I can say that they should keep Hartsfield the same. It sounds like this Hartsfield guy basically help put ATL on the map, is that right?
Anyway, as Luv2Fly said, name something else after the departed mayor, perhaps a new building, park, etc.
I'd like to hear some opinions from people that live in the Atlanta area, as i'm not too familiar with the history of ATL.
Thanks,
Adam  Smile
 
Matt D
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:07 am

It's just a friggin' NAME people.

But if the Blacks feel that strongly about it, let THEM pay to repaint all of the signage in and around the airport, plus to IATA, and whatever other agencies that would have to cope with the change.

Then let's see how important it is.

 
MCOtoATL
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:08 am

The fact that Maynard Jackson is black is irrelevant to this situation. I agree that the name should remain Hartsfield. But the fact is that Mayor Jackson is credited with transforming Atlanta into the major metropolitan city that it is, and he was behind much of the airport expansion and many people agree that the airport is what it is today because of his influence.
 
eerlijkflyer
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:26 am

HeART'sFIELD  Big grin

I am sure that whichever decision is made, there will be an ultimate reason for.
 
morecy
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:31 am

I'm sure Jackson was a great guy... so re-name "Main Street" or some building/facility/stadium in his honour. Even though it's just the airport's name, by changing it, you're basically rescinding an honour originally given to Hartsfield. Doesn't seem right to me.
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 5:27 am

Why not rename, say, the international concourse E?
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
dutchjet
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 5:28 am

If Hartsfield is renamed, it should be called DELTA AIRPORT......while the city of Atlanta has grown and certainly represents the New South, the main reason for ATL's huge growth is Delta Airlines and its decision, many years ago, to make ATL the first real connecting hub in the US. DL's determination to expand its operations at ATL, and DL's desire to offer nonstop service out of ATL to almost every domestic city and many, many international destinations around the globe have made ATL the airport that it is today.
 
Pendrilsaint
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 5:28 am

Hmmm , they could rename piedmont park in Jackon's honor. But renaming an airport already named for a great mayor is just crazy. I can understand renaming Newark which is just a generic city name, but taking someone else's name off seems mean spirited.
 
fspilot747
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 5:37 am

How silly.

(filler)

FSP
 
777guy
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 6:02 am

Ever since Maynard first was mayor there has been a constant effort to rename every street and building in Atlanta after black people. It costs a lot of money for stationary and other printed items that businesses have to pay for not the mention of cost to tax payers for new signs. This also causes confusion because when you drive downtown now you have to buy new street maps because names of streets have changed.
The right thing to do is leave Mayor Hartsfield's name as it is. If they really want to honor Maynard then maybe they could name the zoo downtown after him.
 
exusair
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 6:51 am

I like the comment about ATL airport being the way it is today because of Maynard Jacksons influence. You couldn't be more right.

Hartsfield is a great big PIGGY bank that is outwardly corrupt. If any of you have eaten at TGI Fridays on Concourse B, you have supported the Maynard Jackson estate. How did Jackson get the TGI Fridays concession? Well the concessions contracts went out to "disenfranchised minorities" exclusively. It was designed to help low to mid income minorities get airport concessions contracts. Mr. Jackson, at the time a multimillionaire, obtained a contract for TGI Fridays under these auspices.

Numerous other contractors, including the parking concessionaires and the providors of the fill dirt for the 5th runway have contributed significantly to the reelection slush funds of the mayors following Mr. Jackson, including the now departed Bill Campbell who was receiving these reelection funds, even though he was INELLIGIBLE for reelection.

If anything should be named after Mr. Jackson, it should be the mens sh..ter on B- Concourse.

As a resident of the City of Atlanta, the meddling of the City Concil and the desire to rename the airport is turning into a race battle. it is compete and utter nonsense that need to stop. The inept city council members, many of which are corrupt and one of which has been brought up on drug charges (Ralph Abernathy III) will be canned as the demographics of the city are beginning to skew towards a more conservative (republican) base.

I have observed the current mayor, Shirley Franklin endeaver to clean up the years of ineptitude and corruption at City Hall, but all political favors have been called in for this issue and fear that she may be placed in a position she doesn't want ot be in and may lose some political capital as a result.

As for who gets to pay for the resignage and expense of renaming the field. the taxpayers get to foot the bill.
 
srbmod
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 6:54 am

I personally think that if they are going to change the name of the airport, then the airport should be renamed to one of the following:

Atlanta International Airport (Actually the old name before Hartsfield)
Candler International Airport (The first name of the airport was Candler Field)
James E. Carter International Airport

The name should remain Hartsfield Atlanta International Airport. The current Midfield Complex was already in the early stages of being built at the time Maynard Jackson became mayorso he really had no real input into what became the current facility. It was Mayor Jackson who required minority participation in the construction of the new complex, and in the retail businesses at the airport. Some of the policies he forced on the airport he later benefited from, after his third term, he became a partner in a company that now owns several food outlets in the airport. Just because he was mayor when the current facility opened does not automatically mean he deserves to have his name on the airport. William Berry Hartsfield is who had the foresight to get Atlanta into the commerical airport business back when he was just an Alderman, and Asa Candler's former racetrack near Hapeville became the world's busiest airport, mainly because of Mayor Hartsfield.
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 7:04 am

I agree, I think it should remain William B. Hartsfield International Airport. It was WBH who turned a small cornstrip into what is the #2 runway. He made the biggest impact on that airport. I am in no way racist, but I do not feel like, just because these people want it, that it should be renamed Jackson International Airport. It just doesn't have the same ring to it.
Puhdiddle
 
nonrevman
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 8:09 am

Let's see: We have a Jackson Hole, WY, a Jackson, MS, a Jacksonville, FL, and a Jacksonville, NC. Do we really need another "Jackson" airport? I can see the frustration it would create for reservations agents. I am going to laugh when I here a trip report about someone who thought they were going to Atlanta and wound up in Mississippi.

Since the name for ATL is already taken, it seems ovbious that it should not be renamed.
 
luisca
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 10:27 am

I may be flamed, but dont take this as a racist comment. i myself am not white, but i have a felling that in the US the new victims of racism are the white majority, things like affirmative action only increase the line that separates them, the NAACP is in my opinion a very racist organazation, becouse they constantly whant the rights of white people to be put after the ones of black people. Hartsfield was a good mayor, he promoted ATL and turned it into what it is, Jackson was a good mayor to, but sorry, the airport is taken, whay should they violate hartsfield´s right to be honored in favor of Jackson, isnt their equallity in the US. so i am defenatly against this.

just my 2 cents
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
tu154m
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 10:48 am

It's probably already done. Those of you who live in/around this great hole known as Atlanta know that. There is not one thing anyone can do about it. This whole area is a JOKE. The urban planning that went into Atlanta could have been done by toddlers.(Even a toddler could design a more effecient/user accesable train system than MARTA.........North, South, East West in the perimeter.......give me a break!!!). Those with their hands in other people's pockets keep digging deeper and screaming louder that they are being overlooked. Look how the AJC(the local paper) treats DL, the STATE's largest employer!!!! Just my 2 cents.
S
CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 11:52 am

Luisca, Thank you. You took the words right out of my mouth, you hit the nail smack dab on the head.

Tu154M, explain what you mean about how AJC treats DL.
Puhdiddle
 
jeffie813
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:02 pm

i fly into atlanta all the time. i think i'm going to present a resolution to the city council of atlanta to rename the airport "jeff-atlanta international airport"

now that sounds good.
 
elwood64151
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 1:16 pm

Dutchjet:

Atlanta isn't part of the "New South". It's now a northern city who's location is an accident of geography.

Tu154m:

At least Atlanta has MARTA. Many other major American cities have nothing of the kind. And MARTA is slowly being expanded. Were it not for the idiots in Gwinette County (and I used to live there, so I can say this), it would have been extended beyond the perimiter long ago.

As for the airport being renamed: Well, it happens frequently enough. Louis Armstrong recently was honored with being the new name for MSY, even though Moisant had built the original strip (which is why it's MSY, not ORL or NOL or NOR, etc). I don't like it myself, but I'm not a Georgia resident, anymore (and haven't been for quite awhile). If they're going to rename it, they will, and there's nothing any of us can do about it, unless we live in Atlanta...

Just as long as they don't rename MCI "Emmanuel Cleaver International Airport"! No one who tells a third of his constituency to "Shut up and pay your taxes," should ever be honored with an airport's name. Especially if the airport is in the same region he told off...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
caetravlr
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Fri Aug 01, 2003 9:13 pm

I totally agree. As a former GA resident who still considers it home, I hate to see this. The same groups are trying to do the same types of things here in South Carolina. I believe that having the airport named in honor of the man who made it what it is, William B. Hartsfield, was the right thing to do. To change it now at the whim of a few people, would be a great injustice. I am not racist at all, but echo Luisca's comments. The tides of the discrimination are turning.

Anyway, I hope the airport name remains the same. However, I am not holding out much hope.
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
 
Delta777-XXX
Topic Author
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 9:14 am

The latest..

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/0803/02maynard.html



Everything has to be racial.. it makes me sick.

Hank
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 9:22 am

Even Jackson's widow, Valerie, has vowed to see that the airport bears her husband's name.

I am going to vow that the name remains William B. Hartsfield. There, does that change anything. NO!!!!
Puhdiddle
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 9:32 am

"I am going to laugh when I here a trip report about someone who thought they were going to Atlanta and wound up in Mississippi."

I am going to laugh when the person goes THROUGH Atlanta and ends up in Mississippi!!!!

"Atlanta isn't part of the "New South". It's now a northern city who's location is an accident of geography."

It hasn't changed much since you lived here or its changed for the worse, because i totally disagree.
There are parts of Atlanta that are northern, but believe me, there are a TON of red necks and baptists and other southern stereotypes and i get annoyed at it. I absolutly hate those kinds of people. For instance, one of my Jewish friends got suspended from school after getting into a fight with a racist redneck who called him a chicken Jew and more harsh stuff that doesn't bear repeating.

Every other public figure here has something named after him, so I do want them to name something after Jackson. I say maybe the new terminal or one of the concourses, like at LAX. I mean, even Ralph David Abernathy has I-20 named after him!

Here are some places to rename:
Centenial Olympic PArk- Maynard Jackson Olympic Park
Zoo Atlanta- Zoo Jackson (ok maybe not Big grin Big grin)
Peidmont Park- Maynard Jackson Memorial Park
Fulton County (Charlie Brown)-Maynard Jackson Memorial Airfield
Fulton County- Maynard Jackson County (coould happen!)
City Hall- Maynard Jackson City Hall.
GA 400- Maynard Jackson Freeway
I 75/I 85- " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " "

What do you thinnk?
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
tu154m
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 1:52 pm

BR715.....The Atlanta Journal Constitution is constantly putting down DL. I know when DL was trying to lease the old EA hangar, the city elders wanted to up the rent by HUGE sums and sign a short term(by airport standards) lease. They pretty much make DL out to be the bad guys all the time. Almost sounds as if a disgruntled DL employee is writing for them!!!!!
Elwood........I know what you mean about MARTA and Gwinnett Co. Same with Clayton, Coweta, Henry and Fayette. The argument I've heard is that none of the counties want the urban sprawl. I often wonder how these people commute? AND.......where I can purchase some of the blinders they have been wearing!!!!!
Maybe the Maynard Jackson Memorial I Did Everything for ATL Store???
S
CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
 
A330_DTW
Posts: 357
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:44 pm

If it's renamed after a black person, then it's reverse discrimination. If it's kept as Hartsfield, it's discrimination against blacks.

Why not name it something inanimate like one of the poster suggested, "Atlanta International Airport"? That way no one is offended.
 
milesrich
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:48 pm

This week's Atlanta City Council Meeting and the statements of the outspoken African American constituents serve to show that racism is not just a "white" thing. Telling Black Councilmen to "do the right thing," and "remember who put you here," is blatant black racism. The idea of renaming Hartsfield Airport for Maynard Jackson should be an "in poor taste" racial joke, akin to the one about new national holidays that went around when another Jackson, Jesse, was running for President. Maynard Jackson presided over the building of a new terminal building, but Hartsfield's place as the world's busiest or second busiest airport was established when Maynard, as a current Fulton County Judge put it, was "up in Cleveland passin." The Delta and Eastern Hubs made Hartsfield the hub of air transportation in the Southeast, long before Maynard even entered politics. The expression, “even to die in the South, you have to change planes in Atlanta,” was coined when Ivan Allen was mayor. If we name the airport Jackson International, will that be for Bo, Michael, Reggie, Jesse, or Hizzoner (Maynard). What Maynard did for Hartsfield was make it the World's most corrupt airport, where people, unless they belonged to a certain minority group, were barred from doing business. As I was told back in 1989 when I tried to sell new Chryslers and Plymouths to the local rent a car franchises at absolutely dead cost, in order to appease Chrysler Corporation, "unless you are black, or have a black partner, we won't buy from you;" and so they didn't. They purchased all of their "Mopars" from a minority dealer in Charlotte, NC.

Let us not forget the airport scandals of the late1980's, early 1990's, when Dan Paradies was sent to prison for paying bribes to Atlanta Airport officials and city council members for the “privilege” to have concessions in the airport. In that investigation, there were tapes showing Marvin Arrington, now a Fulton County Judge, accepting a bag of money. He is black and was not prosecuted. He claimed the money in the bag was a campaign contribution.

But the most repugnant thing about this sordid ordeal, is that Maynard’s widow is now claiming her late husband’s greatest desire was to have the name of the airport changed to his. What a crock!

Bill Hartsfield was progressive mayor who established Atlanta as a city, “too busy to hate.” When Bull Connor was turning fire hoses on blacks, Atlanta was peaceably integrating its restaurants, etc. Hartsfield was, as the AJC headlined upon Maynard’s death, “A LION OF A MAN.” Maynard Jackson was a glutton, with food and with power. He turned a well run city into a cesspool of corrupt patronage.

Let’s name the Georgia Dome for Maynard. It’s shape reminds me of Maynard’s gut.

Better yet, a fitting tribute to Jackson would be to name the food court in Underground Atlanta for him, along with every food concession at Turner Field. Maynard never missed a trip to trough. And now his fellow pigs are following him there.
 
caribb
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Mon Aug 04, 2003 12:26 am

I live in Montreal where over the past 20 years some major English street names long established have been replaced with French names honoring French speaking people from history. Of course Anglos (English) accused French Quebec of deliberately erasing English history from Montreal and French people denounced that claiming the city must better reflect it's French past especially at a time when a minority of English dominated the city.. So it doesn't have to necessarily be a racial issue but when you live with two large communities of people these sorts of issues eventually come up.. often they seem silly especially to outsiders but are taken to heart by both sides since there always is deeper meaning behind it all for each group concerned. So in the end it is important because it honors the past and lets people move forward.

With this background I came to the conclusion that once someone is honored by having a street, building, park, airport or what ever named after them then it should be left as is. It was an honor bestowed on them by the people of their time. The only exception would be if that person was someone really odios to a large percentage of the local population.. so renaming Sadaam Airport in Baghdad would likely be a good thing as so many other places carry his name and he was not well liked by most people in that city. An airport however is usually a one of a kind place and it would take a lot for me to agree to see any airport renamed and even if the person has many things named after him or her I'd leave the airport as the very last honorable that I would change in their case. Naming an Airport after someone is one of the biggest honors any city can give to someone from their past and it shouldn't be taken lightly or changed at whim. The new name would have to reflect someone of a higher stature or of higher significance for the item/place being renamed.

We in Montreal had briefly discussed renaming Dorval Airport (currently named after the town of Dorval where the airport is situated) to Pierre Elliot Trudeau international Airport (after a former Prime Minister of Canada born and raised in Montreal) but the conflict this PM had with French Quebec versus the general praise he gets from English Canada means it will likely never happen in the short to medium term because he is too controversial to many if not most Montrealers. In short most names have been left as they are and new honors are mostly reflect our French past with English names taken honors where English is large in numbers. A compromise.

Perhaps other solutions for ATL could be found.

1. Renaming the terminal building (or internartional Concourse as someone mentioned)
2. Not that I would agree as explained above but perhaps finding a compromise and just calling in Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport if the people of Atlanta really feel strongly about this.
3. Doing something really novel and renaming a runway after him.. "you are about to take off from (or land on) the Maynard Jackson runway at Atlanta's Heartsfield International Airport".. perhaps eventually naming every runway after someone but keeping the techincal name for airport purposes and making it more interesting for passengers coming and going from that airport. (I don't know much about Manyard Jackson (or Heartsfield) so perhaps this is too minor a tribute, but it's an idea for the future)


[Edited 2003-08-03 17:51:06]
 
777guy
Posts: 476
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Mon Aug 04, 2003 1:24 am

One thing occurs to me from reading many of the posts here is why do white people always feel the need to say "I am not a racist". Good heavens folks just because you are a certain race and have an opinion does not automatically make you a racist. I for one owe nobody an apology for my views!
 
luisca
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:21 am

777guy
becouse when ever anybody that is white or christian makes a coment concerning something slightly related to race, they are immediatly called racist by the others. just think what would happen if you formed the "white defense group" to defend the rights of white people from abuse, it would immediatly be called racist, then why is it ok to form the "black defense group"?
this is the problem in the USA, too much double standart, the fact remanis that racism whas a thing of the past in the US, and today, althoug it still does happen, it is very, very very rare, so i dont se the need for these black racist organazations.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
milesrich
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Mon Aug 04, 2003 11:50 am

To those who are not familiar with Bill Hartsfield or Maynard Jackson

William B. Hartsfield was the mayor of Atlanta from 1936 to 1961, except for a one plus year period in 1941-42, and is considered the father of aviation here in Atlanta. He built the airport from a small Candler Field into the largest hub airport in the South. He encouraged Delta to move its headquarters from Monroe, LA to Atlanta, and presided over the construction of the large Terminal Building opened in 1961. That terminal was replaced by the Mid Field Terminal now in use; but Delta and Eastern established their hubs in Atlanta long before the Midfield Terminal was built. The midfield terminal was opened after Maynard Jackson's second term as Mayor was over but construction started while he was mayor; however the planning for the midfield terminals started while Sam Massell was mayor. Jackson turned the construction and operation of Hartsfield into one big affirmative action program where you had to be Black to do business. This, by the way, did not help any poor people, but lined the pockets of a few well to do African Americans, including Jackson. Jackson was out of the Mayor's office for 8 years from 1981-89, (Andy Young was mayor, remember he got canned from the Carter Administration for not following the instructions of the State Dept. when he was Ambassador to the UN, and he now wants to run for the Senate for Zell Miller's seat at age 71) when he was elected to a third term. During his last term, the operation of the airport was a cesspool of graft. It became a jobs program for minorities, and a place where payoffs, high prices, and lousy food were the rule. The US Justice Dept. investigated and prosecuted a couple of city councilmen, and Dan Paradies, who owns the Paradies Airport Shops, no longer in Atlanta, by the way. Paradies, a local white businessman who has airport shops all over the country, is the brother in law of Marvin Shoob, a US District Court Judge, and an uncle to Wendy Shoob, a Fulton County Superior Court Judge. Dan was sent to Federal Prison, at age 75 or so for making payoffs to the council members. He didn't make those payoffs because he wanted to, he made them because that is the way you had to do business with Maynard and Company. I know. I was a white businessman, and I was approached and solicited for bribes to do business with the City of Atlanta.
If you care to read how the program worked, follow this link to the case of the United States v. Paradies.
Here is the link to the Appellate Case. http://www.law.emory.edu/11circuit/sept96/94-8485.opa.html
The Statement of Facts is very illustrative of how Maynard ran the Airport.
After they kicked Dan Paradies out of the airport, guess who got the TGIF Fridays franchise for the terminal, you guessed it, old Maynard. Maynard's successor, Bill Campbell, is currently under a Federal Corruption Probe. Lots of Maynard's and Bill's associates have been prosecuted or pled guilty. Bill fled to Florida, and Maynard is dead. Now his widow wants the Airport named after her. She might just get her way, and if she does, there will hell to pay eventually. Can you imagine what would happen if whites again become the majority in the City of Atlanta and start changing the names of everything named after blacks?



 
tu154m
Posts: 610
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RE: Atlanta's Hartsfield To Be Renamed?

Mon Aug 04, 2003 1:16 pm

Milesrich..............You not only hit the nail on the head, you pounded it into the board flush!!!!!!
S
CEOs should swim with cement flippers!

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